Discussion
Read this thread the other day, bloody hell does it make you think. I like to think I drive relatively sensibly and don't take unnecessary risks, but even so it shows the consequences of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I know I'll also be more mindful of other road users perception of my driving.
A case in point...
A few weeks ago I caught up with a van following some old dodderer on my drive home. The route is mainly NSL B roads, some twistys but plenty of places where it opens up, and in my opinion you can do 60 quite safely and ease off on some of the sharper bends. The old dodderer was averaging about 40, slowing to 30 on some bends and perhaps hitting 50 on the straights. I held back to wait for the van to overtake, but after a couple of wasted opportunities realised it wasn't going to, so on the next straight nothing coming the other way so I blasted past both (and got the obligatory headlight flash). About 30 seconds further up the road I round a bend and could see a car coming the other way had stopped, waiting to turn right into a small scout hut's car park. I can also see a car waiting to pull out of the car park, so I ease off the accelerator. I cover the brake just in case, and as I approach the car decides to pull out of the car park across my path. Luckily I wasn't still carrying any of the speed from my earlier overtake, so was able to slam the brakes on and slow down enough to avoid an accident.
Near miss, but other than a bit shaken up no harm done. However, I did think afterwards about how it might have panned out if there had been an accident. Although arguably hard to attribute much blame to me as the other driver pulled out without looking (properly), there might have been a few factors to count against me which might have changed the outcome:
- Old dodderer as a witness for me "driving like a maniac"
- Van driver to possibly back that up
- Driver of the car waiting to turn into car park quite likely to know the other driver (assume both have kids in the scout group) so might side with their friend with accusations of speeding.
- Although it's only a 2 litre diesel, to non car people my bright red Focus looks more sporty/faster than it is, so cue boy racer accusations.
In 10PS's situation, if he'd lost control 10 seconds earlier it's likely he'd have corrected and avoided any incident. If it had been a car rather than a bike coming the other way injuries would probably been a lot less severe and so a lesser charge might have been brought against him. If there had been no witnesses to his driving before the incident would there have been the evidence to prosecute as they did? I don't say this to pass judgement on 10PS, or debate the manner of his driving, or whether the sentence was fair. Only my thoughts on how someone's driving is perceived by others, and what the consequences could mean... I know after reading this thread I drove home a lot more sedately than before...
A case in point...
A few weeks ago I caught up with a van following some old dodderer on my drive home. The route is mainly NSL B roads, some twistys but plenty of places where it opens up, and in my opinion you can do 60 quite safely and ease off on some of the sharper bends. The old dodderer was averaging about 40, slowing to 30 on some bends and perhaps hitting 50 on the straights. I held back to wait for the van to overtake, but after a couple of wasted opportunities realised it wasn't going to, so on the next straight nothing coming the other way so I blasted past both (and got the obligatory headlight flash). About 30 seconds further up the road I round a bend and could see a car coming the other way had stopped, waiting to turn right into a small scout hut's car park. I can also see a car waiting to pull out of the car park, so I ease off the accelerator. I cover the brake just in case, and as I approach the car decides to pull out of the car park across my path. Luckily I wasn't still carrying any of the speed from my earlier overtake, so was able to slam the brakes on and slow down enough to avoid an accident.
Near miss, but other than a bit shaken up no harm done. However, I did think afterwards about how it might have panned out if there had been an accident. Although arguably hard to attribute much blame to me as the other driver pulled out without looking (properly), there might have been a few factors to count against me which might have changed the outcome:
- Old dodderer as a witness for me "driving like a maniac"
- Van driver to possibly back that up
- Driver of the car waiting to turn into car park quite likely to know the other driver (assume both have kids in the scout group) so might side with their friend with accusations of speeding.
- Although it's only a 2 litre diesel, to non car people my bright red Focus looks more sporty/faster than it is, so cue boy racer accusations.
