Discussion
matchmaker said:
I met a middle-aged guy who was doing 2 years for causing death by dangerous driving. He'd hit a pedestrian who walked out in front of him. So far, bad enough. Pedestrian seriously injured, died in hospital. BUT - the drivers fault? We don't know as he made the mistake of driving off. Had he remained at the scene, dialed 999 and tended the injured victim, the outcome might have been different for both.
But as he drove off (in a panic - there was no suggestion of drink) things changed completely.
Another chap (in a different prison) was doing 18 months for another S1. Excessive speed on a single track country road, rolled into a ditch, killed his passenger. No alcohol, just very bad driving.
He was distraught.
It was his 6 year old son he killed.
I've bee reading chunks of this thread over several days and a few times it's stopped me in my tracks and made me think about how I drive. I've got a six year old son and this has hit me like a train. I feel sick and I'm in tears here. I'll be driving even more carefully with him in the car now.But as he drove off (in a panic - there was no suggestion of drink) things changed completely.
Another chap (in a different prison) was doing 18 months for another S1. Excessive speed on a single track country road, rolled into a ditch, killed his passenger. No alcohol, just very bad driving.
He was distraught.
It was his 6 year old son he killed.
Andy_mr2sc said:
Just to play devil's advocate and to quote word for word the highway code:
"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
I too have been thinking this."Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
Andy_mr2sc said:
Just to play devil's advocate and to quote word for word the highway code:
"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
I haven't read the whole thread, but this was the first thing that crossed my mind. I'm currently teaching my son to drive and that's the main rule I keep pestering him about. If you can't see far enough around the corner back off so that you can still stop if there is anything unexpected. "Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
Andy_mr2sc said:
Just to play devil's advocate and to quote word for word the highway code:
"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
I think I've made this point before on another thread but anyway:"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
In theory he should have been able to stop. But for one thing the car was reported as still moving at the time of the impact, albeit quite slowly. For another judging how much room it takes to stop on a bend is tricky, especially on two wheels.
Also the bike hit the car drivers side on. I know from a near miss on a motorway that if you see a vehicle side on in front of you there is a tendency to think you will pass behind it. In my case I actually remembered the out of control vehicle as passing right to left in front of me and then spinning back into my path. Examination of the skid marks showed it had been in the lane in front of me all the time.
So the biker had to recognise that the oncoming vehicle was in his lane, and was going to stay there, then overcome any bikers mental block about braking hard on a bend. So I don't really blame him for not allowing for all this when deciding his speed into the bend.
Andy_mr2sc said:
Just to play devil's advocate and to quote word for word the highway code:
"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
This is a point that was raised a few times earlier in the thread. The general consensus was that yes, it's important to leave oneself room to stop but that out of control cars travelling towards you on your side of the road are very hard to plan for"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
amancalledrob said:
Andy_mr2sc said:
Just to play devil's advocate and to quote word for word the highway code:
"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
This is a point that was raised a few times earlier in the thread. The general consensus was that yes, it's important to leave oneself room to stop but that out of control cars travelling towards you on your side of the road are very hard to plan for"Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear"
The obstruction in the road, in this case the crashed car could easily have been a lorry that had lost its load or a slow moving/stationary vehicle. While I have great sympathy for every party involved if the motorcycle had been adhering to the rules of the Highway Code he would not have hit the crashed vehicle.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...
10 Pence Short said:
His bike had been thrown some 14 metres back the way it came.
Doesn't sound like the car had stopped to me.zippy3x said:
While this may sound callous, it's not exactly a secret that motorcyclists will come off worse in more or less any traffic accident. So surely motorcyclists accept that risk and should shoulder some responsibility for their injuries even if they are not to blame?
I totally get the appeal and exhilaration of the bike, but I've never had one because I know I would push to hard and end up badly injured or dead.
How hard do you push in the car? You don't need to die on the bike in the same way you don't crash the car on every outing to the shops.I totally get the appeal and exhilaration of the bike, but I've never had one because I know I would push to hard and end up badly injured or dead.
I've taken several mates out for training after they've passed their tests, it's something I always make clear 'You may be in the right, but that doesn't matter if you're the one in hospital'.
If you start apportioning blame due to the mode of transport employed by someone being hit by an out of control car where do you stop?
What if it had been a cyclist? Would they have been more to blame than a motorcyclist as they're protected only by lycra and luck instead of armoured leather.
I've had motorbikes for the last 17 years, I know the risks. Some of my mates have been killed or injured in ways that have completely changed their lives.
I've considered selling the bikes on occasion, usually after another friend has had something awful happen or I've had a near miss.
But people die in cars, people die from stupid infections in hospitals. I knew a man who collapsed and bled out two days after having his tonsils removed in a routine operation.
I fly to work in helicopters and spend half my life on oil rigs that are 20-30 years past design life, I've been involved in incidents offshore that if one single thing had been different would have doomed us all. Yet I'm offshore now.
If you go through life trying to avoid all risk you might as well be dead now. For me the rewards allow the risk to be acceptable.
Edited by Speed addicted on Tuesday 11th July 14:04
Edited by Speed addicted on Tuesday 11th July 14:06
Not meaning to thread hijack, but i had a 'similar' incident last night, all be it reversed.
