Auction House Shenanigans
Discussion
I have to agree with the 2 posts above. Either a trader has seen they were cheap, bought them and punted them into the next sale in search of a quick profit(this happens quite a lot) or the auction house have done exactly that. That is morally wrong on their part.
If YOU requested a reserve and they sold the items below that then again, they shouldn't be doing that. Auctioneers discretion is one thing but to sell them way below the reserve is just plain wrong. They SHOULD make up the difference between the sale price and the reserve. We(as in most auctioneers) will use discretion of 10%(max) of the reserve/valuation. It's really not difficult to pick up a phone and ask if you will accept the bid.
I'd put it down to experience and move on as they sound as if they just won't give a s
t.
We deal a lot with bereavement/house clearances/solicitors, it's difficult enough for families without these choppers making it even more difficult.
I do hope you can sort it with them.
If YOU requested a reserve and they sold the items below that then again, they shouldn't be doing that. Auctioneers discretion is one thing but to sell them way below the reserve is just plain wrong. They SHOULD make up the difference between the sale price and the reserve. We(as in most auctioneers) will use discretion of 10%(max) of the reserve/valuation. It's really not difficult to pick up a phone and ask if you will accept the bid.
I'd put it down to experience and move on as they sound as if they just won't give a s
t.We deal a lot with bereavement/house clearances/solicitors, it's difficult enough for families without these choppers making it even more difficult.
I do hope you can sort it with them.
There are just too many inconsistencies that makes it all seem shady.
I watched the auction live and made notes of the winning bids for each lot. One lot, A, ended with a winning bid of £10 on The Saleroom. The other, B, (pictured earlier) was 'Passed'.
When I got the post sales form it said A sold for £5 and B sold for £5. I queried this as well and was told lot A was split into two lots (A and B) and together they sold for £5 making up £10. This sounds like BS because they're clearly two separate lots.
That along with the discrepancy with the Royal Crown Derby plates that I saw go for £28 only to be told it was £10 stinks.
I watched the auction live and made notes of the winning bids for each lot. One lot, A, ended with a winning bid of £10 on The Saleroom. The other, B, (pictured earlier) was 'Passed'.
When I got the post sales form it said A sold for £5 and B sold for £5. I queried this as well and was told lot A was split into two lots (A and B) and together they sold for £5 making up £10. This sounds like BS because they're clearly two separate lots.
That along with the discrepancy with the Royal Crown Derby plates that I saw go for £28 only to be told it was £10 stinks.
Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 28th February 14:20
I agree, it all smells pretty bad. But proof is going to be very hard to come by. If the AH is dodgy, then they're operating a massive scam - say the plates genuinely sold for £28 but they declare £10 to you. The AH will get:
- £4 + £1.50 in fees from you
- £18 difference between what the punter paid and what they gave you
- £5.60 in buyer's premium from the punter
i.e. you get £4.50 and they get £29.10!
But that's just how it *could* have worked. Only the AH really knows and if they are dodgy then you've got very little chance of any redress.
It probably sticks in the throat for you, but at least the actual amounts are relatively small.
The local papers may be interested in your story, particularly if you can get others to come forward.
- £4 + £1.50 in fees from you
- £18 difference between what the punter paid and what they gave you
- £5.60 in buyer's premium from the punter
i.e. you get £4.50 and they get £29.10!
But that's just how it *could* have worked. Only the AH really knows and if they are dodgy then you've got very little chance of any redress.
It probably sticks in the throat for you, but at least the actual amounts are relatively small.
The local papers may be interested in your story, particularly if you can get others to come forward.
The BBC love auction shows - think Flog it, antiques road trip, bargain hunt to name a few.
Perhaps try and contact one of their 'experts' and ask them their advice?
The BBC do their best to encourage us to try out auction houses so they could be interested in a 'watchdog' type of way.
Perhaps try and contact one of their 'experts' and ask them their advice?
The BBC do their best to encourage us to try out auction houses so they could be interested in a 'watchdog' type of way.
AdamIndy, do you have much experience of The Saleroom?
I'm looking back at the catalogue for the previous auction in Jan to check the hammer price for my lots that sold and all bar two of them are not showing up? The lot numbers just jump up massively. Would there be any particular reason for this?
I'm looking back at the catalogue for the previous auction in Jan to check the hammer price for my lots that sold and all bar two of them are not showing up? The lot numbers just jump up massively. Would there be any particular reason for this?
I've just checked a few auctions on The Saleroom in which I participated, and all the lot numbers are still there.
So it's not ubiquitous that lots would go missing from the site after the auction has closed. I suspect the typical auction house wouldn't be bothered, they'd be planning the next auction not tidying up old listings from the previous one.
