Discussion
One of the things that I am most sobered by is the fact that Dan was as near as made no difference stationary when a motorbike within the speed limit for the road hit him and did himself such serious injury.
Never before have I really given so much thought to exactly what "make sure you can stop in the distance you can see" really means.
I can't help wondering what would've happened if the guy on the bike had come along even a minute later? How far could they have extended the notion of the accident being caused by Dan's driving as opposed to that of the motorcyclist, even though he was riding within the law.
Never before have I really given so much thought to exactly what "make sure you can stop in the distance you can see" really means.
I can't help wondering what would've happened if the guy on the bike had come along even a minute later? How far could they have extended the notion of the accident being caused by Dan's driving as opposed to that of the motorcyclist, even though he was riding within the law.
y2blade said:
1.what injurys did the motorcyclist sustain in the accident?
He suffered some very severe and long lasting injuries, of the type you'd associate with coming off a motorbike and having a big impact. The most accurate list I have is from his solicitors, which listed the following:- Brachial plexus injury to the right hand side (essentially the nerves allowing control and use of his arm)
- Severe lacerations to lungs
- Fracture of the right clavical
- Tear of the oesophagus
- Damage to right eye, resulting in double vision
- Fracture of right radius requiring plating and skin graft
- Chip in 3rd vertebra of neck
- Chip to bone in right ankle
He, and I, were extremely fortunate that the accident didn't kill him. If it hadn't been for the availability of the air ambulance I doubt he'd have made it.
I suppose one thing which made the whole thing worse was that I escaped pretty free of injuries. I tore all the muscles in my neck and upper spine and had a face full of glass, but nothing that wasn't healed within the space of a few weeks.
y2blade said:
2.have you had any contact with him since the accident?
I thought long and hard about when it would be appropriate to contact him and his family. I decided that with proceedings against me more than likely, I didn't want to write and be accused of trying to affect anything, or for him to think that was my motivation. It was hard, because it took a long time getting to court and he must have wondered if I gave a sh*t or not about what I'd done.The first time I saw him since the accident was actually in the waiting area outside the courtroom on the day of sentencing. I was there with my friends and family at one end of the corridor, he was sat at the other end with his partner. If one thing disgusted me that day, it was that Victim Support let him sit there for more than half an hour only yards from me and all the support around me. As if it wasn't bad enough having to confront the end of his normal life personified.
I did write a letter to him the day before I was sentenced and I handed it to the CPS to give to him, which I assume they did. Choosing the words to write, to express how much you do care, to try and make some meaning of what happened is just unbelievably difficult. I hope I'm never in a position where I need to receive such a letter.
At this point I think it would be fair to give the motorcyclist a right to reply. As part of the prosecutino process, victims can give what's called a Victim Personal Statement about the results of what happened. I have his here in front of me and I feel it would really demonstrate how bloody horrific one bad judgement can make things. I'm not sure of the legal or moral standpoint of putting it on here, though parts of it were read out in court. If anyone has a better idea of the legality please feel free to email me about it.
audidoody said:
10 Pence - your fairly courageous post has had much impact on my firm belief that I am the World's Greatest Driver (insert sarcastic smiley) and how our cosy little world can be smashed and destroyed in a split second. I don't mind admitting your words caused me to shed a tear or two. I will drive much more carefully. You should post on Scooby-net, Saxo-net, and the other boy racer forums. You might cause someone else to slow down enough to save life and limb. Respect.
+1Edited by audidoody on Tuesday 25th September 09:24
Brilliant posts 10pence. Very well written and I for one would certainly buy and read your book.
Thanks for sharing.
Incidentally- You mentioned that you could not profit from a book, and perhaps donating it to the Air Ambulance, presumably it has occured to you to give any proceeds to the victim?
Thanks for sharing.
Incidentally- You mentioned that you could not profit from a book, and perhaps donating it to the Air Ambulance, presumably it has occured to you to give any proceeds to the victim?
Kermit power said:
One of the things that I am most sobered by is the fact that Dan was as near as made no difference stationary when a motorbike within the speed limit for the road hit him and did himself such serious injury.
Never before have I really given so much thought to exactly what "make sure you can stop in the distance you can see" really means.
I can't help wondering what would've happened if the guy on the bike had come along even a minute later? How far could they have extended the notion of the accident being caused by Dan's driving as opposed to that of the motorcyclist, even though he was riding within the law.
Never before have I really given so much thought to exactly what "make sure you can stop in the distance you can see" really means.