In 10PS's situation, if he'd lost control 10 seconds earlier it's likely he'd have corrected and avoided any incident. If it had been a car rather than a bike coming the other way injuries would probably been a lot less severe and so a lesser charge might have been brought against him. If there had been no witnesses to his driving before the incident would there have been the evidence to prosecute as they did? I don't say this to pass judgement on 10PS, or debate the manner of his driving, or whether the sentence was fair. Only my thoughts on how someone's driving is perceived by others, and what the consequences could mean... I know after reading this thread I drove home a lot more sedately than before...
Andehh said:
Just to post this as well. I have spent too many hours re-reading this thread, as a reminder of how quickly things can change for someone.
Unfortunately looking at 10 Pence Short's post history he has been AWOL for a few years now. Can only hope he managed to settle some of his demons.
He stopped posting under that name and appeared under at least one new ID. Unfortunately looking at 10 Pence Short's post history he has been AWOL for a few years now. Can only hope he managed to settle some of his demons.
Very thought provoking, harrowing in places. I'm glad I've read this and I hope that the stories shared on this post stick with me and prevent any moment of madness. Hope 10 pence short is getting on well, the biker is living his life as well as he can and anyone else who shared something on this thread is also well.
Drive safe everyone
Drive safe everyone
Interesting thread. Sympathise with you 10P, however looking forward to being able to go for a pint on your release whilst the unfortunate biker has a life-sentence still makes you a 
in my book.
People like you are the reason my old-man sold his bike. One too many near misses with distracted / inattentive / 'couldn't give a s**t' car drivers. Reading the comments from one or two people on here about selling their M5 (or whatever) got me thinking about what my dad did. He bought a new 2016 model MX5. Despite thinking that they were pretty gay / a hairdresser's car, he bought one anyway. The salesman (who also drove one) told him before his test drive that once he'd driven it, he would see that this car was the closest motoring experience to riding a motorbike. After his test drive my dad told him that he (the salesman) had clearly never ridden a motorbike, that the car was a tame as f**k, but he'd buy it anyway as he wanted a small light rwd car that might in some small way recreate the driving fun he had in his old Mk2 Escort Mexico replica of many years ago. A few months later, he's glad he bought it, as it's a car that offers more fun than many cars but all at modest (licence saving) speeds - which as a self employed driver he needs.
Too many careless whallopers in cars these day, too lenient sentencing for people who might permanently disable you due to their stupidity, fellow riders who are more interested in polishing & posing & using their bike ownership as a conversation piece at the office, and dealers who make you wait weeks for an appointment before charging exorbitant rates for dangerous slip-shod workmanship. Yes, unfortunately biking is slowly dying out in this country and becoming an old man's hobby.
in my book. People like you are the reason my old-man sold his bike. One too many near misses with distracted / inattentive / 'couldn't give a s**t' car drivers. Reading the comments from one or two people on here about selling their M5 (or whatever) got me thinking about what my dad did. He bought a new 2016 model MX5. Despite thinking that they were pretty gay / a hairdresser's car, he bought one anyway. The salesman (who also drove one) told him before his test drive that once he'd driven it, he would see that this car was the closest motoring experience to riding a motorbike. After his test drive my dad told him that he (the salesman) had clearly never ridden a motorbike, that the car was a tame as f**k, but he'd buy it anyway as he wanted a small light rwd car that might in some small way recreate the driving fun he had in his old Mk2 Escort Mexico replica of many years ago. A few months later, he's glad he bought it, as it's a car that offers more fun than many cars but all at modest (licence saving) speeds - which as a self employed driver he needs.
Too many careless whallopers in cars these day, too lenient sentencing for people who might permanently disable you due to their stupidity, fellow riders who are more interested in polishing & posing & using their bike ownership as a conversation piece at the office, and dealers who make you wait weeks for an appointment before charging exorbitant rates for dangerous slip-shod workmanship. Yes, unfortunately biking is slowly dying out in this country and becoming an old man's hobby.
Hammi159159 said:
Interesting thread. Sympathise with you 10P, however looking forward to being able to go for a pint on your release whilst
Interesting take on it, would you prefer that he did??I understand your OTT sentiment (but strongly disagree) he did the time as sentenced, and at some point needs to be able to move on in someway/shape/form - I'm not suggesting for a moment that this absolves him from what he has done but at some point you have to start living life - and on the exit from prison is the most opportune moment to do that
(or has school just finished early this year and I'm due a Whoosh?)
What a post - epic in pistonhead land, I just spent time reading this and it made me think, really made me think. Suddenly just how quickly a hoon can go bad, that it goes pear shaped. Respect to the author and well written.
10 Pence Short said:
I caused an accident after losing control of my car. It was sideways straddling both sides of a B road, a motorcyclist coming the other way came around a blind bend to be confronted with a car blocking the road. The impact launched him over my (destroyed) car and dumped him on the middle of the road, unconcious. His bike had been thrown some 14 metres back the way it came. My car dangled precariously over the edge of a drop past the verge.
After about a minute or so of getting my breath back following the airbag deploying, I realised I'd caused a very serious accident. I'd seen the motorcyclist only for a split second before the impact imploded against the B piller behind my head and shattered every window on the car. My sunglasses had disappeared from my face, glass from the door window was mingled with blood dripping from my face.
There was no way of opening the drivers door, I clambered over the passenger seat and observed one of the worst sights of my life.
For about 50 metres down the direction I'd come from, were the tell tale black lines of a skidding car. These were only interrupted by gouge marks on the road surface where car had met bike. In the middle of this lay the biker, motionless, unconscious, a mess. Onlookers, other motorists, were out of their cars but nothing more than background fuzz.
By the time I got out of the car, some other bikers had begun trying to help the badly injured guy laying on the centreline of the road. For a long minute, he didn't move, he didn't seem to breath. I'd just killed a man. Then some movement, some spluttering. Blind panic from someone who's just woken up to wish that he hadn't. His girlfriend, who had been a few minutes further behind on her own bike, arrived. Screaming and wailing, wondering how this has come to happen. No doubt a million thoughts all arriving at once. Most of them fearing the worst.
First aiders helped on the scene, I didn't know how to help medically. I was guilty, impotent and wondering how I'd gone from an enthusiastic drive to a potential killer in the space of 50 metres. It only took 3 or 4 minutes for the Police to arrive, I volunteered myself immediately as the guilty party. I was breath tested and questioned on-scene, sat in a Volvo, bleeding on the back seats whilst in full view of the prone motorcyclist, by this time being worked on by the paramedics who'd arrived, hoping the patient could last long enough for the air ambulance to arrive.
I'll never forget that poor man, lying there screaming for his helmet to be taken off, his girlfriend in tears and despair and me, not badly injured, no reason to have caused this, other than wanting to enjoy the road.
The motorcyclist spent days in intensive care, being treated for most of his right arm being smashed to pieces, his collarbone wrecked, serious head injuries, damaged eye socket, chipped bones on his ankle and a massive nerve injury. A year later and even after a number of operations, he still has many to go to correct his broken body and his impaired eyesight. The nerve damage to his dominant right arm means he'll never regain full use of it. He can no longer support his children by working on the rigs as he did beforehand.
My car was impounded by the Police and kept from the day of the accident, 30th April 2006 until the July. I was first formally interviewed in June 2006, then again in September. I was charged via postal summons in November last year. Magistrates passed the case to Crown Court on 13/12/06, as their sentencing powers were not sufficient and at that point I knew I was going to prison.
10 days short of a year after my accident, I pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment and banned from driving for 3 years, for dangerous driving. Aside from the odd speeding conviction (I was driving 65,000 miles a year for the previous 10 years), I had never been in trouble with the Police before.
