Is it legal to shoot a fox on your own land?

[julian64]

Davi said:

DIW35 said:

Davi said:

Is 150m short range or long range? I know jack st about guns, just regularly watched a good friend who's a fiend with guns take them out at that distance - clean headshot every time with a 12lb air rifle.

I call bullst on that one. A 12ft/lb air rifle will not retain sufficient energy at 150m to kill a rabbit. Even to hit the damn thing at that range would take exceptional skill. I have used a .17hmr at that sort of range which leaves the barrel at 2,500 fps and 250ft/lb, so has a much flatter trajectory than an airgun pellet. However, I wouldn't guarantee a headshot at that distance, so will always go for the heart/lung area. I wouldn't even think of using an airgun which only starts off at 500 or 800fps (depending on calibre).

Edited by DIW35 on Tuesday 16th June 18:27

Frankly couldn't give a monkey's arse on who calls what on it, I'm not looking for acceptance from peers, merely questioning his claim that it's a 12ft/lb rifle after reading the rest of the thread. I think I'm right on the distance - a square of land ~ 3 acres, so by my (poor) maths that is approx 110m x 110m so the diagonal across it is ~150m, give or take a bit!If that's right the only thing I'm interested in is the power of the air rifle, which from the various posts above he may be "playing down" the power of, a tad

Yep spot on. When I was asking these questions of daystate and talking about accuracy at about 100m, they were telling me the gun would have to be increased to 40ftlb which, of course would put it in FAC territory.

[markcjd]

As I have said before, just because something can be done does not mean it should.

If you have killed a fox with an air rifle then I cannot dispute your claim. It is however irresponsible and playing into the hands of the antis when foxes start being injured rather than killed.

The acid test would be to apply for a FAC and list a 40 lb/ft air rifle with use for fox. I'll wager it is declined swiftly as plod will not consider the calibre suitable.

The margin for error, assuming your claims to be correct, are too small with an air weapon. A deflection as a result of the wind or an unseen twig or plant will knock the shot off and increase the already too high risk of injuring your prey.

For a lot less cash than the mid to high end PCP air rifles you can buy a .17 hmr that will gaurantee a clean kill with correct placement or for the same cash get a .223.

For clarity, don't shoot foxes with air weapons. Ever.

[NobleLord]

markcjd said:

As I have said before, just because something can be done does not mean it should.

If you have killed a fox with an air rifle then I cannot dispute your claim. It is however irresponsible and playing into the hands of the antis when foxes start being injured rather than killed.

The acid test would be to apply for a FAC and list a 40 lb/ft air rifle with use for fox. I'll wager it is declined swiftly as plod will not consider the calibre suitable.

The margin for error, assuming your claims to be correct, are too small with an air weapon. A deflection as a result of the wind or an unseen twig or plant will knock the shot off and increase the already too high risk of injuring your prey.

For a lot less cash than the mid to high end PCP air rifles you can buy a .17 hmr that will gaurantee a clean kill with correct placement or for the same cash get a .223.

For clarity, don't shoot foxes with air weapons. Ever.

As the OP, it's useful to hear input from others with more experience in these matters. So, the You Tube video posted on page 2 lists one of these clicky as the weapon that seems to have done a pretty good job on the fox. I have a shotgun licence, but do I need a different licence for one of these?

Coming back to markcjd's post above, do I need a licence for a .17 hmr and, if so, how do I go about getting one? I suspect it may be easier for me as I live in the sticks and own a small farm with a fox problem.

NL

[okgo]

Heavy shot cartridge + 12 bore shotgun + fox trapped in magpie trap = a mess.

Edited by okgo on Wednesday 17th June 14:44

[VetteG]

Your shotgun is a perfectly acceptable tool for dispatching foxes, just use No 5 or lower cartridges. Do not use an airgun, your shotgun is more efficient, period!

G

[Marcellus]

can I just clarify; your next door neighbour was a firearms officer and you don't get on too well with him?

If so, so what?

OK so he knows the law... iirc shooting a shot gun within 50m of a public highway is a nono but I don't think that applies to property boundaries (assuming no public highway is the other end of the fence)

YOu are legally allowed to shoot the f****er on your land or any land you have permission to shoot on.