I can't help wondering what would've happened if the guy on the bike had come along even a minute later? How far could they have extended the notion of the accident being caused by Dan's driving as opposed to that of the motorcyclist, even though he was riding within the law.
Gizmo535 said:
10 Pence Short said:
1) To what degree was the motorcyclist contributory (if any) eg by going round the bend too fast?
The motorcyclist did absolutely nothing wrong. There was a full accident investigation unit at the scene (the road was closed for 5 hours to measure up and photograph). They estimated that his speed was between 30 and 60 mph. He was measured to have had only 36 metres to see my vehicle blocking the road (and still moving slowly towards him), react and brake. Even at the lower end of that scale, he wouldn't have enough time to have braked and avoided my car. From memory they deduced that he had between 1.1 and 2.2 seconds to react. He was not 'on a jolly', he was travelling from his home to a holiday cottage in the lakes.
He was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could easily have been a car or even a truck coming the other way. Sadly for him, it was a vulnerable motorbike.
Firstly thanks for being so candid and writing so well, I'm looking forward to further instalments. There but for the grace of various deities go us all - and I'm sure nearly all of us have had close shaves and 'what if' moments occasionally.The motorcyclist did absolutely nothing wrong. There was a full accident investigation unit at the scene (the road was closed for 5 hours to measure up and photograph). They estimated that his speed was between 30 and 60 mph. He was measured to have had only 36 metres to see my vehicle blocking the road (and still moving slowly towards him), react and brake. Even at the lower end of that scale, he wouldn't have enough time to have braked and avoided my car. From memory they deduced that he had between 1.1 and 2.2 seconds to react. He was not 'on a jolly', he was travelling from his home to a holiday cottage in the lakes.
He was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could easily have been a car or even a truck coming the other way. Sadly for him, it was a vulnerable motorbike.
But I have to ask... of course the rider was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I think you were just about still moving, so that would affect it. However the over-riding rule should surely be that you should always be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear? What if there was a fallen tree where your car was? A straw bale, sofa, or something else that had fallen off a truck? A deer or escaped cow? Even a car parked there for whatever reason (we've all seen cars stopped for stupid reasons on twisty roads).
The point is that 10PS admitted he was driving like a dick, and has been punished for it - however I cannot help but think what would have happened if it had been a car that had broken down in the place he was occupying, and said biker came round the corner and either hit the car of the broken down vehicle - or a person exiting the car.
Where would the blame have been in this case? Would this have been prosecuted? I think the outcome for the rider could have been very different - same injuries, but he could have been in the same sort of trouble as 10PS was.
Other point is if the injured biker hit the car, how did the other bikes following manage to avoid it?
(sorry just re-read and see bike was catapulted backwards from scene of crash so other bikes would have seen).
Edited by Fats25 on Wednesday 24th October 14:56
Fats25 said:
This was my thoughts as well - I ride a bike - as I think Kermit does as well (I may be wrong).
The point is that 10PS admitted he was driving like a dick, and has been punished for it - however I cannot help but think what would have happened if it had been a car that had broken down in the place he was occupying, and said biker came round the corner and either hit the car of the broken down vehicle - or a person exiting the car.
Where would the blame have been in this case? Would this have been prosecuted? I think the outcome for the rider could have been very different - same injuries, but he could have been in the same sort of trouble as 10PS was.
Other point is if the injured biker hit the car, how did the other bikes following manage to avoid it?
good questions...i see what you meanThe point is that 10PS admitted he was driving like a dick, and has been punished for it - however I cannot help but think what would have happened if it had been a car that had broken down in the place he was occupying, and said biker came round the corner and either hit the car of the broken down vehicle - or a person exiting the car.
Where would the blame have been in this case? Would this have been prosecuted? I think the outcome for the rider could have been very different - same injuries, but he could have been in the same sort of trouble as 10PS was.
Other point is if the injured biker hit the car, how did the other bikes following manage to avoid it?
yes i ride bikes too
y2blade said:
Fats25 said:
This was my thoughts as well - I ride a bike - as I think Kermit does as well (I may be wrong).
The point is that 10PS admitted he was driving like a dick, and has been punished for it - however I cannot help but think what would have happened if it had been a car that had broken down in the place he was occupying, and said biker came round the corner and either hit the car of the broken down vehicle - or a person exiting the car.
Where would the blame have been in this case? Would this have been prosecuted? I think the outcome for the rider could have been very different - same injuries, but he could have been in the same sort of trouble as 10PS was.
