Karate experts - are they really 'hard'?

Karate experts - are they really 'hard'?

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Disastrous

10,072 posts

216 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
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Does nobody else find anything a bit tragic about these middle aged blokes giving it big licks about "if you determine that a confrontation is inevitable, strike first, head or elbow and ensure a clean put down...blah blah"?

I've somehow managed to accrue years of drinking in city centers etc etc and never once found myself in that situation...

I wonder what the common link with all these blokes and street fights is...?

blindswelledrat

25,257 posts

231 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
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biglaugh
Well observed.
Also, the only time I have ever been involved in the eruption of fights is at 2 am in the morning at kicking out time when everybody is universally plastered.
In this situation graceful precise instantly-disabling strikes have never happened in history.
Instead, loads of shouting in deep voices, loads of windmilling and a great deal of pot luck as to where everyone's giant 3-mile punches land and the victor is not the best trained but the most sober.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
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Disastrous said:
Does nobody else find anything a bit tragic about these middle aged blokes giving it big licks about "if you determine that a confrontation is inevitable, strike first, head or elbow and ensure a clean put down...blah blah"?

I've somehow managed to accrue years of drinking in city centers etc etc and never once found myself in that situation...

I wonder what the common link with all these blokes and street fights is...?
I once had a ne'er do well try to stab me, and ended up fending off him and his mate, and all I was doing was going for a run !

Guvernator

13,104 posts

164 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
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Yep when I was younger I used to get into all sorts of trouble, probably because I was out drinking all the time in central London and I was too young, stupid and drunk to see situations developing. Now that I am older, wiser and usually more sober I don't get into that kind of mischief anymore.

However I will second what the poster above said, very occasionally, living in a big crowded city you can get into trouble through no real fault of your own. I've had a couple of confrontations which could have turned nasty, the last one because some inconsiderate toerag decided he was going to take a parking spot, despite him clearly seeing my OH patiently waiting for it for 5 minutes but who probably thought his "gansta" attitude would intimidate me into just letting him have it. Didn't really go beyond a big or argie bargie but looking back on it, it could have easily escalated or he could have had a knife and it would have ended very differently. At the time though I was livid and wasn't backing down, especially with my OH also involved.

That's the other thing, on my own I tend to ignore stuff but if someone is abusive to your OH which unfortunately happens sometimes, it's not so easy to just walk away.

Loyly

17,990 posts

158 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
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Ayahuasca said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgFNrVg-bL0

Compilation of various Martial Arts in real street fights.

On balance, it seems that MA training stands one in good stead (not so sure about the BJJ mind).
BJJ in a street fight is a great way to have your head used a trampoline. It's fantastic as long as your opponent sticks to the rules. No biting, no gouging, no mates jumping in, which makes it pretty crap for a fight against someone who wants to win at any cost.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
Loyly said:
Ayahuasca said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgFNrVg-bL0

Compilation of various Martial Arts in real street fights.

On balance, it seems that MA training stands one in good stead (not so sure about the BJJ mind).
BJJ in a street fight is a great way to have your head used a trampoline. It's fantastic as long as your opponent sticks to the rules. No biting, no gouging, no mates jumping in, which makes it pretty crap for a fight against someone who wants to win at any cost.
Given all the flak that Aikido gets, I was surprised at how successful the Aikido guy was at putting his opponent down.

King Herald

23,501 posts

215 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
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Disastrous said:
Does nobody else find anything a bit tragic about these middle aged blokes giving it big licks about "if you determine that a confrontation is inevitable, strike first, head or elbow and ensure a clean put down...blah blah"?

I've somehow managed to accrue years of drinking in city centers etc etc and never once found myself in that situation...

I wonder what the common link with all these blokes and street fights is...?
The only fights I have ever been in were basically of my own drunken making.

I have drunk in some rather hairy parts of England, and Europe, as well as the arm pit areas of Bangkok, Jakarta, Manila, Bombay and more than a few small third world sea ports the names of which I can't remember, or pronounce.... and nobody has ever come and picked a fight with. Not once.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Sunday 30th April 2017
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So at Friday's training I had to play the 'aggressor' with a knife (plastic..) and try to stab a more experienced student (of the female variety).

She damn near broke my arm before the blade got close to her.

I wasn't giving it 100%, but then neither was she, or she would have broken my arm








King Herald

23,501 posts

215 months

Sunday 30th April 2017
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Ayahuasca said:
So at Friday's training I had to play the 'aggressor' with a knife (plastic..) and try to stab a more experienced student (of the female variety).

She damn near broke my arm before the blade got close to her.

I wasn't giving it 100%, but then neither was she, or she would have broken my arm


Slash, don't stab. You never try to stab people in a knife fight. Doesn't matter how good their origami is, slashing violently back and forth across their best defence is literally unstoppable.

I used it thousands of times down the pub back in my glory days........ teacher




(I may have read all the above in a Jack Reacher book)

walsh

652 posts

158 months

Sunday 30th April 2017
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I'm not a scrapper myself, no delusions of hard man here. I do work as a bar manager currently, and witness/ help stop any drunken brawling on occasion.

My experience is really high end MA skills absolutely help, people who explain after the fact, one they have neutralised someone general with some arm lock etc. It's minimalist, they do the smallest amount of damage to remove the threat.

Every time someone starts there defence by explaining that they do whichever MA is about to be flattened, it needs to be a discipline you devote fair section of your life to, not something you did once a week for a 6 months. It doesn't help that these people tend to find themselves in scraps with people twice the size. I very firmly told one of these people this morning to sit out of the way, after he tapped me on the shoulder offering to help as I was escorting someone twice his size of the premises.

