Cigar Connosoirs - your help please
Discussion
The_Burg said:
Do cigars not go off with age like cigarettes?
Old smokes are rank.
Why should cigars be better with age?
Wine etc i can understand as it continues maturing.
Actually, a top quality Cuban is very much like a top quality Bordeaux - it needs time to develop complexity and mature. The leaves are of course already aged before rolling (2-3 years depending on the brand) and Cohiba is the only brand where the leaves go through a third fermentation. But they do improve tremendously.. become much smoother and rounded - obviously they must be kept properly to do this of course.Old smokes are rank.
Why should cigars be better with age?
Wine etc i can understand as it continues maturing.
I'd say 15-20 years is optimum for say a powerful cigar like Partagas or Bolivar. Less age for milder cigars such as Upmann and Montecristo. Cohiba's do not age much over 5 years because of the 3rd fermentation they go through.. they're already quite smooth and round yet powerful and ageing does improve them but not for 20 years. I've had Cohiba Robusto 1985 and 1995 side by side and the '95 was by far the better smoke.
As a foot note, the oldest Cuban I have smoked was a Carbana Y Carbajal 1870 (a brand no longer produced) It was an interesting smoke because of the age but to be honest just a bit of hot smoke.. rather than an enjoyment.
Any more questions about stogies - I'm happy to expand on the subject - just didn't want to bore you all..
Keep smoking
No direct questions, but just wanted to say I'm quite enjoying this thread!
I quit smoking cigarettes 3 (or is it 4?) years ago, and have in the past year enjoyed 2 cigars. I quite like the idea of, at special occasions, enjoying a big old cigar and so the results of this thread I will read with interest!
Ta
I quit smoking cigarettes 3 (or is it 4?) years ago, and have in the past year enjoyed 2 cigars. I quite like the idea of, at special occasions, enjoying a big old cigar and so the results of this thread I will read with interest!
Ta
Gorvid said:
Cigars..
What are the defining characteristics of good and bad ones??
What price do they start getting good at??
What to look out for...?
Phhrr.. big questions Gorvid - its never black and white of course, much like wine.What are the defining characteristics of good and bad ones??
What price do they start getting good at??
What to look out for...?
Personally, I'd say stick with Havanas, whilst Dominican ect can be a decent smoke they will never be able to replicate the complexity and third dimension of a Cuban smoke.
Its simply down to soil, microclimate.. again, very much like wine. The quality of a cigar essentially comes down to the raw product, the leaves. As in grapes for wine.
Price.. well it depends where you buy. UK of course has huge tobacco taxes so Cubans are expensive. Then comes down to size, brand, age. You can get a decent Cuban for £10.
Or, you can buy on trips abroad where taxes are low, Spain, France, Switzerland (you might even be able to buy over the net and.. err.. get the to post them to you.. (I didn't say that
)What to look out for - well, you just need to find you brand and style I guess. Try a few different brands, say a mild Upmann, a Montecristo and then a powerful Partagas. Then you'll be able to make up your own mind what your preference is..
Hope that's some help to you.
TonyHetherington said:
I quite like the idea of, at special occasions, enjoying a big old cigar and so the results of this thread I will read with interest!
Ta
Its very much the way I see it - its not bad for your health if you 'save' the occasion for special times - very much like dipping into a nice Red or Malt - and I thought it a nice gift for the FIL.Ta
I don't pretend to know anything about the things, but I do enjoy the sensation and occasion of sharing a moment with someone else and something rolled on the legs of virgins
Edited by neil_bolton on Tuesday 10th July 12:13
I also found it fascinating to read the Cigar Etiquette:
In 1967 Zino Davidoff outlined a protocol for smokers in his noted essay for connoisseurs. It is a charter and code for cigar smokers everywhere, and it remains as valid today as when he first wrote it. Among his directives were the following do’s and don'ts:
DON'T
Edited for bloody formatting
In 1967 Zino Davidoff outlined a protocol for smokers in his noted essay for connoisseurs. It is a charter and code for cigar smokers everywhere, and it remains as valid today as when he first wrote it. Among his directives were the following do’s and don'ts:
DON'T
- Use a penknife to cut or a lance to pierce the end of the cigar.
- Touch the flame directly to the foot of the cigar: Instead simply rotate it around the edge till it starts to burn, then puff lightly.