I came around a corner (almost blind) doing the speed limit,as i emerged the corner, saw a biker pull out to over-take a car coming towards me, he sees me, grabs the front brake (whilst over the double whites), loses the front end, (low-side) i put my brakes on & come to a halt, he carries on sliding down the road attached to his bike & into the front of the car.
He was very, very lucky, even more so, considering he had no gloves on, just a pair of slip on trainers, normal jeans and a short sleeve shirt, he barely had a cut on him.
My girlfriend in the passenger seat screamed & was very shakey afterwards, i was (surprisingly calm) & just went through the motions of taking photo's, details, etc etc.
The chap admitted liability, i also had the witness from the car he tried to overtake saying i didn't do anything wrong, if i'm honest & it may sound harsh i wasn't really phases (admittedly because he wasn't injured), however a few hours later on reflection it did make me a bit angry thinking back on it & how much worse it could have been!
I came around a corner (almost blind) doing the speed limit,as i emerged the corner, saw a biker pull out to over-take a car coming towards me, he sees me, grabs the front brake (whilst over the double whites), loses the front end, (low-side) i put my brakes on & come to a halt, he carries on sliding down the road attached to his bike & into the front of the car.
He was very, very lucky, even more so, considering he had no gloves on, just a pair of slip on trainers, normal jeans and a short sleeve shirt, he barely had a cut on him.
My girlfriend in the passenger seat screamed & was very shakey afterwards, i was (surprisingly calm) & just went through the motions of taking photo's, details, etc etc.
The chap admitted liability, i also had the witness from the car he tried to overtake saying i didn't do anything wrong, if i'm honest & it may sound harsh i wasn't really phases (admittedly because he wasn't injured), however a few hours later on reflection it did make me a bit angry thinking back on it & how much worse it could have been!
Wow. This is the only time I've sat and read through a 37 page thread in one go. A few hours of a rare day off gone but so worth while.
This must be one of the most sobering reads ever seen on PH. A story which everyone who drives or is learning to drive should read.
Hat's off to Ten Pence Short for writing about what happened with such honesty. He comes across as a decent bloke.
Obviously, thoughts for Biker Brian, I wish him well.
If you're still around here Ten Pence, very best wishes mate and I hope you are doing ok.
Just to reiterate the other views - travel at appropriate speed. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it slow. Driving home from a great day at Goodwood FoS the other day, come round a corner after leaving South Harting https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.9718733,-0.89355... as I round this corner I'm confronted by a McLaren on my side of the road overtaking a stream of traffic. Dodgy overtake as single white line on their side, but I slammed the anchors on, and he just managed to get in front of the queue of traffic before the corner and me. Crazy place for an overtake as further along he had much more space. So, fortunately it was all fine, I was probably only doing 55 or so but slamming the brakes on averted a head on crash at a closing speed of probably at least 100, as I suspect he was doing more than 50! Didn't get the plate or much else as was in self preservation mode!
Morons are everywhere, drive defensively and expect the unexpected!
Morons are everywhere, drive defensively and expect the unexpected!
Soov330e said:
I believe has has left this place - I think he had some difficulties with this incident which manifested themselves some years later and he wasn't in a very good place at all.
Neither 10p nor the biker came out of this well. Tragic all round, and this thread should be compulsory reading as part of the theory test.
I hope you just mean he left PH.Neither 10p nor the biker came out of this well. Tragic all round, and this thread should be compulsory reading as part of the theory test.
Well I have been reading this thread on and off throughout the day between working. I certainly drove home slower tonight. I had read his blog before (picked up from a link on babybmw I think) but not this post.
Real shame he has left pistonheads. 10p, if you ever check back in then thanks for posting your story up. Certainly slowed me down.
Real shame he has left pistonheads. 10p, if you ever check back in then thanks for posting your story up. Certainly slowed me down.
zippy3x said:
While 10PS was undoubtedly to blame for the incident, and he's never denied it, how much of the culpability for the victims injuries lies with the fact he decided to ride a motorcycle?
And if a lorry crushed your thick skull, how much of the culpability for your injuries lies with the fact you decided to drive a car.You f
king idiot.some folks would have you blamed if you got out of bed that day....
just being there would be enough to apportion blame.
I do hope the OP revisits this and reads whats put, you did wrong, like we all do wrong, no malice intended. I learned a lot from you and you probably had a far reaching effect on many that read what you wrote.
I hope that you managed to work through your demons and put them in their place. You have your life to lead. lead it and move on. you did your punishment. did you time.
just being there would be enough to apportion blame.
I do hope the OP revisits this and reads whats put, you did wrong, like we all do wrong, no malice intended. I learned a lot from you and you probably had a far reaching effect on many that read what you wrote.
I hope that you managed to work through your demons and put them in their place. You have your life to lead. lead it and move on. you did your punishment. did you time.
zippy3x said:
While 10PS was undoubtedly to blame for the incident, and he's never denied it, how much of the culpability for the victims injuries lies with the fact he decided to ride a motorcycle?
None. You may be confused with contributory negligence and compensation.e.g. a cyclist injured while cycling at night wearing black clothes, no lights and on an unlit road.
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