Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
ATG said:
Austin_Metro said:
cheesejunkie said:
turbobloke said:
HMG gets a tax break when a parent sends a child to an independent school.
The parent does.HMG doesn't get tax breaks.
A natural extension to Cheese Junkie’s drive for parity would be a tax credit for those parent tax payers not using the state system. It would be very simple to administer, just extending the nil rate band by the amount that would have been paid to a state school.
Austin_Metro said:
Ok, why?
A natural extension to Cheese Junkie’s drive for parity would be a tax credit for those parent tax payers not using the state system. It would be very simple to administer, just extending the nil rate band by the amount that would have been paid to a state school.
Why would you want to do that, though? Surely everybody benefits from the education of future generations?A natural extension to Cheese Junkie’s drive for parity would be a tax credit for those parent tax payers not using the state system. It would be very simple to administer, just extending the nil rate band by the amount that would have been paid to a state school.
ATG said:
If 10% can no longer afford private education, then those 10% may well go to the State sector. The other 90% will move to different independent schools.
The other 90% might find it difficult to find places in both state and private schools... there are an awful lot of day pupils at the smaller private schools, I am not sure they'd find a long journey to the nearest surviving private schools to be that easy either.Other than that, banking on 'the other 90% will move to other private schools' sounds a brilliant and well thought out outcome!
beagrizzly said:
Why would you want to do that, though? Surely everybody benefits from the education of future generations?
I don’t understand the question. This thread is (mainly) about charging VAT on fee paying schools fees. Not charging VAT is seen by some as a tax break for the users of the system - others have pointed out that education doesn’t usually incur VAT - and that what VAT gets charged on is decided upon a little randomly. My suggestion about a tax credit is a counterpoint to the suggestions that private schools are subsidised by the state. Looking at the overall picture, the users are actually taking a big cost off the government books - hence there is an argument for a tax credit.
ATG said:
Austin_Metro said:
cheesejunkie said:
turbobloke said:
HMG gets a tax break when a parent sends a child to an independent school.
The parent does.HMG doesn't get tax breaks.
Austin_Metro said:
beagrizzly said:
Why would you want to do that, though? Surely everybody benefits from the education of future generations?
I don’t understand the question. This thread is (mainly) about charging VAT on fee paying schools fees. Not charging VAT is seen by some as a tax break for the users of the system - others have pointed out that education doesn’t usually incur VAT - and that what VAT gets charged on is decided upon a little randomly. My suggestion about a tax credit is a counterpoint to the suggestions that private schools are subsidised by the state. Looking at the overall picture, the users are actually taking a big cost off the government books - hence there is an argument for a tax credit.
Edited by dukeboy749r on Wednesday 8th May 10:04
dukeboy749r said:
Austin_Metro you and Louis Blafour, may be presenting sane reasons, but we have to (seemingly) 'suck it up', according to some.
When labour win, higher and additional rate taxpayers will really have to suck it up. That’s what’s going to happen regardless of VAT on private schools. There’s no one else that can pay and services need to be funded. Edited by dukeboy749r on Wednesday 8th May 10:04
The only other way is growth and a pea brained government and populace took us out of the biggest market, so that looks a bit bleak too.
Louis Balfour said:
ATG said:
Austin_Metro said:
cheesejunkie said:
turbobloke said:
HMG gets a tax break when a parent sends a child to an independent school.
The parent does.HMG doesn't get tax breaks.
Many private schools would only need lose a handful of pupils before they become unviable. With lower applications due to the threat of the envy tax this is even more risky for them.
Then when schools close the job losses, loss to local economies and stress on already full state schools. Then long term, the loss of academic rigour and achievement, impact on sport and the arts etc etc. The usual labour race to the bottom.
The £5,995 comes from this document as the minimum per head payment for a student in secondary state school.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651...
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651...
Austin_Metro said:
The £5,995 comes from this document as the minimum per head payment for a student in secondary state school.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651...
The minimum.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651...
How many children are in private education because they require help over and above “basic”. The answer is: lots.
Louis Balfour said:
Austin_Metro said:
The £5,995 comes from this document as the minimum per head payment for a student in secondary state school.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651...
The minimum.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651...
How many children are in private education because they require help over and above “basic”. The answer is: lots.
Austin_Metro said:
dukeboy749r said:
Austin_Metro you and Louis Blafour, may be presenting sane reasons, but we have to (seemingly) 'suck it up', according to some.
When labour win, higher and additional rate taxpayers will really have to suck it up. That’s what’s going to happen regardless of VAT on private schools. There’s no one else that can pay and services need to be funded. Edited by dukeboy749r on Wednesday 8th May 10:04
The only other way is growth and a pea brained government and populace took us out of the biggest market, so that looks a bit bleak too.
dukeboy749r said:
Austin_Metro said:
dukeboy749r said:
Austin_Metro you and Louis Blafour, may be presenting sane reasons, but we have to (seemingly) 'suck it up', according to some.
