Problem teenager in the house.

[S11Steve]

egor110 said:

How does this play out when the child has his own job ?

I used to enjoy arguing and fighting with my step father , under 16 i had a part time job and at 16 i started work on the post so there was no way you could stop pocket money.

The thing that worked for me/us is i moved out at 18 .

I had to learn quick to budget , keep the flat/house tidy so when i did go back to my parents it wasn't to scrounge money it was for a chat and advice as to mortgages , savings , budgeting , cooking etc.

I think he is possibly the same, trying his best to wind both me and his mother up, but he is far too predictable and easy to read and react/not react to, so he just ends up winding himself up in frustration, which he is only starting to realise.

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, but hopefully his behaviour and attitude will improved that these are no longer issues. That said, until very recently he has been promising that on his 16th birthday that he's moving in with his Dad. His Dad has mades his thoughts on that quite clear though, so we'll see in a few years what happens.

[Glasgowrob]

Mx5




Serious answer get a ropey old MX5 or similar as his first car and work on it together for a couple of years. Great way to bond it gives him an interest other than playstation and it's a great incentive to adjust his attitude behaviour

[anonymous-user]

SlimRick said:

bulldong said:

Do you do cool stuff with him? Does he have any hobbies?

We have a boat and used to go sailing a lot. Now his hobbies are his PS4 and sitting in his bedroom. I've tried to get us away for time on the boat doing things we used to but he's just not interested.

I know it is tough, but could you offer him an early "gap year"? It sounds like he has a lot on his plate.

I was a little at school, I applied myself just enough to pass with basic GCSEs and got bad marks purely from lack of effort rather than lack of ability. I was good at sports, and if there was money involved I would work my cock off.

After GCSEs I went to a local sixth form college and hated it. I wasn't in the right frame of mind to do A-levels, and just felt like everyone around me couldn't be bothered to be there either (people were skipping lessons etc), and were just there as it was the next step.

After a bit of a breakdown I spoke with my parents and persuaded them that I should stop studying and have the rest of the year off providing I got a job and then I would look at going back to school in the September. At this point I think they thought there wasn't much to lose so they agreed.

It made me realise that the only options available to me at 16 were working in a dead end job in a boat yard (really fun but dead end), and being a waiter. I worked my arse off and earned "a lot" of money for a 16 year old, got into boat sales and sold all the boats in the boat yard, paid nominal rent, and bought a moped, but realised in the end that the best option was to go back to school and respect what my parents told me was best. Part of my behaviour was mainly because I thought I was the best and nobody knew better than me. Self confidence is a great thing but sometimes it can be self defeating

I went back to school 8 months later, got excellent A level results and went to a good university. The year of extra maturity helped me with my studies.

Perhaps he is just not dealing with the situation very well, the shift from secondary school to sixth form is a big one both in terms of workload, academic expectations, new friends, new teachers. Despite your love and affection (respect for that, it doesn't sound easy), he might feel insecure about his parental situation. Lastly, he is also a teenager which is a tricky time for some kids.

Maybe you could look at something like I did? It really helped me out.

[Tim-D]

OP utter respect to you for taking him on ...

As a partial parallel I split in exceptionally acrimonious circumstances from my other half 7 years ago when my son was 10 - her actions cutting a long story short had led to social services involvement and ultimately via accusations against me my arrest for allegedly unspeakable offences, due to that whilst on bail I had to live elsewhere... the ex managed inside three days of my enforced absence to terrify and traumatise our son so badly that social services promptly placed him with me (thank god). It later transpired some fairly despicable stuff had been going on at home whilst I was at work....

Initially my boy showed no adverse affects and was much happier and far more outgoing.... but I could tell things weren't right with some poor behaviour emerging- so took a deliberate decision to just talk to him as an adult - with nothing off the agenda and no question off limits and nothing sugar coated....