So it's not ubiquitous that lots would go missing from the site after the auction has closed. I suspect the typical auction house wouldn't be bothered, they'd be planning the next auction not tidying up old listings from the previous one.
I don't know, I've been watching the auction and when items like that with a bid already on them comes up I've heard him say these are online bids and that's where the bidding then starts.
Also, I had someone else email them about those items and surprise surprise, they have reserves on them this time.
Also, I had someone else email them about those items and surprise surprise, they have reserves on them this time.
Have you taken up the issue with the lack of reserve on your sale yet?
You are possibly reading too much into the sale price disparity from this sale to the previous; if there was someone out there who wanted them last time, they would have bought them. Sometimes it just goes that way; this time concession bids have already been received up to £160 (which means that there are at least 2 people interested).
You won't get any information from the AH now about who owns the vases - if they're legit then they won't reveal a third party and if they're crooked they won't reveal themselves! Your only course, in likelihood, is to chase them for the reserve price that they didn't apply and get your money.
You are possibly reading too much into the sale price disparity from this sale to the previous; if there was someone out there who wanted them last time, they would have bought them. Sometimes it just goes that way; this time concession bids have already been received up to £160 (which means that there are at least 2 people interested).
You won't get any information from the AH now about who owns the vases - if they're legit then they won't reveal a third party and if they're crooked they won't reveal themselves! Your only course, in likelihood, is to chase them for the reserve price that they didn't apply and get your money.
PhilboSE said:
Have you taken up the issue with the lack of reserve on your sale yet?
You are possibly reading too much into the sale price disparity from this sale to the previous; if there was someone out there who wanted them last time, they would have bought them. Sometimes it just goes that way; this time concession bids have already been received up to £160 (which means that there are at least 2 people interested).
You won't get any information from the AH now about who owns the vases - if they're legit then they won't reveal a third party and if they're crooked they won't reveal themselves! Your only course, in likelihood, is to chase them for the reserve price that they didn't apply and get your money.
Not yet, I'm planning to.You are possibly reading too much into the sale price disparity from this sale to the previous; if there was someone out there who wanted them last time, they would have bought them. Sometimes it just goes that way; this time concession bids have already been received up to £160 (which means that there are at least 2 people interested).
You won't get any information from the AH now about who owns the vases - if they're legit then they won't reveal a third party and if they're crooked they won't reveal themselves! Your only course, in likelihood, is to chase them for the reserve price that they didn't apply and get your money.
And you're right, the problem is those specific lots from the very first auction are not available to view on The Saleroom so I cannot see if they actually sold and whether the price they supposedly sold for is correct. By comparison, certain lots in Feb's auction that are showing as 'Passed' (unsold) on The Saleroom I've been told did actually sell. If they didn't sell during the auction then they must have sold after the auction ended which raises the question of who bought those lots. Was it a genuine buyer or did the AH just decide "yeah we'll have those" and pull a token figure out of their ass?
I can't prove it but what I suspect happens is the AH just 'buy' peoples lots for peanuts if they don't sell, e.g.
If I have 10 lots and they don't sell, I owe the AH £40 in lotting fees, they'd then have to invoice me for that money as per any other business.
Instead what I suspect happens is they say "yeah they sold for £5 each" for a total of £50 which after fees and commission that leaves you, the seller, about £1. Then they stick those items back in their auction for £10-£15 each until they sell, after all it costs them nothing.
I'm in the process of typing them an email but I've noticed something that seems a bit coincidental.
As I watched Feb's auction on The Saleroom I made a note of the items that sold and their hammer price and also which items didn't sell. As previously mentioned, there was then a number of discrepancies between my list and their list of items.
My list totaled £132 made up of 7 sold lots and 6 unsold lots.
Their list (the one with lower hammer prices and a number of unsold lots that apparently sold) totaled £129, consisting of 10 sold lots and 3 unsold lots.
That seems a bit convenient.
As I watched Feb's auction on The Saleroom I made a note of the items that sold and their hammer price and also which items didn't sell. As previously mentioned, there was then a number of discrepancies between my list and their list of items.
My list totaled £132 made up of 7 sold lots and 6 unsold lots.
Their list (the one with lower hammer prices and a number of unsold lots that apparently sold) totaled £129, consisting of 10 sold lots and 3 unsold lots.
That seems a bit convenient.
Edited by Oakey on Friday 3rd March 18:35
Good question, not sure yet. If they've acted fraudulently then that's surely a police matter? I only caught this discrepancy because I was watching the auction online and making notes, I did not have the foresight to do that for the very first auction which raises the question of what discrepancies may have occurred during that auction, I only have their word those lots sold for what they claim they did. How many other issues like this have occurred I wonder?
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff