Should lifeboatmen be paid?
Discussion
dudleybloke said:
god bless the lifeboat crews.
i think they do a superb job and deserve rewarding.
if you asked most lifeboat people they would probably want the money put into better equipment.
That's absolutely right, no-one ever did it for the money. i think they do a superb job and deserve rewarding.
if you asked most lifeboat people they would probably want the money put into better equipment.
My dad was a lifeboat crewman as was my grandad, and my great gradandad was skipper for 17 years.
They are my true heroes. Providing the crews with the very best boats and equipment that money can buy is by far and away thebest way of supporting these fantastic guys.
cornishgirl said:
dudleybloke said:
god bless the lifeboat crews.
i think they do a superb job and deserve rewarding.
if you asked most lifeboat people they would probably want the money put into better equipment.
That's absolutely right, no-one ever did it for the money. i think they do a superb job and deserve rewarding.
if you asked most lifeboat people they would probably want the money put into better equipment.
My dad was a lifeboat crewman as was my grandad, and my great gradandad was skipper for 17 years.
They are my true heroes. Providing the crews with the very best boats and equipment that money can buy is by far and away thebest way of supporting these fantastic guys.
are women able to work on the boats?
</dumbahsmofomode>
BoRED S2upid said:
parakitaMol. said:
BoRED S2upid said:
Itrs the whole set up charity driven? Volunteers man the lifeboats which are funded through donations?. Or is there funding to keep the boats and stations going?.
Completely run from fundraised income of various descriptions.... Legacies, Regular Giving, One off donations, Trusts and Grants from other grant making organisations.With regards tot he volunteers themselves then providing there are always enough volunteers then yes voluntary work is very rewarding (I do a bit myself) but if there was ever a time when there wasn't enough volunteers then pay them.
Morale of the story... f
k off goverment they are happy doing it themselves and doing a fine job and dont have any of this penny pinching or spending waste...Interesting topic. Here's my perspective as a Mountain Rescue team member.
Should they (and MR and CG) get paid? The consensus with the majority of organisations is NO. Simply because there would be far too much red tape involved.
Should people be charged for call-outs? This is an argument that has raged for decades. In some countries people are charged for rescues and thus take out insurance to cover it. My personal view is not as it's another barrier to enjoying the outdoors, but to give you another perspective, because people have stayed at home this year, some of the busiest Lakeland teams are already at double the number of call-outs so far - sometimes three in a day. How many people do you know who can afford to take un-paid leave that frequently?
False call-outs Last week I was out till around 4am searching the moors, along with the police (Rescue 128/127 had been put on standby, which meant the crews were woken and waiting for the call). All because someone had let off a flare. It was a false alarm. I think it's fare to say that there is nothing more annoying than being dragged out of bed because some idiot has set of a flare for fun or decided to play with Chinese lanterns near an area where emergency flares are likely.
What you should be getting pissed about and writing to your MP. Did you know we (certainly MR teams, but I'm fairly sure CG and RNLI are the same) have to pay VAT on all our rescue equipment because the government classes it as kit that could be used for fun
On average this costs teams an extra £2,500-5k per year. To put that into context when we put on a fund raiser - moors run or treasure hunt, it takes 15-20 people to do and raises approx 200-500 pounds.
Should they (and MR and CG) get paid? The consensus with the majority of organisations is NO. Simply because there would be far too much red tape involved.
Should people be charged for call-outs? This is an argument that has raged for decades. In some countries people are charged for rescues and thus take out insurance to cover it. My personal view is not as it's another barrier to enjoying the outdoors, but to give you another perspective, because people have stayed at home this year, some of the busiest Lakeland teams are already at double the number of call-outs so far - sometimes three in a day. How many people do you know who can afford to take un-paid leave that frequently?
False call-outs Last week I was out till around 4am searching the moors, along with the police (Rescue 128/127 had been put on standby, which meant the crews were woken and waiting for the call). All because someone had let off a flare. It was a false alarm. I think it's fare to say that there is nothing more annoying than being dragged out of bed because some idiot has set of a flare for fun or decided to play with Chinese lanterns near an area where emergency flares are likely.
What you should be getting pissed about and writing to your MP. Did you know we (certainly MR teams, but I'm fairly sure CG and RNLI are the same) have to pay VAT on all our rescue equipment because the government classes it as kit that could be used for fun
On average this costs teams an extra £2,500-5k per year. To put that into context when we put on a fund raiser - moors run or treasure hunt, it takes 15-20 people to do and raises approx 200-500 pounds. Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th September 11:31
drivin_me_nuts said:
cornishgirl said:
dudleybloke said:
god bless the lifeboat crews.
i think they do a superb job and deserve rewarding.
if you asked most lifeboat people they would probably want the money put into better equipment.