When labour win, higher and additional rate taxpayers will really have to suck it up. That’s what’s going to happen regardless of VAT on private schools. There’s no one else that can pay and services need to be funded. Edited by dukeboy749r on Wednesday 8th May 10:04
The only other way is growth and a pea brained government and populace took us out of the biggest market, so that looks a bit bleak too.
M1AGM said:
dukeboy749r said:
Austin_Metro said:
dukeboy749r said:
Austin_Metro you and Louis Blafour, may be presenting sane reasons, but we have to (seemingly) 'suck it up', according to some.
When labour win, higher and additional rate taxpayers will really have to suck it up. That’s what’s going to happen regardless of VAT on private schools. There’s no one else that can pay and services need to be funded. Edited by dukeboy749r on Wednesday 8th May 10:04
The only other way is growth and a pea brained government and populace took us out of the biggest market, so that looks a bit bleak too.
Thats what Brown & Blair said, then they raided pensions & increased National Insurance & stuck in things like APD for good measure.
....but they didn't raise taxes, no sireee!
What I'd suspect they will do is mess with things like ISA & pension contribution allowances to ensure more money stays outside of those tax shelters - where it can be taxed. Oddly enough we might even see a small rise in tax free allowances so they can crow about doing that while taking away with the other hand. It will be the usual sleight of hand (that we get from all governments).
They may not raise corporation tax rates but they'll do something like capping capital allowances (that most people don't even understand) but which may then stifle investment
And of course they will cross the rubicon and stick VAT on education raising 4/5ths of bugger all. Still, maybe the chaos that creates will keep them too busy to be messing with anything else!
Wombat3 said:
M1AGM said:
dukeboy749r said:
Austin_Metro said:
dukeboy749r said:
Austin_Metro you and Louis Blafour, may be presenting sane reasons, but we have to (seemingly) 'suck it up', according to some.
When labour win, higher and additional rate taxpayers will really have to suck it up. That’s what’s going to happen regardless of VAT on private schools. There’s no one else that can pay and services need to be funded. Edited by dukeboy749r on Wednesday 8th May 10:04
The only other way is growth and a pea brained government and populace took us out of the biggest market, so that looks a bit bleak too.
Thats what Brown & Blair said, then they raided pensions & increased National Insurance & stuck in things like APD for good measure.
....but they didn't raise taxes, no sireee!
What I'd suspect they will do is mess with things like ISA & pension contribution allowances to ensure more money stays outside of those tax shelters - where it can be taxed. Oddly enough we might even see a small rise in tax free allowances so they can crow about doing that while taking away with the other hand. It will be the usual sleight of hand (that we get from all governments).
They may not raise corporation tax rates but they'll do something like capping capital allowances (that most people don't even understand) but which may then stifle investment
And of course they will cross the rubicon and stick VAT on education raising 4/5ths of bugger all. Still, maybe the chaos that creates will keep them too busy to be messing with anything else!
What rubicon are they crossing? Estimates on addition costs to the state sector (quoted earlier in the thread) are less than 3 days cost for the NHS?
Overall taxation is going to be painful for most people whoever wins this election. The country has much bigger issues to deal with.
I agree the policy is all about politics as fiscally it is a nothing policy really (v small numbers). You could equally say 'why do it' as 'why not do it' depending which way you lean politically.
Overall taxation is going to be painful for most people whoever wins this election. The country has much bigger issues to deal with.
I agree the policy is all about politics as fiscally it is a nothing policy really (v small numbers). You could equally say 'why do it' as 'why not do it' depending which way you lean politically.
C4ME said:
What rubicon are they crossing? Estimates on addition costs to the state sector (quoted earlier in the thread) are less than 3 days cost for the NHS?
Overall taxation is going to be painful for most people whoever wins this election. The country has much bigger issues to deal with.
I agree the policy is all about politics as fiscally it is a nothing policy really (v small numbers). You could equally say 'why do it' as 'why not do it' depending which way you lean politically.
The concept of taxing education. Overall taxation is going to be painful for most people whoever wins this election. The country has much bigger issues to deal with.
I agree the policy is all about politics as fiscally it is a nothing policy really (v small numbers). You could equally say 'why do it' as 'why not do it' depending which way you lean politically.
When equivocating about which way to go for my eldest one of the questions I asked was what the money was actually going on.
Finding out that 30% of the fee was paying for other well-off people’s children to get a subsidised place was definitely a negative.
I do wonder if the tax changes will see bursaries being cut back or dropped entirely.
Finding out that 30% of the fee was paying for other well-off people’s children to get a subsidised place was definitely a negative.
I do wonder if the tax changes will see bursaries being cut back or dropped entirely.
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