Karate experts - are they really 'hard'?
Discussion
Joey Ramone said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hG84aDyuMw
I honestly wouldn't know whether to s
t myself, vomit, or burst into tears. Probably all three simultaneously
I'd be inclined to agree there. Look at the size of the guy though!! I mean he'd just pick you up by the face, like one of those teddy grabber machines on the peer and then just crush your skull!! I honestly wouldn't know whether to s
t myself, vomit, or burst into tears. Probably all three simultaneouslyPixel Pusher said:
brrapp said:
3. The most dangerous man on the planet in a fight is a middle aged man, he knows he is unfit, he knows he is getting past it
This.So if any of you see ME coming... well you've been warned.
Oh and don't forget overweight.
christ, typing that has knackered me
Hoofy said:
Pixel Pusher said:
brrapp said:
3. The most dangerous man on the planet in a fight is a middle aged man, he knows he is unfit, he knows he is getting past it
This.So if any of you see ME coming... well you've been warned.
Oh and don't forget overweight.
christ, typing that has knackered me
brrapp said:
I was a bouncer for a number of years in my youth and saw a few fights. The only sport which gave an advantage in a real fight was boxing. It gives speed, stamina, balance and most important, the ability to take a punch without going down. I don't know of any other martial art which does this.
Other than that, the three most important pieces of advice are
1. Avoid if possible
2. Get your retaliation in first
3. The most dangerous man on the planet in a fight is a middle aged man, he knows he is unfit, he knows he is getting past it, he's probably got more to lose so he'll do anything he can to win. He'll use anything to hand to get you down quickly and keep going till you're unconscious or have serious injuries
Muay Thai also teaches what you said but also how to throw kicks, knees, elbows and how to clinch and throw/trip Other than that, the three most important pieces of advice are
1. Avoid if possible
2. Get your retaliation in first
3. The most dangerous man on the planet in a fight is a middle aged man, he knows he is unfit, he knows he is getting past it, he's probably got more to lose so he'll do anything he can to win. He'll use anything to hand to get you down quickly and keep going till you're unconscious or have serious injuries
If you put a pro boxer against a pro Muay Thai fighter the Thai fighter would muller him 99 times out of 100 simply because he has more weapons at his disposal
this is the exact reason floyd mayweather wants Conor mcgregor in a boxing match rather than an mma rules fight Conor just has so many more weapons available at any one time
Hoofy said:
BRR said:
cheers, though it really is hard to tell as there are so many variables in any given situation. saying that though I'd much rather go into a fight with the skills/practice I've picked up over the years than without. though perhaps those skills could result in the repercussions being worse either from the police or when you're just sat in the pub n some trumpet puts a bottle over your head?
anecdotally my sister is a black belt in the sort of karate they teach at a village hall, she can't fight at all, even the crappy moves she tries to demo don't work unless you're fully compliant
I think one of the things a decent "self defence" instructor would teach is situational awareness. Too many idiots are walking along the road with their colourful Beats (expensive) headphones on full volume while poking their brand new iPhone arguing about the colour red on Faceogram. Before they know it, they've walked into a small group of bored chavs who fancy a new iPhone and headphones.anecdotally my sister is a black belt in the sort of karate they teach at a village hall, she can't fight at all, even the crappy moves she tries to demo don't work unless you're fully compliant
As for your sister, she might not be able to fight her way out of a wet paper bag but does she walk with a certain confidence that means a potential attacker will pick on someone who looks like an easy target? This can often be enough when it comes to a mugger or similar as they don't really fancy going seven rounds with a karate champ.
I think how you carry yourself makes a difference, I dont allow myself to be worried by groups of kids, you cant show any fear with little scrotes, just be polite and non confrontational, and if they do ever do that daft Chav thing of offering themselves wide open, take full advantage, I cant imagine anybody who has trained in anything does that stupid fronting, it just says aggressive, foolish and soon to be unconscious wearing a nice imprint of a forehead where their nose used to be, they only do it against soft targets though.
J4CKO said:
Wear an MMA T shirt at all times and that may help, even if you have never done any training !
I think how you carry yourself makes a difference, I dont allow myself to be worried by groups of kids, you cant show any fear with little scrotes, just be polite and non confrontational, and if they do ever do that daft Chav thing of offering themselves wide open, take full advantage, I cant imagine anybody who has trained in anything does that stupid fronting, it just says aggressive, foolish and soon to be unconscious wearing a nice imprint of a forehead where their nose used to be, they only do it against soft targets though.