There was no feeling, no shock, no crying or anger when I was sent down from that court room. Just numbness. As the judge finished his sentencing, I had just one opportunity of shouting to my other half how much I loved her, before being lead into the downstairs of the court. The guard, a nice guy in his late 50s, explained that he had to handcuff me to himself, and down I went. Immediately down, through a number of locked, barred gates, to a booking in counter. All my possessions, and my belt, taken. My height measured. All my details recorded. Then 4 hours in a windowless cell with nothing but a wooden bench and contemplation for company.
4.30pm on a sunny Friday afternoon, leaving a happy looking Carlisle, but for me, in the back of a paddywagon. Watching people leaving school and work with a smile on their faces, looking forward to a weekend of choices. I was heading to HMP Durham.
You can say what you like about prison, and how easy it is, how great you think the facilities are, how prison is like a holiday camp. It's none of those things. It's a demeaning, soul-less place full of sad and sometimes evil people who have lives none of us would ever want or even imagine. All the freedoms you take for granted are removed in the name of control and security to the point that you're constantly reminded how little value society as a whole places on your miserable little existence.
I could write reams and reams about the prison system and the feelings being in it evoke, but I fear to do so would be heavy reading for the casual PHer. I would be happy to answer any questions people have about prison or my ordeal, though.
After about a minute or so of getting my breath back following the airbag deploying, I realised I'd caused a very serious accident. I'd seen the motorcyclist only for a split second before the impact imploded against the B piller behind my head and shattered every window on the car. My sunglasses had disappeared from my face, glass from the door window was mingled with blood dripping from my face.
There was no way of opening the drivers door, I clambered over the passenger seat and observed one of the worst sights of my life.
For about 50 metres down the direction I'd come from, were the tell tale black lines of a skidding car. These were only interrupted by gouge marks on the road surface where car had met bike. In the middle of this lay the biker, motionless, unconscious, a mess. Onlookers, other motorists, were out of their cars but nothing more than background fuzz.
By the time I got out of the car, some other bikers had begun trying to help the badly injured guy laying on the centreline of the road. For a long minute, he didn't move, he didn't seem to breath. I'd just killed a man. Then some movement, some spluttering. Blind panic from someone who's just woken up to wish that he hadn't. His girlfriend, who had been a few minutes further behind on her own bike, arrived. Screaming and wailing, wondering how this has come to happen. No doubt a million thoughts all arriving at once. Most of them fearing the worst.
First aiders helped on the scene, I didn't know how to help medically. I was guilty, impotent and wondering how I'd gone from an enthusiastic drive to a potential killer in the space of 50 metres. It only took 3 or 4 minutes for the Police to arrive, I volunteered myself immediately as the guilty party. I was breath tested and questioned on-scene, sat in a Volvo, bleeding on the back seats whilst in full view of the prone motorcyclist, by this time being worked on by the paramedics who'd arrived, hoping the patient could last long enough for the air ambulance to arrive.
I'll never forget that poor man, lying there screaming for his helmet to be taken off, his girlfriend in tears and despair and me, not badly injured, no reason to have caused this, other than wanting to enjoy the road.
The motorcyclist spent days in intensive care, being treated for most of his right arm being smashed to pieces, his collarbone wrecked, serious head injuries, damaged eye socket, chipped bones on his ankle and a massive nerve injury. A year later and even after a number of operations, he still has many to go to correct his broken body and his impaired eyesight. The nerve damage to his dominant right arm means he'll never regain full use of it. He can no longer support his children by working on the rigs as he did beforehand.
My car was impounded by the Police and kept from the day of the accident, 30th April 2006 until the July. I was first formally interviewed in June 2006, then again in September. I was charged via postal summons in November last year. Magistrates passed the case to Crown Court on 13/12/06, as their sentencing powers were not sufficient and at that point I knew I was going to prison.
10 days short of a year after my accident, I pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment and banned from driving for 3 years, for dangerous driving. Aside from the odd speeding conviction (I was driving 65,000 miles a year for the previous 10 years), I had never been in trouble with the Police before.