Other point is if the injured biker hit the car, how did the other bikes following manage to avoid it?
good questions...i see what you meanThe point is that 10PS admitted he was driving like a dick, and has been punished for it - however I cannot help but think what would have happened if it had been a car that had broken down in the place he was occupying, and said biker came round the corner and either hit the car of the broken down vehicle - or a person exiting the car.
Where would the blame have been in this case? Would this have been prosecuted? I think the outcome for the rider could have been very different - same injuries, but he could have been in the same sort of trouble as 10PS was.
Other point is if the injured biker hit the car, how did the other bikes following manage to avoid it?
yes i ride bikes too
Or maybe they actually rode within their visible stopping distance?
Just to clarify- I was completely blocking the road at the point of impact with the bike. He came around a blind left hand corner and had between 1 and 2 seconds of seeing my car before impact. Even at 30mph it would have been difficult to have avoided me.
After the initial impact my car was thrown back across to my own side of the road and much more visible to oncoming traffic of both directions. There were a number of cars in both directions who were in the vicinity when the crash happened so the road soon came to a halt, anyway.
Considering the chap was most likely on his way from his home in the North East to his holiday cottage in Keswick, I've no reason to believe he was on a 'hoon' or driving quickly at all, either.
After the initial impact my car was thrown back across to my own side of the road and much more visible to oncoming traffic of both directions. There were a number of cars in both directions who were in the vicinity when the crash happened so the road soon came to a halt, anyway.
Considering the chap was most likely on his way from his home in the North East to his holiday cottage in Keswick, I've no reason to believe he was on a 'hoon' or driving quickly at all, either.
10p- this is a great thread and as said before its real life stories like this which make us more aware of how dangerous driving can be not the vans on the side of the road!
Btw did you also receive a ban from driving as well as the prison sentence? How long was it for?
Btw did you also receive a ban from driving as well as the prison sentence? How long was it for?
Edited by FiveStar on Wednesday 24th October 16:06
10 Pence Short said:
Just to clarify- I was completely blocking the road at the point of impact with the bike. He came around a blind left hand corner and had between 1 and 2 seconds of seeing my car before impact. Even at 30mph it would have been difficult to have avoided me.
After the initial impact my car was thrown back across to my own side of the road and much more visible to oncoming traffic of both directions. There were a number of cars in both directions who were in the vicinity when the crash happened so the road soon came to a halt, anyway.
Considering the chap was most likely on his way from his home in the North East to his holiday cottage in Keswick, I've no reason to believe he was on a 'hoon' or driving quickly at all, either.
That is not the point I was trying to make. I appreciate your honesty in what happened - it is what I think anyone with morals would have done. However there are those that would not - and may have "got away with it".After the initial impact my car was thrown back across to my own side of the road and much more visible to oncoming traffic of both directions. There were a number of cars in both directions who were in the vicinity when the crash happened so the road soon came to a halt, anyway.
Considering the chap was most likely on his way from his home in the North East to his holiday cottage in Keswick, I've no reason to believe he was on a 'hoon' or driving quickly at all, either.
Obviously I do not know the road in question - but the point I was making was that even if it was a blind corner, and you were blocking the road, he did not stop in time. You were obviously at fault here - you know that - but it could have been someone innocently parked across the road - breakdown, pushing car out of way, minor head on accident etc etc. If biker had hit them and injured them - my money is on the biker would have been prosecuted for not stopping in time!
Maybe I am a cynic - but I think that is what would have happened. As you are all too aware - it is a very thin line between what could have happened, and what did. Or some may call it lucky or unlucky.
turbo tim said:
10 Pence Short said:
The catastrophic injuries caused to the motorcyclist were also key in ensuring a custodial sentence was necessary.
This is the fundamental flaw in the British Judicial system IMHO – it should be the action that is judged, rather then the consequence.I agree that this is a flaw and leads to an element of a "wrong place, wrong time" situation rather than closely scrutinising the driving of those facing the sentance.
oyster said:
I have another question 10PS. You admitted guilt in court, but if you had pleaded not-guilty what difference would that have made? Would yiou have received a longer sentence?