So, why not pop round and explain you've got a problem with foxes attacking your birds and that you are going to try and shoot it on ??????.

Most FOs I've met shoot themselves and you never know he might want to help!!

[Ayahuasca]

List of airgun incidents here:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:GoSBc8VZ9boJ:w...

Some hefty prison terms for messing about with them, a lot of maimed animals and (surprisingly) a couple of cows and horses shot dead by them.

[NobleLord]

Marcellus said:

can I just clarify; your next door neighbour was a firearms officer and you don't get on too well with him?

If so, so what?

OK so he knows the law... iirc shooting a shot gun within 50m of a public highway is a nono but I don't think that applies to property boundaries (assuming no public highway is the other end of the fence)

YOu are legally allowed to shoot the f****er on your land or any land you have permission to shoot on.

So, why not pop round and explain you've got a problem with foxes attacking your birds and that you are going to try and shoot it on ??????.

Most FOs I've met shoot themselves and you never know he might want to help!!

Ah, I forgot to explain that we've had a monumental falling out with him on account of him complaining about everything from mud on the road to a noisy wind chime. Last week he sent us a letter saying that he would prosecute us if our horses leant over the fence and ate the back of his hedge again. Anyway, don't get me started on this one.... last time I exchanged any words with him was about 1 year ago when I told him to fk off after he complained about a helicopter landing in my field and scaring his chickens!!!

So, I can't involve him, but am sure that he'll involve himself if he feels that I'm breaking the law in any way, shape or form.

I'd be shooting from a position less than 50m from a public road, but facing the other way. I'll try and knock together an image to show the lie of the land.

NL

[Marcellus]

Ah ok, I see...... so why not ring your current FO and tell him what you're going to be doing "just in case anyone were to try wasting his time"

[markcjd]

NobleLord said:

As the OP, it's useful to hear input from others with more experience in these matters. So, the You Tube video posted on page 2 lists one of these clicky as the weapon that seems to have done a pretty good job on the fox. I have a shotgun licence, but do I need a different licence for one of these?

Coming back to markcjd's post above, do I need a licence for a .17 hmr and, if so, how do I go about getting one? I suspect it may be easier for me as I live in the sticks and own a small farm with a fox problem.

NL

As before, No airguns for foxes. Not S410, or theobens, or any others.

.17HMR is a rimfire rifle and covered by a section 1 firearms licence. You will need to submit an application to your local fireams licensing team, generally located at police HQ for your area.

Most forces host the necessary forms on their website. IIRC the form is 4 pages long plus reference forms and, if necessary, land permission forms.

Once submitted the local plod will conduct criminal, medical and reference checks to ensure you are fit to possess a firearm. If you have a shotgun already you will be familiar with the basic process but section 1 is more in depth.

The major diferences are;

Each firearm must be applied for and a reason for possesion given as opposed to a shotgun permit that entitles their possesion in any number and for any purpose.

Ammunition is limited in quantity and type, shotgun has no limitation.

Ammunition must be stored under lock and key, separate from the firearm.

Unloaded bullets (heads) can be counted as assembled rounds if of the expanding type.

If land permission to shoot is given as a reason (vermin/fox/deer) the plod will look at the suitability of the land for backstops and boundaries.

and so on.....

If you intend to shoot centrefire rifles then safety becomes an ever greater concern than normal. The power of a .243 round is frightening. Compare a velocity at the muzzle for a .22 air rifle of around 800fps that delivers 11-12 ft/lb to the .243 (80gr) which leaves the barrel at around 3000fps and delivers approx 1900 ft/lb.

This equates to a round that will shoot through a steel gate post at 600 yds! Make sure you know where it is going to end up....

[julian64]

markcjd said:

As I have said before, just because something can be done does not mean it should.

If you have killed a fox with an air rifle then I cannot dispute your claim. It is however irresponsible and playing into the hands of the antis when foxes start being injured rather than killed.

The acid test would be to apply for a FAC and list a 40 lb/ft air rifle with use for fox. I'll wager it is declined swiftly as plod will not consider the calibre suitable.