There was no feeling, no shock, no crying or anger when I was sent down from that court room. Just numbness. As the judge finished his sentencing, I had just one opportunity of shouting to my other half how much I loved her, before being lead into the downstairs of the court. The guard, a nice guy in his late 50s, explained that he had to handcuff me to himself, and down I went. Immediately down, through a number of locked, barred gates, to a booking in counter. All my possessions, and my belt, taken. My height measured. All my details recorded. Then 4 hours in a windowless cell with nothing but a wooden bench and contemplation for company.
4.30pm on a sunny Friday afternoon, leaving a happy looking Carlisle, but for me, in the back of a paddywagon. Watching people leaving school and work with a smile on their faces, looking forward to a weekend of choices. I was heading to HMP Durham.
You can say what you like about prison, and how easy it is, how great you think the facilities are, how prison is like a holiday camp. It's none of those things. It's a demeaning, soul-less place full of sad and sometimes evil people who have lives none of us would ever want or even imagine. All the freedoms you take for granted are removed in the name of control and security to the point that you're constantly reminded how little value society as a whole places on your miserable little existence.
I could write reams and reams about the prison system and the feelings being in it evoke, but I fear to do so would be heavy reading for the casual PHer. I would be happy to answer any questions people have about prison or my ordeal, though.
Found this, searched for dates and such and this came up, the biker that was affected by the accident
Originally Posted by The Injured Motorcyclist
After the accident I now suffer with continuous pain with the nerves from my paralysed right hand and arm which used to be my dominant side
I have been prescribed four different types of pills to be taken four times a day without fail to try and ease the pain these help to a certain extent until temperature changes moving from one room to another going outside is the most excrutiating pain imaginable I can only describe it as holding my hand and arm in boiling cooking oil. This pain is as constant as breathing in and out it wears me down to the point where I have to ease the pain by taking morphine unwillingly but necessary.
I am now unable to do the most mundane jobs from washing myself even tying shoe laces is impossible driving to the shops is a thing of the past.
The last four years my partner and I have owned a caravan in the Lake District our escape from the hustle and bustle of everyday life we travelled on motorcycles which has been a lifetime involvement this route we have travelled for years and treat this particular route with respect. The day our life's changed we were on our way to the lakes.
I woke up in intensive care with my partner by my side apparently I was hit by a car travelling on the wrong side of the road my partner was seconds behind and seen me in the middle of the road lying unconscious ever since then my partner has been reliving the shocking experience over again every night.
If it hadn't been for the luck of two motorcyclists one knowing first aid the paramedics, police, air ambulance, trauma team and everyone involved my partner and I will be eternally grateful but take one link out of the chain of Samritans I would not be living today.
The offshore career which I've had for the last 13 years was abruptly stopped and will never continue due to the loss of my right arm which was explained to me by the surgeon he also said forget the person you used to be you will never be like that again. It was only a few years before in cases like mine the arm would have been amputated.
My whole world has been turned upside down I used to repair all kinds of machinery in the oil industry looking after multi million pounds worth of engines and equipment now I cannot even fasten my own laces. I am also having to write with my left hand the simple task of putting my watch on and off cannot be done without help am at a loss at the prospect of my future employment.
I used to be physically fit running eight kilometres in between weight training every other day the paramedic at the scene commented that if it had not been for my muscle mass and fitness it may have been a different outcome my muscle took the impact from my internal organs which helped to save my life.
Two decades of lifting weights and physical fitness which missing a day made me feel guilty now I struggle to walk even small distances without having to put my arm around my partner for support, now my partner has the burdon of trying to be my right arm as well as looking after two children.
Since leaving the hospital after the initial accident I have had nerve transfer operations one involving a nine and a half hour operation in theatre leaving me with skin grafts and scars from the neck downwards and will be having more in the future. I have been fortunate in one way that double vision which occured during the impact to my head has nearly returned to normal this gave me a break from more surgery which the eye specialist had planned.
