Karate experts - are they really 'hard'?
Discussion
dazzaturbo said:
My experience of this sort of thing through training and sparing hard with a genuinely tough lad and training at a well regarded gym with an ex ufc fighter as the instructor is that most things will help as long as it's practiced in a live situation
As long as you spar so your used to punches/kicks/takedowns coming is ALWAYS an advantage
My thoughts on most martial arts I can think of
Muay Thai- probably the most effective in the real world
Boxing- also very effective
Karate- unless it's the full contact type like Steven Thompson then useless
Bjj- if there is only one person involved this is VERY effective (if you've ever rolled with someone good you'd understand)
Aikido- complete waste of time
Krav Maga- effective but doing some of the moves your probably looking at jail time
Overall they should all help because you tend to be a bit fitter than the average man
I'd agree with that. As long as you spar so your used to punches/kicks/takedowns coming is ALWAYS an advantage
My thoughts on most martial arts I can think of
Muay Thai- probably the most effective in the real world
Boxing- also very effective
Karate- unless it's the full contact type like Steven Thompson then useless
Bjj- if there is only one person involved this is VERY effective (if you've ever rolled with someone good you'd understand)
Aikido- complete waste of time
Krav Maga- effective but doing some of the moves your probably looking at jail time
Overall they should all help because you tend to be a bit fitter than the average man
Conditioning (so you keep a clearer head), coordination (so you don't windmill), fitness (if it lasts that long) and technical knowledge (if you have the other elements and want to lock them up).
BJJ is popular with some younger bouncers I know, going to ground is pretty common in brawling I guess.
KM - first move is not to be there in the first place and next is to run away; after that it gets a bit ruthless.
andy_s said:
dazzaturbo said:
My experience of this sort of thing through training and sparing hard with a genuinely tough lad and training at a well regarded gym with an ex ufc fighter as the instructor is that most things will help as long as it's practiced in a live situation
As long as you spar so your used to punches/kicks/takedowns coming is ALWAYS an advantage
My thoughts on most martial arts I can think of
Muay Thai- probably the most effective in the real world
Boxing- also very effective
Karate- unless it's the full contact type like Steven Thompson then useless
Bjj- if there is only one person involved this is VERY effective (if you've ever rolled with someone good you'd understand)
Aikido- complete waste of time
Krav Maga- effective but doing some of the moves your probably looking at jail time
Overall they should all help because you tend to be a bit fitter than the average man
I'd agree with that. As long as you spar so your used to punches/kicks/takedowns coming is ALWAYS an advantage
My thoughts on most martial arts I can think of
Muay Thai- probably the most effective in the real world
Boxing- also very effective
Karate- unless it's the full contact type like Steven Thompson then useless
Bjj- if there is only one person involved this is VERY effective (if you've ever rolled with someone good you'd understand)
Aikido- complete waste of time
Krav Maga- effective but doing some of the moves your probably looking at jail time
Overall they should all help because you tend to be a bit fitter than the average man
Conditioning (so you keep a clearer head), coordination (so you don't windmill), fitness (if it lasts that long) and technical knowledge (if you have the other elements and want to lock them up).
BJJ is popular with some younger bouncers I know, going to ground is pretty common in brawling I guess.
KM - first move is not to be there in the first place and next is to run away; after that it gets a bit ruthless.
A friend of mine who is pretty handy on the ground had a row with his neighbors one of the lads threw a punch and my mate took him down but was then stamped on quite mercilessly by one of his friends/brothers/cousins.
Anyway he was in hospital for 2 nights so not effective in that situation.
But I suppose most bouncers have got other bouncers round them
Amirhussain said:
turbobloke said:
Talking of videos, this infamous example has probably been posted earlier but never mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE2PxkSJW7M
Haha I remember that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE2PxkSJW7M
dazzaturbo said:
My thoughts on most martial arts I can think of
Aikido- complete waste of time
Being fitter and becoming familiar with being attacked...so nothing is completely useless / a complete waste of time, as you already indicated. Almost complete, maybe! Aikido- complete waste of time
The Management at a martial arts open evening with demo classes many years ago told me that classical Aikido was off the menu. They offered Aikido Te, and even then they strongly advised those who took the option to roll up for additional input, street fighting lessons by any other name.