My boy is now a normal, polite (in the right places) well behaved (ditto) 18y.o - now I know my situation hugely different from yours but dedicated time and open communication worked for us..... easier said than done though!

Best of luck!!!

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Bulldong's idea of a gap year could be a good one. Although polite and pleasant I didn't really apply myself as well as I could have done at 6th form - I was too interested in cars, girls, music and riding my bike.

I got poor grades in 2 out of three subjects, this was a shock after my good GCSE grades.

I then did a year labouring on a building site, whilst doing an A2 and a BTEC part time. This plus my other grades got me into a decent Uni. The reality of labouring in the heat and the cold made me really apply myself and I now have a 1st class BSc.

All the best with this lad mate, and good on you for taking him on.

[NiceCupOfTea]

4Q said:

It might be teenage rebellion. If it is you need to nip it in the bud as he'll be pushing to see how far the boundaries are. If it isn't you'll be in for years of heartbreak and pain.

This thread is fairly old but quite sobering too http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...

I posted on that thread in 2012 when my son was 16 and we had 2 or 3 really bad years after that. He looked like he was getting back on track but underneath there's still the lying conniving little st he always was. He's just better at hiding it now but it's still there. He's the very definition of sociopath.

Just spent a couple of hours reading that thread. Jesus that is depressing reading. I wonder why it was closed and what happened to the lad and his mum, he must be mid 20s now.

[jdw100]

4Q said:

It might be teenage rebellion. If it is you need to nip it in the bud as he'll be pushing to see how far the boundaries are. If it isn't you'll be in for years of heartbreak and pain.

This thread is fairly old but quite sobering too http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...

I posted on that thread in 2012 when my son was 16 and we had 2 or 3 really bad years after that. He looked like he was getting back on track but underneath there's still the lying conniving little st he always was. He's just better at hiding it now but it's still there. He's the very definition of sociopath.

Bloody hell, that's a very strong comment re your own son!

Is he really that bad?

[Dixy]

As this is PistonHeads how about this
http://under17driver.co.uk/
He would have to spend a week with you doing something for his benefit but might save you a lot of pain in the future and he might realize how lucky he is to have you.

[Wobbegong]

I remember going through similar when I was the same age. Mainly because I had given up on everything due to nonsense at school.I suspect I was going through depression but never realised it. Everyone thought I was acting like an arse for no reason but the truth was that I felt like the world was swallowing me up and I was helpless. Looking back I know exactly what caused it however at the time I was oblivious to what was happening and the downwards spiral in which I found myself.

[4Q]

jdw100 said:

Bloody hell, that's a very strong comment re your own son!

Is he really that bad?

When you meet him now he comes across a polite intelligent articulate young man, but in answer to your question, yes.

I love him and get along fine with him most of the time, I even employed him until I had to fire him last November (good money, job with prospects including proper apprenticeship, not working directly for me to avoid conflict). However I wouldn't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. He'll look you in the eye and lie (even when unnecessary), knowing that you know he's lying, and doesn't give a toss. When he gets found out for things he shows no remorse for his actions and how other people feel and is only ever sorry that it affects him somehow. He just simply doesn't get that he's crossed a line and genuinely believes that somehow we're being unreasonable.

We have three other kids (adults now) and they all grew up fine in the same normal, loving, stable, family home. He has never been denied love or attention nor gone without material things. We've always spent lots of time doing family stuff together and my eldest two see us a friends and choose to spend time with us, the youngest is 18 so him not so much at the moment. The middle son calls himself a "lone wolf" and feels hard done by even though he ends up getting far more attention and stuff than the others.

The World Health Organisation defines a sociopath as characterised by at least 3 of the following:.

- Callous unconcern for the feelings of others
- Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
- Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them
- Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
- Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
- Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalisations for the behaviour that has brought the person into conflict with society
- There may be persistent irritability as an associated feature.