The second operation with the renowned Professor Kay of St James hospital in Leeds who has given me the chance to move my hand and arm if everything goes to plan if not more operations will have to be undertaken.
My every day life has changed dramatically I wake up in the morning still thinking I have the use of my right hand and arm until I try to move, then the realisation of what happened has to be accepted all over again. Washing myself is not a task I can do alone a bath has to be planned in advance.
Due to the sever impact to my head my memory has been affected both long and short terms for example not recognising the police officer heading the case after meeting him previously, my partner stepped in to save my embarrassment reminding me, this happens a lot with friends hospital staff who know me but I can't seem to place them. I also repeat myself a lot ask the same questions over a space of time its not until this is pointed out to me that I become aware of this. I think it is fair to say this is a tiny example of how this accident has impacted on my life it is not the life I had prior and to be honest my life was pretty good. This is an ongoing battle which some days I seem to be losing others I get through this is not what I thought I would be like at the age of 42, the worst and hardest thing of all is I was going about my own business and someone else's action has devastated my whole future.
Every day is becoming mentally harder and harder as the realisation of what happened slowly sinks in and the thought of the rest of my life trying to cope with the dragging around a useless lump of flesh and bone that just hangs off my body
Originally Posted by The Injured Motorcyclist
After the accident I now suffer with continuous pain with the nerves from my paralysed right hand and arm which used to be my dominant side
I have been prescribed four different types of pills to be taken four times a day without fail to try and ease the pain these help to a certain extent until temperature changes moving from one room to another going outside is the most excrutiating pain imaginable I can only describe it as holding my hand and arm in boiling cooking oil. This pain is as constant as breathing in and out it wears me down to the point where I have to ease the pain by taking morphine unwillingly but necessary.
I am now unable to do the most mundane jobs from washing myself even tying shoe laces is impossible driving to the shops is a thing of the past.
The last four years my partner and I have owned a caravan in the Lake District our escape from the hustle and bustle of everyday life we travelled on motorcycles which has been a lifetime involvement this route we have travelled for years and treat this particular route with respect. The day our life's changed we were on our way to the lakes.
I woke up in intensive care with my partner by my side apparently I was hit by a car travelling on the wrong side of the road my partner was seconds behind and seen me in the middle of the road lying unconscious ever since then my partner has been reliving the shocking experience over again every night.
If it hadn't been for the luck of two motorcyclists one knowing first aid the paramedics, police, air ambulance, trauma team and everyone involved my partner and I will be eternally grateful but take one link out of the chain of Samritans I would not be living today.
The offshore career which I've had for the last 13 years was abruptly stopped and will never continue due to the loss of my right arm which was explained to me by the surgeon he also said forget the person you used to be you will never be like that again. It was only a few years before in cases like mine the arm would have been amputated.
My whole world has been turned upside down I used to repair all kinds of machinery in the oil industry looking after multi million pounds worth of engines and equipment now I cannot even fasten my own laces. I am also having to write with my left hand the simple task of putting my watch on and off cannot be done without help am at a loss at the prospect of my future employment.
I used to be physically fit running eight kilometres in between weight training every other day the paramedic at the scene commented that if it had not been for my muscle mass and fitness it may have been a different outcome my muscle took the impact from my internal organs which helped to save my life.
Two decades of lifting weights and physical fitness which missing a day made me feel guilty now I struggle to walk even small distances without having to put my arm around my partner for support, now my partner has the burdon of trying to be my right arm as well as looking after two children.
Since leaving the hospital after the initial accident I have had nerve transfer operations one involving a nine and a half hour operation in theatre leaving me with skin grafts and scars from the neck downwards and will be having more in the future. I have been fortunate in one way that double vision which occured during the impact to my head has nearly returned to normal this gave me a break from more surgery which the eye specialist had planned.
The second operation with the renowned Professor Kay of St James hospital in Leeds who has given me the chance to move my hand and arm if everything goes to plan if not more operations will have to be undertaken.