The margin for error, assuming your claims to be correct, are too small with an air weapon. A deflection as a result of the wind or an unseen twig or plant will knock the shot off and increase the already too high risk of injuring your prey.

For a lot less cash than the mid to high end PCP air rifles you can buy a .17 hmr that will gaurantee a clean kill with correct placement or for the same cash get a .223.

For clarity, don't shoot foxes with air weapons. Ever.

You make no sense.

If the airgun had been an inadequate weapon I'd have stopped using it after the first poor fox to get maimed and run off. It patently is an effective tool if used properly. I'm not going to continue to maim because it is inhumane.

The airifle takes less than a quarter of a second to reach its target. It would have to be a high wind to deflect it significantly over that timespan, but I don't shoot in high wind anyway as the foxes strangely don't go out in high wind or rain, and I certainly don't

I don't shoot unless I have clear aim, which means I don't shoot through anything, twigs or otherwise.

I honestly don't see how you could use either of those two arguments as sensible differences between airrifle or rimfire because I wouldn't shoot either gun in those conditions.

I used to shoot 22 rimfire at a club a long time ago, 25m competition. About a year ago I talked to the local firearms area chap who after hearing my story of rabbit and fox woe was encouraging me to go .22 rimfire for a small fraction of the £1300 I subsequently spent on an airrifle. His opinion seemed to be the one that counted with the police as the police gave me his number.
I very much doubt I'd have had any trouble getting a firearms certificate as I already had grounds/reason/and necessary storge facillities, and he was recommending what I applied for.

The decision in the end came down to the sheer hassle of owning, not applying for FAC in this country. I looked around for an alternative before taking the FAC plunge and had the chance to test an up to date computerised 12ftlb air rifle. I was sold from that point.

To be honest if I were to apply for an FAC in the future it would be to uprate the Daystate not buy a rimfire because its a far superior weapon.

After one shot with a rimfire, even with the best silencer the field would clear of everything.

As long as I stay still for 30 secs after each shot I can almost shoot forever and the bunnies don't move, the gun is that quiet, barely much more than a click.

[markcjd]

julian64 said:

You make no sense.

The airifle takes less than a quarter of a second to reach its target. It would have to be a high wind to deflect it significantly over that timespan, but I don't shoot in high wind anyway as the foxes strangely don't go out in high wind or rain, and I certainly don't

.22 LR (3xweight of a pellet) is deviated 5" at 100 yds by a 10mph wind.

julian64 said:

I don't shoot unless I have clear aim, which means I don't shoot through anything, twigs or otherwise.

With a scope zoomed in it is very easy not to see small twigs or blades of grass.

julian64 said:

I used to shoot 22 rimfire at a club a long time ago, 25m competition. About a year ago I talked to the local firearms area chap who after hearing my story of rabbit and fox woe was encouraging me to go .22 rimfire for a small fraction of the £1300 I subsequently spent on an airrifle. His opinion seemed to be the one that counted with the police as the police gave me his number.
I very much doubt I'd have had any trouble getting a firearms certificate as I already had grounds/reason/and necessary storge facillities, and he was recommending what I applied for.

Police will not grant permission to shoot foxes with .22lr, much less air rifle.

julian64 said:

The decision in the end came down to the sheer hassle of owning, not applying for FAC in this country. I looked around for an alternative before taking the FAC plunge and had the chance to test an up to date computerised 12ftlb air rifle. I was sold from that point.

Modern PCP's are great rifles, I have owned several and still use one for barn work. That doesn't make them suitable for foxes.

julian64 said:

After one shot with a rimfire, even with the best silencer the field would clear of everything.

As long as I stay still for 30 secs after each shot I can almost shoot forever and the bunnies don't move, the gun is that quiet, barely much more than a click.

Nonsense. Subsonic ammo in a silenced .22lr makes little more noise than an air rifle. Spring air rifles make more noise!

The long and short of it is that I do not believe an air rifle is a suitable weapon for hunting foxes and you do. Having never tried it I have no direct experience of the outcome.

I do however have a good knowledge of firearms and wildlife and cannot ever imagine an air rifle being up to the job.