It was an educational experience over the years. At one time I knew where to strike and the technique to use in order to put the blade of a sword through two major arteries, the windpipe and spinal cord in one blow, all without completely severing the head though allegedly it would droop quite a bit - this training was also pointless in real world application terms but they still taught it and why not. I would say the same of classical Aikido, it's worthwhile in its own right for those interested in the art.
These days I get out of breath reading about martial arts on PH, though as some posts are painful to read the prep is still useful.
andy_s said:
dazzaturbo said:
My experience of this sort of thing through training and sparing hard with a genuinely tough lad and training at a well regarded gym with an ex ufc fighter as the instructor is that most things will help as long as it's practiced in a live situation
As long as you spar so your used to punches/kicks/takedowns coming is ALWAYS an advantage
My thoughts on most martial arts I can think of
Muay Thai- probably the most effective in the real world
Boxing- also very effective
Karate- unless it's the full contact type like Steven Thompson then useless
Bjj- if there is only one person involved this is VERY effective (if you've ever rolled with someone good you'd understand)
Aikido- complete waste of time
Krav Maga- effective but doing some of the moves your probably looking at jail time
Overall they should all help because you tend to be a bit fitter than the average man
I'd agree with that. As long as you spar so your used to punches/kicks/takedowns coming is ALWAYS an advantage
My thoughts on most martial arts I can think of
Muay Thai- probably the most effective in the real world
Boxing- also very effective
Karate- unless it's the full contact type like Steven Thompson then useless
Bjj- if there is only one person involved this is VERY effective (if you've ever rolled with someone good you'd understand)
Aikido- complete waste of time
Krav Maga- effective but doing some of the moves your probably looking at jail time
Overall they should all help because you tend to be a bit fitter than the average man
Conditioning (so you keep a clearer head), coordination (so you don't windmill), fitness (if it lasts that long) and technical knowledge (if you have the other elements and want to lock them up).
BJJ is popular with some younger bouncers I know, going to ground is pretty common in brawling I guess.
KM - first move is not to be there in the first place and next is to run away; after that it gets a bit ruthless.
A friend of mine who is pretty handy on the ground had a row with his neighbors one of the lads threw a punch and my mate took him down but was then stamped on quite mercilessly by one of his friends/brothers/cousins.
Anyway he was in hospital for 2 nights so not effective in that situation.
But I suppose most bouncers have got other bouncers round them
dfen5 said:
Amirhussain said:
turbobloke said:
Talking of videos, this infamous example has probably been posted earlier but never mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE2PxkSJW7M
Haha I remember that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE2PxkSJW7M
turbobloke said:
At one time I knew where to strike and the technique to use in order to put the blade of a sword through two major arteries, the windpipe and spinal cord in one blow...
Whilst I guess technically impressive, I'm pretty sure if you manage to stick a sword anywhere into someone's neck, even if you don't get two arteries, the windpipe AND the spinal cord, they're not going to be coming back from that. The point being, whilst technical knowledge can be useful, if the other untrained guy has a weapon and you don't, which is quite probable in a random streetfight, then...
Centurion07 said:
turbobloke said:
At one time I knew where to strike and the technique to use in order to put the blade of a sword through two major arteries, the windpipe and spinal cord in one blow...
Whilst I guess technically impressive, I'm pretty sure if you manage to stick a sword anywhere into someone's neck, even if you don't get two arteries, the windpipe AND the spinal cord, they're not going to be coming back from that. The point being, whilst technical knowledge can be useful, if the other untrained guy has a weapon and you don't, which is quite probable in a random streetfight, then...
Centurion07 said:
turbobloke said:
At one time I knew where to strike and the technique to use in order to put the blade of a sword through two major arteries, the windpipe and spinal cord in one blow...