He displays all of those traits except the capacity to maintain relationships as he's been with his current girlfriend for about 18 months, although I have read that sociopaths like to have people around who provide things they want and there's only one thing a 21 year man wants

We tried many options including mental health support when he was 15-17 and we were going through the worst of it, but as i said earlier he's very bright and articulate and can be charming when he wants to be so always fooled the people we saw and we got nowhere. I have never felt so helpless, nor such a failure as a father than I did during that time. It took a long time to come to the realisation and acceptance that was him not us as parents who were the issue.

Edited to add. Btw, we were not soppy snowflake parents who let the kids do as they pleased, we were firm and when there were rules there were rules. Nor though were we authoritarians who believed that kids should be seen and not heard.

Edited by 4Q on Wednesday 29th March 10:59

[S11Steve]

4Q said:

When you meet him now he comes across a polite intelligent articulate young man, but in answer to your question, yes.

I love him and get along fine with him most of the time, I even employed him until I had to fire him last November (good money, job with prospects including proper apprenticeship, not working directly for me to avoid conflict). However I wouldn't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. He'll look you in the eye and lie (even when unnecessary), knowing that you know he's lying, and doesn't give a toss. When he gets found out for things he shows no remorse for his actions and how other people feel and is only ever sorry that it affects him somehow. He just simply doesn't get that he's crossed a line and genuinely believes that somehow we're being unreasonable.

This all sounds desperately familiar I'm afraid, and is what I alluded to above with looking at other issues. We are "hoping" that it is something closer to autism/aspergers, but a number of fears are that it is more deep-rooted and psychological. We've had some very concerning red-flags over the years too, but we live in hope and try to manage it the best we can.

[80quattro]

I have two sons, ages 12 and 13. 15 month age gap, and its always been like having twins. They are both great boys and very close. Unfortunately, their mother (my ex) decided to shack with someone else late last year, who consequently left her after a couple of months (karma, eh). She now rents her own place, and we split time with the boys, slightly in my favour 4:3.

Because of the events of the last 6 months, I've been keeping a really close eye on their behaviours, individually and together. So far, so good, but I think there could be trouble ahead along the lines of the OP's experiences, as they get older.

I'm no expert with teenagers, but I obviously know my own kids, and they are both at the very early stages of potential problem years. I've decided that I will take them both out of their comfort zone and make them realize/appreciate what they have and their personal circumstances. Phones and internet access will go, and I'll probably take them on an extended camping trip in deepest Wales with basic kit. No distractions, no lifts anywhere, no TV, living out of a rucksack, getting cold, wet and being hungry if they don't prepare a meal. A kind of attempt to hit the reset button in a way.

Not sure what the outcome will be, but worth a try for long term benefit.

[antspants]

^ I take my son (10) camping in the Lake District once a year for a week, not quite as extreme as you're talking about as we tend to head off somewhere nice and warm for dinner if we're wet and cold - as much for my benefit as his

But it is an amazing bonding experience, and pushes us both out of our comfort zones. We've included quite a few activities over the years, hiking, rock climbing (I hate heights), ghyll scrambling (amazing!), canoeing, bushcraft etc. We went to Wales last year and did potholing (I did not like) and mountain boarding (very cool).

Him with no ipad, laptop, xbox, me with no access to emails, you get to just spend time with each other with no distractions. I love it! My wife did come last year for the first time and said although it was nice to spend the time together it felt nothing like a holiday so don't think she'll bother again!

But going back to your point, it does make him realise that he doesn't need all his devices and a wifi connection, or somebody doing everything for him all the time. Makes him realise he's capable of more than he thinks!

[SlimRick]

Some great responses here, thank you, and quite reassuring to note that we're not the only ones going through similar.

Not much of an update - We saw him briefly last night, called him down from his room for dinner and he ignored us. Came down an hour later, ignored his dinner, raided the cupboard for crisps and cereal bars and then went out without saying a word to us. He came home at about 10.30, and went straight up to his bedroom.

