Karate experts - are they really 'hard'?
Discussion
After training and competing in MMA and various supporting martial arts for over 10 years now all it has made me do is realise how little I'm interested in getting into a real fight. before doing martial arts I would occasionally get into scraps (and usually lose) probably due to being a mouthy nobber but since I got into training etc it gives you a little more confidence but mainly it humbles you.
I'd hope the composure gained from many years of full contact sparring would be of benefit in a proper fight but I'm not sure if the composure I can have in a cage/ring where there is a ref there to save you would carry over to a street fight, probably not to be honest as I'd be too concerned of the consequences of making a mistake like getting dropped and then having my head stamped on.
though I do know a few guys who I've trained with over the years that do regularly get into street fights with non trained people and they've always won, though I'm not sure if this is entirely down to their training or just the fact that they love a fight and don't seem to think/care about the consequences
I'd hope the composure gained from many years of full contact sparring would be of benefit in a proper fight but I'm not sure if the composure I can have in a cage/ring where there is a ref there to save you would carry over to a street fight, probably not to be honest as I'd be too concerned of the consequences of making a mistake like getting dropped and then having my head stamped on.
though I do know a few guys who I've trained with over the years that do regularly get into street fights with non trained people and they've always won, though I'm not sure if this is entirely down to their training or just the fact that they love a fight and don't seem to think/care about the consequences
lord trumpton said:
Some friend from the past on FB has started his own Karate school and as part of his promotion he includes clips of sparring etc
To me, it just looks like choreographed fighting - they fight in a certain way with certain moves and kicks etc; react to the opponent based on how they read their moves...
How would these black belts fare in the real world against a real hard man? How would they handle a flurry of wild punches, headbutts and wrestling?
I passed my 1st Dan Shotokan yesterday and I'm good at sparring. I don't think it's much use for real world though at my level. However, I sometime train with a 6th and 8th Dan sensei with many years of competition experience and they would deal with anything. The 8th Dan has a job in "payment enforcement".To me, it just looks like choreographed fighting - they fight in a certain way with certain moves and kicks etc; react to the opponent based on how they read their moves...
How would these black belts fare in the real world against a real hard man? How would they handle a flurry of wild punches, headbutts and wrestling?
My son passed his 1st Dan last year. He was getting bullied at school but has defended himself with what he has learnt and doesn't get any trouble now.
Ayahuasca said:
Liokault said:
Ayahuasca said:
http://www.attackproof.com/the-myth-of-grappling-a...
Good article on sport vs real self defence techniques.
It's really not. Good article on sport vs real self defence techniques.
It does ignore many many basic facts to promote its agenda. And I do zero ground fighting.
This has been proven time and time again.
No one relying on "dirty" fighting is training "alive". They are going through the motions....You punch me like this....I block like that....now I poke you in the eye.
The vast vast majority of BJJ/MMA clubs do not bill themselves as "self-defence".
As much as people hate it, especially trad guys and the "reality" self-defence guys, the closest you are going to get to a real "fight" or "conflict" and the closest you are going to get to neurological and biological effects (fight of flight etc) of a real conflict is getting into a ring with a trained young man who wishes to knock you out.
The reality self-defence crowd have lots of "scenarios" that they will play through, but it is playing. No one is really at any risk, no one is really going to get poked in the eye. It’s much much further from the "street" than getting into a ring/cage.
That’s really just scratching the surface of what is wrong with that article.
Kickboxing gave me a bit more confidence, never had to use it in anger and as I haven't trained for many many years (stopped due to a knee injury and didn't end up going back) it's likely that I'd suck at it now.
Fancy techniques are all well and good but a Ju Jitsu instructor I once spoke to said that in a street fight a lot of it goes out the window, the idea being to take your opponent(s) out of the fight as quickly as possible, knees to the groin, fingers in eye sockets and "Doing a Tyson" are all legitimate moves if you fear for your life.
As for weapons - the best form of defence is to have a bigger one or more realistically leg it.
The point being, whilst technical knowledge can be useful, if the other untrained guy has a weapon and you don't, which is quite probable in a random streetfight, then..."You even killed the brides father"
"I didn't mean to"
"DIDN'T MEAN TO, you put your sword right through is head"
Fancy techniques are all well and good but a Ju Jitsu instructor I once spoke to said that in a street fight a lot of it goes out the window, the idea being to take your opponent(s) out of the fight as quickly as possible, knees to the groin, fingers in eye sockets and "Doing a Tyson" are all legitimate moves if you fear for your life.
As for weapons - the best form of defence is to have a bigger one or more realistically leg it.
Centurion07 said:
turbobloke said:
At one time I knew where to strike and the technique to use in order to put the blade of a sword through two major arteries, the windpipe and spinal cord in one blow...
Whilst I guess technically impressive, I'm pretty sure if you manage to stick a sword anywhere into someone's neck, even if you don't get two arteries, the windpipe AND the spinal cord, they're not going to be coming back from that. The point being, whilst technical knowledge can be useful, if the other untrained guy has a weapon and you don't, which is quite probable in a random streetfight, then...