My every day life has changed dramatically I wake up in the morning still thinking I have the use of my right hand and arm until I try to move, then the realisation of what happened has to be accepted all over again. Washing myself is not a task I can do alone a bath has to be planned in advance.
Due to the sever impact to my head my memory has been affected both long and short terms for example not recognising the police officer heading the case after meeting him previously, my partner stepped in to save my embarrassment reminding me, this happens a lot with friends hospital staff who know me but I can't seem to place them. I also repeat myself a lot ask the same questions over a space of time its not until this is pointed out to me that I become aware of this. I think it is fair to say this is a tiny example of how this accident has impacted on my life it is not the life I had prior and to be honest my life was pretty good. This is an ongoing battle which some days I seem to be losing others I get through this is not what I thought I would be like at the age of 42, the worst and hardest thing of all is I was going about my own business and someone else's action has devastated my whole future.
Every day is becoming mentally harder and harder as the realisation of what happened slowly sinks in and the thought of the rest of my life trying to cope with the dragging around a useless lump of flesh and bone that just hangs off my body
alorotom said:
Interesting take on it, would you prefer that he did??
I understand your OTT sentiment (but strongly disagree) he did the time as sentenced, and at some point needs to be able to move on in someway/shape/form - I'm not suggesting for a moment that this absolves him from what he has done but at some point you have to start living life - and on the exit from prison is the most opportune moment to do that
(or has school just finished early this year and I'm due a Whoosh?)
I agree Alorotom and I don't doubt the genuineness of 10P's blog. Similarly I don't doubt his remorse or the impact the accident has had on both his and the motorcyclist's lives. I'm just pointing out that at least he only has mental scars to get over unlike the motorcyclist who has both physical (from which he will likely never fully recover) and mental. It seems a bit callous that he can look forward to going for a pint on his release... like, I've done my time, paid the price, and normal(ish) life resumes. Whilst I appreciate the fact that his writings will have made others think twice about their standard of driving when they go out for a 'spirited' run, I can't help feel there's almost something selfish and self-indulgent about it.I understand your OTT sentiment (but strongly disagree) he did the time as sentenced, and at some point needs to be able to move on in someway/shape/form - I'm not suggesting for a moment that this absolves him from what he has done but at some point you have to start living life - and on the exit from prison is the most opportune moment to do that
(or has school just finished early this year and I'm due a Whoosh?)
As an aside, it was with interest that I read about the exaggerated witness accounts in this case. A number of years ago a good friend of mine was involved in an accident where he knocked down a pedestrian who was drunk/high and who ran out in front of his car. The car suffered a damaged grill, bonnet and lightly smashed windscreen and was taken by the police whilst they investigated the accident. The pedestrian was badly bruised but otherwise uninjured and the car was returned by the police, however when it was returned the lightly smashed windscreen had been smashed further to the point where it was caved in and was nearly touching the steering wheel. This was not a result of the accident and it was suspected that whilst in the care of the police, someone within the force had further smashed/pushed the windscreen in to make the accident look worse than it was in order to add weight to the prosecution's case should my friend have been charged.
I wouldn't trust the police or the CPS to conduct themselves fairly and impartially if I were ever involved in an accident, and think it's inevitable that I would have to adopt an aggressive defense in response to any allegations regardless of reality. Three friends who have been in the police (1 retired, 2 left) are of a similar opinion - that many of their former colleagues were 'convenient with the truth' in order to get prosecutions. I would prefer to call that corrupt / bent.
Anyways, 10P's accident occurred, you can't turn back time, and I hope that the parties involved make as best a recovery as they can and can move on.
Melman Giraffe said:
What Happen to 10p? Hasn't posted for a long time
I believe has has left this place - I think he had some difficulties with this incident which manifested themselves some years later and he wasn't in a very good place at all.Neither 10p nor the biker came out of this well. Tragic all round, and this thread should be compulsory reading as part of the theory test.