I've arranged a viewing for him in a shared house tonight. It will either be just what he wants, his own space and bit of freedom, or it will help him realise how good he has it at home.

I've had to resort to texting him to tell him this as he won't talk without flying off the handle. We've said that we will pay for it until he is eighteen, or while he stays in full time education.

[anonymous-user]

SlimRick said:

I've arranged a viewing for him in a shared house tonight. It will either be just what he wants, his own space and bit of freedom, or it will help him realise how good he has it at home.

...or he'll think you are trying to get rid of him and leave anyway.

My son is 15 and has his rather angry moments. As I said in my earlier post, I simply don't engage with him when he's angry. Tried it and it upsets both of us.

If he doesn't want to eat his tea, simple - stop making it for him. Rummaging through the cupboards for biscuits? Stop buying biscuits. Hope you don't mind me saying this but it looks like he can make the choices with little or no consequence. Sounds like he still relies on you so you do still have options.

I drop my son off in the morning so he can do his paper round (he likes to earn his own money) and still catch his school bus. If he arrives late for school he gets detention and if he doesn't do his round he loses his job. He started getting later and later and still expected me to drop him off. I explained he ran the risk of making me late for work. It made no difference so I asked him several more times. Still nothing. After getting more and more screwed up I told him one morning I'd had enough and he could walk - flatly refusing to help him. He threw a fit and called me all sorts of things before slamming the door and running 2 miles to the paper shop.

Next morning he was downstairs early!

[Smitters]

OP - I hope it goes well. One thing I do remember registering in my distantly youth was:

"Behave like an adult and you'll get treated like an adult, behave like a child and you're get treated like a child". This was at exactly your sons age.

What I take away from this now is that it does take two to tango here. Obviously I have only read what you've typed and you seem really reasonable, but I suspect kids really know how to push their parents buttons. Perhaps part of a bargain is that you treat him more like an adult, with the associated perks of increased responsibility, but also by explaining the downsides. He wants to control his own mealtimes and food intake? Fine, but then you won't be cooking and laying a place for him unless he asks you to. And then don't. He wants to eat random stuff, fine, but he buys it.

I appreciate that you're doing just this by offering him accommodation away from home, but however far you go with it, defined boundaries will really help. I would also say that writing/typing him a letter telling him how you feel - not focusing on the negative, but reinforcing what (I hope) he knows deep down, that you love him, that he is a part of your family, and that as eldest, you will look to him to provide an example for his siblings and how he could do that better, as opposed to focussing solely on the negatives.

Fingers crossed he's pleased with your efforts!

[smifffymoto]

OP you have described my son to the letter.As parents nowdays we can't understand the pressure our children are under from the job market,the housing market,social media etc.
They get to certain age and want to be an adult but haven't the courage to properly go it alone but still need the reassurance that you are there.
We suffered broken doors,abuse,and more arguments than I can remember.
There is alot of advice and explanations of what causes it and how to deal with on the web.

[JimmyConwayNW]

Throw his TV out of the window that will show him!

The poster that thinks his kid is a sociopath do you think he is dangerous or has the potential to be dangerous to others?

Do you not think he is just a selfish self centred ahole that may or may not change?

[S11Steve]

JimmyConwayNW said:

The poster that thinks his kid is a sociopath do you think he is dangerous or has the potential to be dangerous to others?

Does the killing of multiple pets show that potential?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

SlimRick said:

He is going through what I think is normal teenage behaviour, leaving mess around the house, eating any food that is left within reach regardless of who it's for, not contributing in any way to help the family when it comes to doing chores.

This is not normal teenage behaviour.

SlimRick said:

In the past year he has become verbally abusive to us both, he has tried to push me out of the way mid-argument but due to me being powerfully built (quite fat) it didn't get very far.
Now I realise, that some of this is perfectly normal,

It's not perfectly normal.

I don't have any answers, but this belief that teenagers are, by default, complete s just isn't true.