"I didn't mean to"
"DIDN'T MEAN TO, you put your sword right through is head"
justinio said:
He would get in close, quick headbutt and follow up with some fast jabs/punches. Job done.
That's how I won my first (and fortunately last fight) as a teenager. Didn't need to follow up with punches as the other chap fell over. The other chap was a highly-regarded footballer at school so way fitter than me but I did go to karate lessons at a good school in South London. To be 'hard' I think you'd need to work out regularly AND do some martial arts / boxing but martial arts on it's own is just a discipline. Our instructor was a really cool chap who on the very first lesson said that the best thing to do in a fight was run away .. 
.SpamCan said:
"You even killed the brides father"
"I didn't mean to"
"DIDN'T MEAN TO, you put your sword right through is head"
"I didn't mean to"
"DIDN'T MEAN TO, you put your sword right through is head"
There's me thinking it was practically useless
actually I still do but that wasn't the basis for going along. Before that it was latin american dancing lessons, at least there were more women 
Given the choice (as a completely untrained 'civilian', although a veteran of a few punch ups) I'd instinctively rather square up to a karate expert than a boxer
The karate chap will very quickly turn my lights out or break me in some way. Chris Eubank could probably have killed me without really trying very hard.
Yep, the thought of finding myself squaring up to someone like Nigel Benn (in his prime) would have turned my knees to jelly.
The karate chap will very quickly turn my lights out or break me in some way. Chris Eubank could probably have killed me without really trying very hard.
Yep, the thought of finding myself squaring up to someone like Nigel Benn (in his prime) would have turned my knees to jelly.
BRR said:
After training and competing in MMA and various supporting martial arts for over 10 years now all it has made me do is realise how little I'm interested in getting into a real fight. before doing martial arts I would occasionally get into scraps (and usually lose) probably due to being a mouthy nobber but since I got into training etc it gives you a little more confidence but mainly it humbles you.
I'd hope the composure gained from many years of full contact sparring would be of benefit in a proper fight but I'm not sure if the composure I can have in a cage/ring where there is a ref there to save you would carry over to a street fight, probably not to be honest as I'd be too concerned of the consequences of making a mistake like getting dropped and then having my head stamped on.
though I do know a few guys who I've trained with over the years that do regularly get into street fights with non trained people and they've always won, though I'm not sure if this is entirely down to their training or just the fact that they love a fight and don't seem to think/care about the consequences
Having had a spar and a roll with you in the past I reckon you'd be in good stead I'd hope the composure gained from many years of full contact sparring would be of benefit in a proper fight but I'm not sure if the composure I can have in a cage/ring where there is a ref there to save you would carry over to a street fight, probably not to be honest as I'd be too concerned of the consequences of making a mistake like getting dropped and then having my head stamped on.
though I do know a few guys who I've trained with over the years that do regularly get into street fights with non trained people and they've always won, though I'm not sure if this is entirely down to their training or just the fact that they love a fight and don't seem to think/care about the consequences
All you need is a pair of nunchucks and the special karate man skills to wield them.
https://youtu.be/qsEZ2lpM0Yw
https://youtu.be/qsEZ2lpM0Yw
Pixel Pusher said:
All you need is a pair of nunchucks and the special karate man skills to wield them.
https://youtu.be/qsEZ2lpM0Yw
Shame they cut it short. His teacher has awesome hair.https://youtu.be/qsEZ2lpM0Yw
Anyway, just to counter the incompetence of the guy in your video, check this out: https://youtu.be/xWTn5poOlMQ
dazzaturbo said:
Having had a spar and a roll with you in the past I reckon you'd be in good stead
cheers, though it really is hard to tell as there are so many variables in any given situation. saying that though I'd much rather go into a fight with the skills/practice I've picked up over the years than without. though perhaps those skills could result in the repercussions being worse either from the police or when you're just sat in the pub n some trumpet puts a bottle over your head?anecdotally my sister is a black belt in the sort of karate they teach at a village hall, she can't fight at all, even the crappy moves she tries to demo don't work unless you're fully compliant
BRR said:
cheers, though it really is hard to tell as there are so many variables in any given situation. saying that though I'd much rather go into a fight with the skills/practice I've picked up over the years than without. though perhaps those skills could result in the repercussions being worse either from the police or when you're just sat in the pub n some trumpet puts a bottle over your head?
anecdotally my sister is a black belt in the sort of karate they teach at a village hall, she can't fight at all, even the crappy moves she tries to demo don't work unless you're fully compliant
I think one of the things a decent "self defence" instructor would teach is situational awareness. Too many idiots are walking along the road with their colourful Beats (expensive) headphones on full volume while poking their brand new iPhone arguing about the colour red on Faceogram. Before they know it, they've walked into a small group of bored chavs who fancy a new iPhone and headphones.anecdotally my sister is a black belt in the sort of karate they teach at a village hall, she can't fight at all, even the crappy moves she tries to demo don't work unless you're fully compliant
As for your sister, she might not be able to fight her way out of a wet paper bag but does she walk with a certain confidence that means a potential attacker will pick on someone who looks like an easy target? This can often be enough when it comes to a mugger or similar as they don't really fancy going seven rounds with a karate champ.