It's funny how they do that. I guess as you say they wouldn't do it to someone they were scared of.I think how you carry yourself makes a difference, I dont allow myself to be worried by groups of kids, you cant show any fear with little scrotes, just be polite and non confrontational, and if they do ever do that daft Chav thing of offering themselves wide open, take full advantage, I cant imagine anybody who has trained in anything does that stupid fronting, it just says aggressive, foolish and soon to be unconscious wearing a nice imprint of a forehead where their nose used to be, they only do it against soft targets though.
wolfracesonic said:
Hoofy said:
Pixel Pusher said:
brrapp said:
3. The most dangerous man on the planet in a fight is a middle aged man, he knows he is unfit, he knows he is getting past it
This.So if any of you see ME coming... well you've been warned.
Oh and don't forget overweight.
christ, typing that has knackered me
I have to say that my 9th Dan in Taking your way out of st you or your mates have got you into has always worked very, very well, but not quite as well as my 10th Dan in Not being there when st gets real, and 11th Dan in being very well aware of my surroundings and not being there when st gets real.
I have a green belt in running away as if the chase is more than 100m (in which case they are not likely to catch me) by 110m my fag trashed lungs, success ballast and general total lack of fitness will do for me.
As one person has mentioned being unfit and middle aged certainly means that if I ever find myself in the wrong place at the wrong time and be attacked (or about to be attacked) I will be unlikely to stop, and most certainly would not be fair minded, until i was certain that they were not about to get back up again. chances are though that i will be the one drinking my meals and drooling - Hence learning the skills in my first paragraph!
t you or your mates have got you into has always worked very, very well, but not quite as well as my 10th Dan in Not being there when st gets real, and 11th Dan in being very well aware of my surroundings and not being there when st gets real.I have a green belt in running away as if the chase is more than 100m (in which case they are not likely to catch me) by 110m my fag trashed lungs, success ballast and general total lack of fitness will do for me.
As one person has mentioned being unfit and middle aged certainly means that if I ever find myself in the wrong place at the wrong time and be attacked (or about to be attacked) I will be unlikely to stop, and most certainly would not be fair minded, until i was certain that they were not about to get back up again. chances are though that i will be the one drinking my meals and drooling - Hence learning the skills in my first paragraph!
Before fatness & middle age sprung its unwelcome gifts upon me, I did judo as a kid, then taekwondo, bit of boxing and then bit of Jiu jitsu as an adult with the odd one off class in Krav Maga.
Here's Cob1's top 7 fighting styles, in order of likelihood of victory, IMHO:
1 Talking - Because being eloquent and doing well at the debating society always works. (See point 2 if, er, you talking is what got you into this mess)
2, Have your mates hold you back - good job you held me back there, Steve, if I'd have got hold of him I'd be up on charges for murder... yeah, well he's not worth it mate.
2 Running away - fighting more than one person? a knife is involved? You used to be a bit tasty but now you are a powerfully built company director? I don't care how good you are, or what MA you do/did, in fights like this you run a 2:1 odds of permanent/serious injury. run.
3 rugby player - big heavy lads who are used to taking big impacts... punch a prop in the face and he'll just think you are flirting... it'll be like fighting a wall.
4 Jiu Jitsu/MMA ground work - Pretty good, easy to do basic stuff whilst over refreshed, wearing black tie in one's members club, (training at my club included being 'attacked' repeatedly, all in rapid succession by the whole class - with a random mix of groups, or 1 to 1 with punches, kicks, fake weapons etc) - this doesn't work if there is a group of attackers being on the ground against a group will end badly for you (go to points 1&3)
3 Boxing - though they dont have quite the stopping power, punches are far more likely to land and be quicker than kicks (not an opinion, its biometrics - yay science). Plus I dont know about you, but I'm not doing flying hook kicks in a bar, on a slippery floor, wearing tweed jacket & brogues, after 6 pints & a rather nice bottle of port...
5, Taekwondo/Karate etc. You may be quicker, more flexible & fitter and your timing could be bang on - but in most brawls the techniques you train for wont apply... I got up to international level (v. briefly), I loved the sport but its not the one for winning a brawl with a gobby plumber from bolton in the kebab house at 2am.
6, krav maga - its all about maim and kill, so you either wont be good enough to use it, or if you are, you just won't use it. Ps. If you are comfortable using Krav Maga in anger in a pub, congratulations you can field strip an Ak74 blindfolded, eat deadly spiders for fun and were probably the chap on the balcony? you wear a balaclava for a living? No? oh.
Here's Cob1's top 7 fighting styles, in order of likelihood of victory, IMHO:
1 Talking - Because being eloquent and doing well at the debating society always works. (See point 2 if, er, you talking is what got you into this mess)
2, Have your mates hold you back - good job you held me back there, Steve, if I'd have got hold of him I'd be up on charges for murder... yeah, well he's not worth it mate.
2 Running away - fighting more than one person? a knife is involved? You used to be a bit tasty but now you are a powerfully built company director? I don't care how good you are, or what MA you do/did, in fights like this you run a 2:1 odds of permanent/serious injury. run.