The there is the other side, the people with no MA or formal training, who wouldn't stop if you shot them. I'm not sure how MA would help you would deal with the 6 foot 6 20 stone meat head who will be head butting you, regardless if you break his arm on the way. Some people don't react how you are trained they will.

dfen5

2,397 posts

211 months

Sunday 30th April 2017
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King Herald said:
Slash, don't stab. You never try to stab people in a knife fight. Doesn't matter how good their origami is, slashing violently back and forth across their best defence is literally unstoppable.

I used it thousands of times down the pub back in my glory days........ teacher




(I may have read all the above in a Jack Reacher book)
And the reality of it is..(some bad language)..

https://youtu.be/E61jnJe_1SI

You never know how or when it's going to go down.

King Herald

23,501 posts

215 months

Sunday 30th April 2017
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dfen5 said:
And the reality of it is..(some bad language)..

https://youtu.be/E61jnJe_1SI

You never know how or when it's going to go down.
Exactly, if someone seriously wants to hurt you with a knife, not must threaten you, you have no defence.

entropy

5,403 posts

202 months

Thursday 11th May 2017
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Tai Chi master (yes, its a martial art as well) pummeled by MMA fighter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-3985337...




Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Thursday 11th May 2017
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entropy said:
Tai Chi master (yes, its a martial art as well) pummeled by MMA fighter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-3985337...
Look like an old, skinny Tai Chi master pummeled by young, heavy MMA fighter.

Not sure what this is supposed to prove?



FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Thursday 11th May 2017
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entropy said:
Tai Chi master (yes, its a martial art as well) pummeled by MMA fighter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-3985337...
There is so much wrong with this, but the old guy agreed to do it and obviously thought he had the skills to win... So 2001 really, has he not seen the early UFCs?

Martial arts that don't offer competitive sparring have valuable physical and mental benefits, as does hill walking, rowing or playing squash... But it doesn't make you able to compete at MMA, just as doing the 3peaks challenge won't make you better at basketball - they're not the same thing, and if this delusional old man doesn't see that he needs to go back to white belt - as we all do when our ego gets out of line.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Thursday 11th May 2017
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FredClogs said:
entropy said:
Tai Chi master (yes, its a martial art as well) pummeled by MMA fighter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-3985337...
There is so much wrong with this, but the old guy agreed to do it and obviously thought he had the skills to win... So 2001 really, has he not seen the early UFCs?

Martial arts that don't offer competitive sparring have valuable physical and mental benefits, as does hill walking, rowing or playing squash... But it doesn't make you able to compete at MMA, just as doing the 3peaks challenge won't make you better at basketball - they're not the same thing, and if this delusional old man doesn't see that he needs to go back to white belt - as we all do when our ego gets out of line.
A Wing Chun master who is allowed to use all his techniques might beat an MMA fighter.

Hard to fight when your eyes have been gouged and your kneecap kicked out.

FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Thursday 11th May 2017
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Ayahuasca said:
FredClogs said:
entropy said:
Tai Chi master (yes, its a martial art as well) pummeled by MMA fighter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-3985337...
There is so much wrong with this, but the old guy agreed to do it and obviously thought he had the skills to win... So 2001 really, has he not seen the early UFCs?

Martial arts that don't offer competitive sparring have valuable physical and mental benefits, as does hill walking, rowing or playing squash... But it doesn't make you able to compete at MMA, just as doing the 3peaks challenge won't make you better at basketball - they're not the same thing, and if this delusional old man doesn't see that he needs to go back to white belt - as we all do when our ego gets out of line.
A Wing Chun master who is allowed to use all his techniques might beat an MMA fighter.

Hard to fight when your eyes have been gouged and your kneecap kicked out.
If eye pokes were legal in the UFC (kicking to the legs, and knees is) then the guy with the best MMA would still win (mma largely being a mix of good kick boxing, BJJ and wrestling). Besides eye pokes do happen all the time in MMA, the reason they're not allowed isn't because they instantly win fights, which they may do in the street but against a pro fighter you will really just piss him off, it's because they can damage peoples long term quality of life. And in a street fight could be the difference between an affray or ABH charge and a malicious wounding or GBH charge.

Fella, seriously go to any Boxing, Thai boxing, Kick boxing, Judo, wrestling or BJJ club where they actual spar and see how far poking people in the eyes gets you, it might take someone by surprise and you might win your first round, but your novelty move will soon wear off.

Enough already this whole conversation is so very last century...

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Thursday 11th May 2017
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FredClogs said:
If eye pokes were legal in the UFC (kicking to the legs, and knees is) then the guy with the best MMA would still win (mma largely being a mix of good kick boxing, BJJ and wrestling). Besides eye pokes do happen all the time in MMA, the reason they're not allowed isn't because they instantly win fights, which they may do in the street but against a pro fighter you will really just piss him off, it's because they can damage peoples long term quality of life. And in a street fight could be the difference between an affray or ABH charge and a malicious wounding or GBH charge.

Fella, seriously go to any Boxing, Thai boxing, Kick boxing, Judo, wrestling or BJJ club where they actual spar and see how far poking people in the eyes gets you, it might take someone by surprise and you might win your first round, but your novelty move will soon wear off.

Enough already this whole conversation is so very last century...
Fred, you misunderstand. The clip was hoping to prove that traditional Chinese MA could defeat a 'modern' MMA fighter. Wing Chun uses eye gouges(not pokes), knee kicks and groin kicks, and is a traditional MA. If the bout had between a Wing Chun master and an MMA guy, each fighting according to their code's rules, it might have been closer.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Sunday 14th May 2017
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Attended a training session on knife and gun disarming today. Some useful techniques learned.

Lozw86

871 posts

131 months

Sunday 14th May 2017
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Yes I'm sure you'll use them all the time