- Ask someone else for a light ('The lighting of a cigar should be a personal affair').
- Light your cigar too quickly or too slowly.
- Indulge in exhibitionism in lighting or any other aspect of smoking.
- Relight your cigar if less than one quarter of it is leaf.
- Put the cigar in your mouth to relight it.
- Just scrape off the ash and turn it in the flame for several seconds till it relights.
- Clench it between your teeth.
- Get the end of the cigar wet, chew It, slobber on it.
- Smoke too quickly. Use a cigar holder.
- Stick a toothpick or matchstick in the end of the cigar to help hold it in your mouth.
- Dunk your cigar in port or brandy, a habit attributed to Winston Churchill.
- Smoke while working.
- Hold a cigar between your index and middle finger.
- Smoke when you're walking.
- Smoke more than half the cigar.
- Put the cigar out by crushing it in an ashtray.
- Chain-smoke cigars.
- Warm the foot of the cigar slightly before starting to puff on it.
- Remove the band carefully after lighting the cigar.
- Take your time smoking it; a puff a minute is about right.
- Hold the cigar between your index finger and thumb.
- Let the cigar die a dignified death; after it's smoked halfway, it will go out on its own. *Dispose of the dead cigar discreetly and quickly.
- Wait at least fifteen minutes between cigars; anything less indicates obsessive behaviour.
- The important thing to remember is that we cigar aficionados should present ourselves as considerate and understanding individuals. Changing people's preconceived notions and giving the growing numbers of aficionados a good name is well worth that little extra effort.
Edited for bloody formatting
Edited by neil_bolton on Tuesday 10th July 12:17
'Rolled on the thigh of a virgin'
There is something to this but unfortunately it does sound better than the reality..
This actually comes from the de-stemming of the leaves. The de-stemmers (often ragged ugly old women and I very much doubt they're virgins )
They wrap a leaf around their wrist and with a twisting motion remove the stem from the leaf. THEN, they flatten the leaf over their thighs!
So there you go.. there is some truth to it... unfortunately having seen it, it very much shatters ones imagination of a hot Cuban chica using her inner thigh to produce a smooth and round Havana..
There is something to this but unfortunately it does sound better than the reality..
This actually comes from the de-stemming of the leaves. The de-stemmers (often ragged ugly old women and I very much doubt they're virgins
)They wrap a leaf around their wrist and with a twisting motion remove the stem from the leaf. THEN, they flatten the leaf over their thighs!
So there you go.. there is some truth to it... unfortunately having seen it, it very much shatters ones imagination of a hot Cuban chica using her inner thigh to produce a smooth and round Havana..
Bebs said:
'Rolled on the thigh of a virgin'
There is something to this but unfortunately it does sound better than the reality..
This actually comes from the de-stemming of the leaves. The de-stemmers (often ragged ugly old women and I very much doubt they're virgins )
They wrap a leaf around their wrist and with a twisting motion remove the stem from the leaf. THEN, they flatten the leaf over their thighs!
So there you go.. there is some truth to it... unfortunately having seen it, it very much shatters ones imagination of a hot Cuban chica using her inner thigh to produce a smooth and round Havana..
There is something to this but unfortunately it does sound better than the reality..
This actually comes from the de-stemming of the leaves. The de-stemmers (often ragged ugly old women and I very much doubt they're virgins
)They wrap a leaf around their wrist and with a twisting motion remove the stem from the leaf. THEN, they flatten the leaf over their thighs!
So there you go.. there is some truth to it... unfortunately having seen it, it very much shatters ones imagination of a hot Cuban chica using her inner thigh to produce a smooth and round Havana..
Close but no cigar (badum tish)If its alright with you though, I'll carry on maintaining my imagination of virgins rolling them on their fine thighs
It'll make the cigar so much more pleasurable...TonyHetherington said:
Oh, you've just ruined it now Bebs
Sorry bout that all 
Was trying to clarify - I was shattered myself when I was presented with the reality at the La Corona factory in Havana in 1999
I quickly picked up myself later that evening at a salsa night club though and happily completely forgot about the lack of hot chicas at cigar factories - the contents of the club saw to that
A personal favourite of mine is the Punch Double Corona Cabinet from 1998; still relatively easy to obtain from the better cigar merchants. I'm extremely fond of the Cohibas, and agree that the Siglo VI is infinitely better than the (IMHO) overrated Esplendidos. However, every time I smoke the Punch, I think "This is EXACTLY what I want from a cigar." It's not oppressively strong but it has real depth and length of flavour.