3 rugby player - big heavy lads who are used to taking big impacts... punch a prop in the face and he'll just think you are flirting... it'll be like fighting a wall.
4 Jiu Jitsu/MMA ground work - Pretty good, easy to do basic stuff whilst over refreshed, wearing black tie in one's members club, (training at my club included being 'attacked' repeatedly, all in rapid succession by the whole class - with a random mix of groups, or 1 to 1 with punches, kicks, fake weapons etc) - this doesn't work if there is a group of attackers being on the ground against a group will end badly for you (go to points 1&3)
3 Boxing - though they dont have quite the stopping power, punches are far more likely to land and be quicker than kicks (not an opinion, its biometrics - yay science). Plus I dont know about you, but I'm not doing flying hook kicks in a bar, on a slippery floor, wearing tweed jacket & brogues, after 6 pints & a rather nice bottle of port...
5, Taekwondo/Karate etc. You may be quicker, more flexible & fitter and your timing could be bang on - but in most brawls the techniques you train for wont apply... I got up to international level (v. briefly), I loved the sport but its not the one for winning a brawl with a gobby plumber from bolton in the kebab house at 2am.
6, krav maga - its all about maim and kill, so you either wont be good enough to use it, or if you are, you just won't use it. Ps. If you are comfortable using Krav Maga in anger in a pub, congratulations you can field strip an Ak74 blindfolded, eat deadly spiders for fun and were probably the chap on the balcony? you wear a balaclava for a living? No? oh.
At school, in my final year, we had the school bully and his favourite punch bag (not me). We all left at the end of term, and that was that. Er, except it wasn't. A few years later, at a local disco, the poor little punch bag turned up, sort of reunion. And as you can guess, bully though it was gonna be fun again to pick on his previous victim. Except previous victim had joined the Navy, and become the ships middle weight boxing champion. (Found that out later). Bully threw a punch, missed by miles, and spent the next 5 minutes punching fresh air. Victim then proceeded to slap him about around the head for a minute or so, then knocked him cold out with a couple of punches. Justice at least !! Though then that boxing seemed a pretty good self defence art. At least other guys hit you in training!! Hard !
Anyone who is any good at Krav can use it without permanently maiming, the instructor I had use to make me like Jim off Friday Night Dinner with Wilson the Alsatian, i.e. a bit nervous of an attack, the attacks came but were swift, painful but involved no lasting damage, a maximum prejudice attack from him would have killed me, of that I have no doubt !
Now I have dropped some weight, might go back to it.
Now I have dropped some weight, might go back to it.
FWIW - the hardest, last person in the World you would want to have to fight, bloke I have ever known was the son of a friend of a family friend. Only ever met the chap a couple of times but the last time I did you would think to look at him that he was a middle aged bloke who might occasionally play the odd game of rugby. You certainly would not pick him out in a crowd as being a hard man or someone not to mess with and I can honestly say that I never once heard of him getting into any trouble.
He wasn't about much though as he was always away with work playing about in boats and pissing off the pansys (his words) that he thought spent too much time swanning about jumping out of 'planes and thinking about writing their memoirs...
He wasn't about much though as he was always away with work playing about in boats and pissing off the pansys (his words) that he thought spent too much time swanning about jumping out of 'planes and thinking about writing their memoirs...
For me it's all situational, you can have 15 years of martial arts under your fancy belt, but if you're mooching down the high street with your beats headphones on scrolling through facebook and some teenage oik takes a dislike to you then you're in the st.
Cooper's colour codes of situational awareness was something I was taught early on, and something I adhere to all the time. https://www.policeone.com/police-trainers/articles... (Apologies for the yank police link, but Cooper's wiki page is quite long)
It sounds like something that should be in the Walter Mitty thread, but it's a good mindset to be in. If you can avoid being in a confrontational situation in the first place, life is so much easier. You never know if the scrawny bloke calling you out has an edged weapon, or if his 6'5 brother Vlad is waiting around the corner with his biker gang mates.
I've been in many fights, and potentially violent situations and never come off worse (long may that continue).
In answer to the thread title, I know a lad called John who's about 5'1" and looks like Verne Troyer. He does however know pretty much every martial art going, and in truth he's one of the toughest guys I know. If someone really puts the time and effort into a martial art then they should be 'harder' than most people they come up against. Unless of course, like in the earlier, hideous anecdote, that person has a claw hammer!
t.Cooper's colour codes of situational awareness was something I was taught early on, and something I adhere to all the time. https://www.policeone.com/police-trainers/articles... (Apologies for the yank police link, but Cooper's wiki page is quite long)
It sounds like something that should be in the Walter Mitty thread, but it's a good mindset to be in. If you can avoid being in a confrontational situation in the first place, life is so much easier. You never know if the scrawny bloke calling you out has an edged weapon, or if his 6'5 brother Vlad is waiting around the corner with his biker gang mates.