Whilst I guess technically impressive, I'm pretty sure if you manage to stick a sword anywhere into someone's neck, even if you don't get two arteries, the windpipe AND the spinal cord, they're not going to be coming back from that.
and as you will appreciate, I'm doing no more than retelling what I was told. No demonstration was ever arranged 
http://www.attackproof.com/the-myth-of-grappling-a...
Good article on sport vs real self defence techniques.
Good article on sport vs real self defence techniques.
My observations, success in streetfights is dependant on several factors :
1. The ability to take a punch and keep going. The only way to train this, is to be repeatedly punched in the head yourself. This is why any sport that incorporates boxing does very well.
2. Physical size and strength. Bigger is better, this is why weight classes exist.
3. Willingness to fight dirty and use weaponry.
4. Numbers - having mates to back you up.
5. Training at instinctual level for maximum application of violence.
Karate doesn't really help with any of the above.
Long term success in streetfights seems impossible. The hardmen of my youth have been variously :
Stabbed in the throat outside a nightclub after knocking someone out earlier.
Stabbed in the eyesocket, permanent paralysis, loss of sight and brain damage, requires a live in nurse.
Hit in the head with hammer, suffers epilepsy, lost job as machine operator and driving license due to this.
Surrounded and stamped on by several men, requires use of cane to walk now, constant pain in legs.
1. The ability to take a punch and keep going. The only way to train this, is to be repeatedly punched in the head yourself. This is why any sport that incorporates boxing does very well.
2. Physical size and strength. Bigger is better, this is why weight classes exist.
3. Willingness to fight dirty and use weaponry.
4. Numbers - having mates to back you up.
5. Training at instinctual level for maximum application of violence.
Karate doesn't really help with any of the above.
Long term success in streetfights seems impossible. The hardmen of my youth have been variously :
Stabbed in the throat outside a nightclub after knocking someone out earlier.
Stabbed in the eyesocket, permanent paralysis, loss of sight and brain damage, requires a live in nurse.
Hit in the head with hammer, suffers epilepsy, lost job as machine operator and driving license due to this.
Surrounded and stamped on by several men, requires use of cane to walk now, constant pain in legs.
Ayahuasca said:
http://www.attackproof.com/the-myth-of-grappling-a...
Good article on sport vs real self defence techniques.
It's really not. Good article on sport vs real self defence techniques.
It does ignore many many basic facts to promote its agenda. And I do zero ground fighting.
Liokault said:
Ayahuasca said:
http://www.attackproof.com/the-myth-of-grappling-a...
Good article on sport vs real self defence techniques.
It's really not. Good article on sport vs real self defence techniques.
It does ignore many many basic facts to promote its agenda. And I do zero ground fighting.
turbobloke said:
At one time I knew where to strike and the technique to use in order to put the blade of a sword through two major arteries, the windpipe and spinal cord in one blow, all without completely severing the head though allegedly it would droop quite a bit
As the picture of Turbo Bloke grows, it becomes more vivid.Keep posting. Don't hold back.
ExPat2B said:
My observations, success in streetfights is dependant on several factors :
1. The ability to take a punch and keep going. The only way to train this, is to be repeatedly punched in the head yourself. This is why any sport that incorporates boxing does very well.
2. Physical size and strength. Bigger is better, this is why weight classes exist.
3. Willingness to fight dirty and use weaponry.
4. Numbers - having mates to back you up.
5. Training at instinctual level for maximum application of violence.
Karate doesn't really help with any of the above.
Long term success in streetfights seems impossible. The hardmen of my youth have been variously :
Stabbed in the throat outside a nightclub after knocking someone out earlier.
Stabbed in the eyesocket, permanent paralysis, loss of sight and brain damage, requires a live in nurse.
Hit in the head with hammer, suffers epilepsy, lost job as machine operator and driving license due to this.
Surrounded and stamped on by several men, requires use of cane to walk now, constant pain in legs.
I think this about sums it all up for so called 'hard men who have something to prove' doesn't it?1. The ability to take a punch and keep going. The only way to train this, is to be repeatedly punched in the head yourself. This is why any sport that incorporates boxing does very well.