Soov330e said:
Melman Giraffe said:
What Happen to 10p? Hasn't posted for a long time
I believe has has left this place - I think he had some difficulties with this incident which manifested themselves some years later and he wasn't in a very good place at all.Neither 10p nor the biker came out of this well. Tragic all round, and this thread should be compulsory reading as part of the theory test.
Soov330e said:
Melman Giraffe said:
What Happen to 10p? Hasn't posted for a long time
I believe has has left this place - I think he had some difficulties with this incident which manifested themselves some years later and he wasn't in a very good place at all.Neither 10p nor the biker came out of this well. Tragic all round, and this thread should be compulsory reading as part of the theory test.
So I've read this thread a few times over the years, and after all the genuine sympathy for all affected by a small mistake with tragic consequences for everyone, one thought always comes to mind.
While 10PS was undoubtedly to blame for the incident, and he's never denied it, how much of the culpability for the victims injuries lies with the fact he decided to ride a motorcycle?
With 10PS straddled across the road, stationary (or close to stationary), had the victim been driving a car I suspect he would have walked away with little or no injuries, as his would have been a frontal impact with crumple zones and airbags taking the brunt. 10PS would likely have been the one more seriously injured.
To be perfectly blunt, the victims statement reads a little like listening to American (mainly) parents whose kids have shot themselves with their parent's gun. Tragic, yet you're sat there thinking that having a firearm in the house with kids is not the smartest move in the world. Is motorcycling really any different?
Statistically if you do any mileage, even if you're the greatest most careful driver/rider, you're going to be involved in an accident. Can you really be surprised that you may sustain serious injury?
While this may sound callous, it's not exactly a secret that motorcyclists will come off worse in more or less any traffic accident. So surely motorcyclists accept that risk and should shoulder some responsibility for their injuries even if they are not to blame?
I totally get the appeal and exhilaration of the bike, but I've never had one because I know I would push to hard and end up badly injured or dead.
While 10PS was undoubtedly to blame for the incident, and he's never denied it, how much of the culpability for the victims injuries lies with the fact he decided to ride a motorcycle?
With 10PS straddled across the road, stationary (or close to stationary), had the victim been driving a car I suspect he would have walked away with little or no injuries, as his would have been a frontal impact with crumple zones and airbags taking the brunt. 10PS would likely have been the one more seriously injured.
To be perfectly blunt, the victims statement reads a little like listening to American (mainly) parents whose kids have shot themselves with their parent's gun. Tragic, yet you're sat there thinking that having a firearm in the house with kids is not the smartest move in the world. Is motorcycling really any different?
Statistically if you do any mileage, even if you're the greatest most careful driver/rider, you're going to be involved in an accident. Can you really be surprised that you may sustain serious injury?
While this may sound callous, it's not exactly a secret that motorcyclists will come off worse in more or less any traffic accident. So surely motorcyclists accept that risk and should shoulder some responsibility for their injuries even if they are not to blame?
I totally get the appeal and exhilaration of the bike, but I've never had one because I know I would push to hard and end up badly injured or dead.
zippy3x said:
While 10PS was undoubtedly to blame for the incident, and he's never denied it, how much of the culpability for the victims injuries lies with the fact he decided to ride a motorcycle?
Zero. A motorcycle is a legitimate method of transport. You could just as well (possibly more plausibly) argue that 10PS should have riding a motorcycle in order to reduce the damage caused to others.Suppose 10PS had mounted the verge and hit a pedestrian? Would you hold the pedestrian at fault for not travelling in an army surplus tank?
Dr Jekyll said:
Suppose 10PS had mounted the verge and hit a pedestrian? Would you hold the pedestrian at fault for not travelling in an army surplus tank?
No I wouldn't hold the pedestrian to blame, but the average pedestrian does not choose to propel him/herself around at 40mph (or whatever) protected only by a plastic helmet and a few millimetres of cow skin.Just to play devil's advocate and to quote word for word the highway code:
"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
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