One thing I would say as well is that it's very important to buy from a good, reputable tobacconist. Cigars need to be well-looked after and there's a world of difference between one in good condition and one that's been maintained indifferently.
I see you're going to France, where the cigars are significantly cheaper than the U.K. The Tabac George Cinq, (unsurprisingly) next to the Hotel George Cinq in Paris, has a superb selection and friendly, knowledgeable staff. It's priced accordingly but still much cheaper than London prices.
If you're anywhere near Geneva, Chez Gerard is also very highly spoken of - never been there myself, but a number of friends have and rate it very highly.
Most of all, hope you and your FIL enjoy the cigar.
Mark
One thing I would say as well is that it's very important to buy from a good, reputable tobacconist. Cigars need to be well-looked after and there's a world of difference between one in good condition and one that's been maintained indifferently.
I see you're going to France, where the cigars are significantly cheaper than the U.K. The Tabac George Cinq, (unsurprisingly) next to the Hotel George Cinq in Paris, has a superb selection and friendly, knowledgeable staff. It's priced accordingly but still much cheaper than London prices.
If you're anywhere near Geneva, Chez Gerard is also very highly spoken of - never been there myself, but a number of friends have and rate it very highly.
Most of all, hope you and your FIL enjoy the cigar.
Mark
Speaking as a cigarette smoke (well roll ups actually), I'm pretty much at the bottom of the smoking heirachy, how do you smoke a cigar? Perceived wisdom is that you don't inhale it which as a ciggie smoker sounds a bit odd? Do you just draw it into your mouth and release it backout again? I've tried smoking Hamlets etc and I find it hard work when I do inhale and pointless when I don't?
I'd like to enjoy a nice cigar and I'd even try a pipe just to see, but am I doing something wrong?
I'd like to enjoy a nice cigar and I'd even try a pipe just to see, but am I doing something wrong?
PH cigar night anyone? http://www.conran-restaurants.co.uk/restaurants/ca... - are you still allowed to smoke here?
I fancy one this evening but the lovely summer we are having has made the balcony a no-no and smoking inside would put me in the very bad books
I fancy one this evening but the lovely summer we are having has made the balcony a no-no and smoking inside would put me in the very bad books
Edited by Maxf on Tuesday 10th July 15:44
NWTony said:
Speaking as a cigarette smoke (well roll ups actually), I'm pretty much at the bottom of the smoking heirachy, how do you smoke a cigar? Perceived wisdom is that you don't inhale it which as a ciggie smoker sounds a bit odd? Do you just draw it into your mouth and release it backout again? I've tried smoking Hamlets etc and I find it hard work when I do inhale and pointless when I don't?
I'd like to enjoy a nice cigar and I'd even try a pipe just to see, but am I doing something wrong?
For me personally, cigarette smoking and cigar smoking are very different things. It's eight years since my last cigarette but I think I still remember what it felt like. I'd like to enjoy a nice cigar and I'd even try a pipe just to see, but am I doing something wrong?
There's an instant hit when you draw on the cigarette which you don't get from a cigar. The pleasure from a cigar builds up while you're smoking it - the flavours get richer and more intense.
If you're waiting for the nicotine hit, it never really comes at a definable moment. You are getting it though; three cigars in an evening make me feel worse the next morning than 20 Camels ever did.
As for the mechanics, you don't inhale - you just draw the smoke into your mouth, and roll it around like a good wine, and enjoy the flavours.
All of the foregoing applies to the better cigars - I'm not sure how rewarding a Hamlet will be, no matter how you smoke it!
Maxf said:
PH cigar night anyone? http://www.conran-restaurants.co.uk/restaurants/ca... - are you still allowed to smoke here?
I fancy one this evening but the lovely summer we are having has made the balcony a no-no and smoking inside would put me in the very bad books
Crazy Bear Hotel, Oxford, Thursday night?? I fancy one this evening but the lovely summer we are having has made the balcony a no-no and smoking inside would put me in the very bad books
Edited by Maxf on Tuesday 10th July 15:44
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