she doesn't to be honest, she's totally unassuming and I think she knows that what she does isn't real fighting, she enjoys it though which is all that matters so long as it doesn't give a false sense of security. thankfully she's also quite situationally aware and so doesn't get into any bother
I do always wonder about these people that have supposedly had hundreds of fights on the streets, how do they possibly get in such situations? they must be complete morons. I was brought up on various council estates where apparently all the lads were street fighting kings, hardly ever saw any of it though, mainly lots of talk about it
I do always wonder about these people that have supposedly had hundreds of fights on the streets, how do they possibly get in such situations? they must be complete morons. I was brought up on various council estates where apparently all the lads were street fighting kings, hardly ever saw any of it though, mainly lots of talk about it
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the vast majority of BJJ clubs don't train specifically for self-defense, spot on.
I'm lucky enough to train at two BJJ clubs, one focused at the 'sport' aspect with fancy guards and transitions etc. The other focused at Self-defense Jiu Jitsu so lots of clinching, distance management, punch protection, close quarters type stuff.
It's true that the first port of call for anyone with half an idea is to avoid the bloody fight in the first place, to a ridiculous extent if need be. I wouldn't fancy going to ground with a bunch of lads around me, the probability of chewing a shoe is just too high.
Until you've rolled against a guy who's actively trying to punch you it's difficult to comprehend how easy it can be to open yourself up to attacks, throw into the mix a knife and it's not a pleasant scenario!
I'm lucky enough to train at two BJJ clubs, one focused at the 'sport' aspect with fancy guards and transitions etc. The other focused at Self-defense Jiu Jitsu so lots of clinching, distance management, punch protection, close quarters type stuff.
It's true that the first port of call for anyone with half an idea is to avoid the bloody fight in the first place, to a ridiculous extent if need be. I wouldn't fancy going to ground with a bunch of lads around me, the probability of chewing a shoe is just too high.
Until you've rolled against a guy who's actively trying to punch you it's difficult to comprehend how easy it can be to open yourself up to attacks, throw into the mix a knife and it's not a pleasant scenario!
I don't do Karate but to train at a club that teaches Karate.
From what I have seen of those guys, they are very quick, can throw a very fast strike and obviously that could prove helpful if needed. If you get to train and get knocked about a bit it will toughen you up to some extent.
I'm not of the opinion that anyone who does martial arts is immortal or someone to be wary of but any kind of martial arts training would be advantageous than nothing should you need to defend yourself.
From what I have seen of those guys, they are very quick, can throw a very fast strike and obviously that could prove helpful if needed. If you get to train and get knocked about a bit it will toughen you up to some extent.
I'm not of the opinion that anyone who does martial arts is immortal or someone to be wary of but any kind of martial arts training would be advantageous than nothing should you need to defend yourself.
Edited by Alex_225 on Monday 20th March 11:07
I've only managed a few pages of this thread, but is it only MA Experts who get 'jumped' by Hoods?
Maybe I've lead a sheltered life, but I don't think so - but I've never been 'jumped' by anyone, nor do I know anyone who has.
I know a Guy who studied Ninjitsu for years, he is incredibly hard, but he was hard before, he's just hard with a working plan now. I think it's more of a mindset.
Maybe I've lead a sheltered life, but I don't think so - but I've never been 'jumped' by anyone, nor do I know anyone who has.
I know a Guy who studied Ninjitsu for years, he is incredibly hard, but he was hard before, he's just hard with a working plan now. I think it's more of a mindset.
Amirhussain said:
turbobloke said:
Talking of videos, this infamous example has probably been posted earlier but never mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE2PxkSJW7M
Haha I remember that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE2PxkSJW7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hG84aDyuMw
I honestly wouldn't know whether to s
t myself, vomit, or burst into tears. Probably all three simultaneously
I honestly wouldn't know whether to s
t myself, vomit, or burst into tears. Probably all three simultaneouslyI was a bouncer for a number of years in my youth and saw a few fights. The only sport which gave an advantage in a real fight was boxing. It gives speed, stamina, balance and most important, the ability to take a punch without going down. I don't know of any other martial art which does this.
Other than that, the three most important pieces of advice are
1. Avoid if possible
2. Get your retaliation in first
3. The most dangerous man on the planet in a fight is a middle aged man, he knows he is unfit, he knows he is getting past it, he's probably got more to lose so he'll do anything he can to win. He'll use anything to hand to get you down quickly and keep going till you're unconscious or have serious injuries
Other than that, the three most important pieces of advice are
1. Avoid if possible
2. Get your retaliation in first
3. The most dangerous man on the planet in a fight is a middle aged man, he knows he is unfit, he knows he is getting past it, he's probably got more to lose so he'll do anything he can to win. He'll use anything to hand to get you down quickly and keep going till you're unconscious or have serious injuries
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