I've been in many fights, and potentially violent situations and never come off worse (long may that continue).
In answer to the thread title, I know a lad called John who's about 5'1" and looks like Verne Troyer. He does however know pretty much every martial art going, and in truth he's one of the toughest guys I know. If someone really puts the time and effort into a martial art then they should be 'harder' than most people they come up against. Unless of course, like in the earlier, hideous anecdote, that person has a claw hammer!
Edited by Jonmx on Monday 20th March 14:26
Rude-boy said:
FWIW - the hardest, last person in the World you would want to have to fight, bloke I have ever known was the son of a friend of a family friend. Only ever met the chap a couple of times but the last time I did you would think to look at him that he was a middle aged bloke who might occasionally play the odd game of rugby. You certainly would not pick him out in a crowd as being a hard man or someone not to mess with and I can honestly say that I never once heard of him getting into any trouble.
He wasn't about much though as he was always away with work playing about in boats and pissing off the pansys (his words) that he thought spent too much time swanning about jumping out of 'planes and thinking about writing their memoirs...
So if you only met this 'son of a friend of a friend' a couple of times, and he never once got into any trouble, how do you know how hard he was?He wasn't about much though as he was always away with work playing about in boats and pissing off the pansys (his words) that he thought spent too much time swanning about jumping out of 'planes and thinking about writing their memoirs...
And don't say special forces, that doesn't really mean anything.
Martial arts of any kind will usually be good for keeping fit and boosting confidence but the majority of martial arts taught in classrooms are either
1) Not practical enough, i.e. moves are too complicated, no full contact training etc so all the "training" goes out the window when they end up in a real fight. You just have to watch how often bouts of UFC fights, even those involving "10th Dan masters" who have been training all their lives, soon devolve into untidy scraps.
2) Too violent so even if you manages to use the techniques, it will mean you end up killing someone and ending up in jail.
Also no martial art is going to help you if you meet up with a nutter who is willing to go that one step further than you or someone with a knife, weapon or a group of people.
All these people telling stories about someone taking on multiple attackers, if a group of people make a proper concerted attack, you could be an 18th Dan whatever, you are still going down. However what usually happens is 1 or 2 trouble makers have a half-hearted go and everyone else just stands around watching which in the re-telling turns into "that bloke took on 6 people".
Very few martial arts techniques actually work and even if they do, fewer people still have the right mentality and discipline to use those techniques in a proper fight scenario. I've been in a few unintended scraps and I can barely remember what happened due to the adrenaline rush, let alone be cognisant enough to use MA techniques. I've only ever seen one or two instances of martial arts used properly in a street fight and even then it wasn't flying spin kicks to the head, it was scrappy, it was dangerous, the MA guy just happened to keep his head a bit better and get some proper licks in but he wouldn't have won any style points and it still could have gone horribly wrong. Real life isn't the movies I'm afraid.
1) Not practical enough, i.e. moves are too complicated, no full contact training etc so all the "training" goes out the window when they end up in a real fight. You just have to watch how often bouts of UFC fights, even those involving "10th Dan masters" who have been training all their lives, soon devolve into untidy scraps.
2) Too violent so even if you manages to use the techniques, it will mean you end up killing someone and ending up in jail.
Also no martial art is going to help you if you meet up with a nutter who is willing to go that one step further than you or someone with a knife, weapon or a group of people.
All these people telling stories about someone taking on multiple attackers, if a group of people make a proper concerted attack, you could be an 18th Dan whatever, you are still going down. However what usually happens is 1 or 2 trouble makers have a half-hearted go and everyone else just stands around watching which in the re-telling turns into "that bloke took on 6 people".
Very few martial arts techniques actually work and even if they do, fewer people still have the right mentality and discipline to use those techniques in a proper fight scenario. I've been in a few unintended scraps and I can barely remember what happened due to the adrenaline rush, let alone be cognisant enough to use MA techniques. I've only ever seen one or two instances of martial arts used properly in a street fight and even then it wasn't flying spin kicks to the head, it was scrappy, it was dangerous, the MA guy just happened to keep his head a bit better and get some proper licks in but he wouldn't have won any style points and it still could have gone horribly wrong. Real life isn't the movies I'm afraid.
Joey Ramone said:
So if you only met this 'son of a friend of a friend' a couple of times, and he never once got into any trouble, how do you know how hard he was?
And don't say special forces, that doesn't really mean anything.
Quite simple really - He lived in Tenbury Wells. But like the fact that he was SBS that will mean nothing to you - All I know is unless it was between him and Chuck Norris he'd be the one I'd want in my corner all day, every day.And don't say special forces, that doesn't really mean anything.
Good treatment of 'what is the best martial art for self defence'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_POoeIds50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_POoeIds50
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