2. Physical size and strength. Bigger is better, this is why weight classes exist.
3. Willingness to fight dirty and use weaponry.
4. Numbers - having mates to back you up.
5. Training at instinctual level for maximum application of violence.
Karate doesn't really help with any of the above.
Long term success in streetfights seems impossible. The hardmen of my youth have been variously :
Stabbed in the throat outside a nightclub after knocking someone out earlier.
Stabbed in the eyesocket, permanent paralysis, loss of sight and brain damage, requires a live in nurse.
Hit in the head with hammer, suffers epilepsy, lost job as machine operator and driving license due to this.
Surrounded and stamped on by several men, requires use of cane to walk now, constant pain in legs.
I've known one from back in the day and this guy wasn't particularly hard. Reputation for mental? Sure. But hard? I don't think so even if he would square up to people in the pub who would likely kick the living s
t out the lad. Most just ignored him because he was mental Tim. His real name should hAve been Tim not so nice and very fking dim come to think about it. I used to do Olympic Style Wrestling as a kid, stood me in good stead back then, I was a smallish, chubby little fella with glasses and occasionally used to get picked on. But time after time I would end up in a scrap and more than likely win because I had a few moves, Half Nelson, Boston Crab etc that the other kid ding have.
It would usually end up with some kid pinned down whilst I did whatever I could to dissuade them from further persecution of me, one kid had been looking for me for ages at school (big two site comp) and I had heard this on the grapevine, my dad had bked him for flinging a Coke can or something in our garden and there had been an exchange which meant I was due a battering, last day of term before the summer holidays I went for a pee during art and there the appeared as I unzipped, told me his name and he had been looking for me, I was relieved as had heard the name and thought it was much bigger, scarier kid, this one did not trouble me at all, a right little run with a Flock of Seagulls quiff, Kappa Jacket and a stink of Bensons, he came for me, strode over and I dotn know how he thought it would go, but by then I had grown quite a bit and was a good six inches taller and probably 2 st heavier, long story short he was not a fighter, we ended up rolling round on the toilet floor, him with his face in the urinal, I am not prod to say but a condition of me releasing him from a fairly painful hold was him licking a urinal cake, a blue one, mmm, nice, but he did it.
So, moral is, avoid fighting at all costs, and anything you can do to gain an advantage it worthwhile, but dont rely on it and certainly dont rely on thinking you are "Hard", being fat, having tattoos, having a shaven head and drinking in ropey pubs doesnt make you hard, lots of fighting does, being in shape, being strong, being fast, being aggressive, being trained etc, most folk dont have a clue how it feels to punch someone or the weight of another human, I do and it makes me realise what a sack of soft ste I really am 
It would usually end up with some kid pinned down whilst I did whatever I could to dissuade them from further persecution of me, one kid had been looking for me for ages at school (big two site comp) and I had heard this on the grapevine, my dad had b
ked him for flinging a Coke can or something in our garden and there had been an exchange which meant I was due a battering, last day of term before the summer holidays I went for a pee during art and there the appeared as I unzipped, told me his name and he had been looking for me, I was relieved as had heard the name and thought it was much bigger, scarier kid, this one did not trouble me at all, a right little run with a Flock of Seagulls quiff, Kappa Jacket and a stink of Bensons, he came for me, strode over and I dotn know how he thought it would go, but by then I had grown quite a bit and was a good six inches taller and probably 2 st heavier, long story short he was not a fighter, we ended up rolling round on the toilet floor, him with his face in the urinal, I am not prod to say but a condition of me releasing him from a fairly painful hold was him licking a urinal cake, a blue one, mmm, nice, but he did it.So, moral is, avoid fighting at all costs, and anything you can do to gain an advantage it worthwhile, but dont rely on it and certainly dont rely on thinking you are "Hard", being fat, having tattoos, having a shaven head and drinking in ropey pubs doesnt make you hard, lots of fighting does, being in shape, being strong, being fast, being aggressive, being trained etc, most folk dont have a clue how it feels to punch someone or the weight of another human, I do and it makes me realise what a sack of soft s
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