If you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity, you receive a 30% 'discount' on the sentence that would be passed had you decided to fight the case and lost. The later you decide to plead guilty, the less the percentage of discount. In my case I would have received an 18 month sentence and served about 4.5 months in prison before being released on curfew.I won't lie and pretend I didn't try to defend myself. I offered the CPS a guilty plea if they reduced it to a Careless Driving charge. The evidence however, on face value, was strong enough that they were confident of a guilty verdict at Crown Court. At that stage, it was a decision about how long I wanted to spend in prison. Based on the evidence, I wanted to fight a lot of it, but if I did that and lost, it would mean an extra few months inside cursing my pride. Having been responsible for the accident, the injuries the victim sustained and the lack of injuries on my part, a jury was unlikely to feel sorry for me in any way, and as such a not guilty verdict was looking more than unlikely.
10 Pence Short said:
oyster said:
I have another question 10PS. You admitted guilt in court, but if you had pleaded not-guilty what difference would that have made? Would yiou have received a longer sentence?
If you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity, you receive a 30% 'discount' on the sentence that would be passed had you decided to fight the case and lost. The later you decide to plead guilty, the less the percentage of discount. In my case I would have received an 18 month sentence and served about 4.5 months in prison before being released on curfew.I won't lie and pretend I didn't try to defend myself. I offered the CPS a guilty plea if they reduced it to a Careless Driving charge. The evidence however, on face value, was strong enough that they were confident of a guilty verdict at Crown Court. At that stage, it was a decision about how long I wanted to spend in prison. Based on the evidence, I wanted to fight a lot of it, but if I did that and lost, it would mean an extra few months inside cursing my pride. Having been responsible for the accident, the injuries the victim sustained and the lack of injuries on my part, a jury was unlikely to feel sorry for me in any way, and as such a not guilty verdict was looking more than unlikely.
The Injured Motorcyclist said:
After the accident I now suffer with continuous pain with the nerves from my paralysed right hand and arm which used to be my dominant side
I have been prescribed four different types of pills to be taken four times a day without fail to try and ease the pain these help to a certain extent until temperature changes moving from one room to another going outside is the most excrutiating pain imaginable I can only describe it as holding my hand and arm in boiling cooking oil. This pain is as constant as breathing in and out it wears me down to the point where I have to ease the pain by taking morphine unwillingly but necessary.
I am now unable to do the most mundane jobs from washing myself even tying shoe laces is impossible driving to the shops is a thing of the past.
The last four years my partner and I have owned a caravan in the Lake District our escape from the hustle and bustle of everyday life we travelled on motorcycles which has been a lifetime involvement this route we have travelled for years and treat this particular route with respect. The day our life's changed we were on our way to the lakes.
I woke up in intensive care with my partner by my side apparently I was hit by a car travelling on the wrong side of the road my partner was seconds behind and seen me in the middle of the road lying unconscious ever since then my partner has been reliving the shocking experience over again every night.
If it hadn't been for the luck of two motorcyclists one knowing first aid the paramedics, police, air ambulance, trauma team and everyone involved my partner and I will be eternally grateful but take one link out of the chain of Samritans I would not be living today.
The offshore career which I've had for the last 13 years was abruptly stopped and will never continue due to the loss of my right arm which was explained to me by the surgeon he also said forget the person you used to be you will never be like that again. It was only a few years before in cases like mine the arm would have been amputated.
My whole world has been turned upside down I used to repair all kinds of machinery in the oil industry looking after multi million pounds worth of engines and equipment now I cannot even fasten my own laces. I am also having to write with my left hand the simple task of putting my watch on and off cannot be done without help am at a loss at the prospect of my future employment.
I used to be physically fit running eight kilometres in between weight training every other day the paramedic at the scene commented that if it had not been for my muscle mass and fitness it may have been a different outcome my muscle took the impact from my internal organs which helped to save my life.
Two decades of lifting weights and physical fitness which missing a day made me feel guilty now I struggle to walk even small distances without having to put my arm around my partner for support, now my partner has the burdon of trying to be my right arm as well as looking after two children.
Since leaving the hospital after the initial accident I have had nerve transfer operations one involving a nine and a half hour operation in theatre leaving me with skin grafts and scars from the neck downwards and will be having more in the future. I have been fortunate in one way that double vision which occured during the impact to my head has nearly returned to normal this gave me a break from more surgery which the eye specialist had planned.
The second operation with the renowned Professor Kay of St James hospital in Leeds who has given me the chance to move my hand and arm if everything goes to plan if not more operations will have to be undertaken.
My every day life has changed dramatically I wake up in the morning still thinking I have the use of my right hand and arm until I try to move, then the realisation of what happened has to be accepted all over again. Washing myself is not a task I can do alone a bath has to be planned in advance.
Due to the sever impact to my head my memory has been affected both long and short terms for example not recognising the police officer heading the case after meeting him previously, my partner stepped in to save my embarrassment reminding me, this happens a lot with friends hospital staff who know me but I can't seem to place them. I also repeat myself a lot ask the same questions over a space of time its not until this is pointed out to me that I become aware of this. I think it is fair to say this is a tiny example of how this accident has impacted on my life it is not the life I had prior and to be honest my life was pretty good. This is an ongoing battle which some days I seem to be losing others I get through this is not what I thought I would be like at the age of 42, the worst and hardest thing of all is I was going about my own business and someone else's action has devastated my whole future.
Every day is becoming mentally harder and harder as the realisation of what happened slowly sinks in and the thought of the rest of my life trying to cope with the dragging around a useless lump of flesh and bone that just hangs off my body
There's nothing I can or need to say about that, I just hope by reading this thread someone might in the future avoid being either party in the whole sorry affair.I have been prescribed four different types of pills to be taken four times a day without fail to try and ease the pain these help to a certain extent until temperature changes moving from one room to another going outside is the most excrutiating pain imaginable I can only describe it as holding my hand and arm in boiling cooking oil. This pain is as constant as breathing in and out it wears me down to the point where I have to ease the pain by taking morphine unwillingly but necessary.
I am now unable to do the most mundane jobs from washing myself even tying shoe laces is impossible driving to the shops is a thing of the past.
The last four years my partner and I have owned a caravan in the Lake District our escape from the hustle and bustle of everyday life we travelled on motorcycles which has been a lifetime involvement this route we have travelled for years and treat this particular route with respect. The day our life's changed we were on our way to the lakes.
I woke up in intensive care with my partner by my side apparently I was hit by a car travelling on the wrong side of the road my partner was seconds behind and seen me in the middle of the road lying unconscious ever since then my partner has been reliving the shocking experience over again every night.
If it hadn't been for the luck of two motorcyclists one knowing first aid the paramedics, police, air ambulance, trauma team and everyone involved my partner and I will be eternally grateful but take one link out of the chain of Samritans I would not be living today.
The offshore career which I've had for the last 13 years was abruptly stopped and will never continue due to the loss of my right arm which was explained to me by the surgeon he also said forget the person you used to be you will never be like that again. It was only a few years before in cases like mine the arm would have been amputated.
My whole world has been turned upside down I used to repair all kinds of machinery in the oil industry looking after multi million pounds worth of engines and equipment now I cannot even fasten my own laces. I am also having to write with my left hand the simple task of putting my watch on and off cannot be done without help am at a loss at the prospect of my future employment.
I used to be physically fit running eight kilometres in between weight training every other day the paramedic at the scene commented that if it had not been for my muscle mass and fitness it may have been a different outcome my muscle took the impact from my internal organs which helped to save my life.
Two decades of lifting weights and physical fitness which missing a day made me feel guilty now I struggle to walk even small distances without having to put my arm around my partner for support, now my partner has the burdon of trying to be my right arm as well as looking after two children.
Since leaving the hospital after the initial accident I have had nerve transfer operations one involving a nine and a half hour operation in theatre leaving me with skin grafts and scars from the neck downwards and will be having more in the future. I have been fortunate in one way that double vision which occured during the impact to my head has nearly returned to normal this gave me a break from more surgery which the eye specialist had planned.
The second operation with the renowned Professor Kay of St James hospital in Leeds who has given me the chance to move my hand and arm if everything goes to plan if not more operations will have to be undertaken.
My every day life has changed dramatically I wake up in the morning still thinking I have the use of my right hand and arm until I try to move, then the realisation of what happened has to be accepted all over again. Washing myself is not a task I can do alone a bath has to be planned in advance.
Due to the sever impact to my head my memory has been affected both long and short terms for example not recognising the police officer heading the case after meeting him previously, my partner stepped in to save my embarrassment reminding me, this happens a lot with friends hospital staff who know me but I can't seem to place them. I also repeat myself a lot ask the same questions over a space of time its not until this is pointed out to me that I become aware of this. I think it is fair to say this is a tiny example of how this accident has impacted on my life it is not the life I had prior and to be honest my life was pretty good. This is an ongoing battle which some days I seem to be losing others I get through this is not what I thought I would be like at the age of 42, the worst and hardest thing of all is I was going about my own business and someone else's action has devastated my whole future.
Every day is becoming mentally harder and harder as the realisation of what happened slowly sinks in and the thought of the rest of my life trying to cope with the dragging around a useless lump of flesh and bone that just hangs off my body
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