That's absolutely right, no-one ever did it for the money. i think they do a superb job and deserve rewarding.
if you asked most lifeboat people they would probably want the money put into better equipment.
My dad was a lifeboat crewman as was my grandad, and my great gradandad was skipper for 17 years.
They are my true heroes. Providing the crews with the very best boats and equipment that money can buy is by far and away thebest way of supporting these fantastic guys.
are women able to work on the boats?
</dumbahsmofomode>
SamHH said:
Almost correct. Coastguard Rescue Teams, the people who drive the blue and yellow cars and 4x4s are volunteers. However, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, of which HM Coastguard is part, has many paid employees including the people who work at the 19 Maritime Rescue Coordination Centres, who crew the Coastguard helicopters and Coastguard boats (not lifeboats) and who do other jobs within the MCA.
Sorry, Should have made myself clear, it was the Coastguard Rescue Teams I was referring to rather than the full time staff we very rarely see. With the obvious exception of the Helicopter and Boat crews.rhinochopig said:
Interesting topic. Here's my perspective as a Mountain Rescue team member.
Should they (and MR and CG) get paid? The consensus with the majority of organisations is NO. Simply because there would be far too much red tape involved.
From your post it sounds like MR dont get paid for attending shouts, just like the RNLI. Nor do they get paid a retainer for being ready to go. But I know that Coastguard Rescue Teams get paid for attending shouts, even if it does turn out to a false alarm/errant flare/hoax 999.Should they (and MR and CG) get paid? The consensus with the majority of organisations is NO. Simply because there would be far too much red tape involved.
I'm stunned that you have to pay VAT on your kit though. My mate is in the local CRT and having seen most of his SAR kit, I find it unbelievable that anyone could say you could use it for having FUN!
Surely there could be some kind of Claim back system for CG/MR people who have to buy this kit to perform the duties required of them, even if it can be used for having 'fun'.
Just seen this. Absolutely 
These people go out and save lives in a harsh environment, sometimes losing theirs - for no pay. Salt of the Earth.
I've never understood why UK Gov has ignored this issue for so many years. It actually accepts the role these people carry out yet most of the funding comes only from donations.
These people go out and save lives in a harsh environment, sometimes losing theirs - for no pay. Salt of the Earth.I've never understood why UK Gov has ignored this issue for so many years. It actually accepts the role these people carry out yet most of the funding comes only from donations.
Difficult one. Of course, what they do is of immense value, but people who I spoke to on the inside suggested that the RNLI is a finely balanced machine which works really well in its current state. This was during a wider discussion about funding and whether it should be a public service like the police, ambulance and fire services. The answer was unanimously "no, we don't want the government getting involved and turning something that works really well into an inefficient, costly and bureaucratic nightmare". They were strongly in favour of it remaining a charity with whatever limitations that brought. Of course, they deserve to be paid, but the consensus internally, at all levels, was, "don't try to fix what's not broken".
Alex_225 said:
I'll be hones, I didn't know they didn't get paid so in my eyes yes, they should!
"Our lifeboat service receives no UK government funding and less than 2% of the RNLI’s total funding comes from government sources. As a charity, 94% of our total income comes from donations and so our lifesaving service relies on the generosity of our supporters""The RNLI's lifeboat crews and lifeguards have saved more than 140,000 lives since 1824."
More here: https://rnli.org/footer/faqs/lifeboat-faqs
MitchT said:
Difficult one. Of course, what they do is of immense value, but people who I spoke to on the inside suggested that the RNLI is a finely balanced machine which works really well in its current state. This was during a wider discussion about funding and whether it should be a public service like the police, ambulance and fire services. The answer was unanimously "no, we don't want the government getting involved and turning something that works really well into an inefficient, costly and bureaucratic nightmare". They were strongly in favour of it remaining a charity with whatever limitations that brought. Of course, they deserve to be paid, but the consensus internally, at all levels, was, "don't try to fix what's not broken".
It's terrible, but I have to agree with this, don't try to fix what isn't broken. Saying that, I believe the organisation should be supported more by the insurance industry, so that they don't have to worry about every penny.I used to be a commercial fisherman and a lot of my friends and colleagues were in the RNLI. For them it was an honour to serve and a great source of pride for them and their families. If it was changed into a paid job, especially government controlled, we'd lose a great deal of commitment.
ps, My brother was rescued by them after getting stranded on a small island while sea kayaking. He was very grateful and tried to give the guys involved a 'drink'. They refused to accept them but pointed him in the direction of their donations box. They in turn were grateful to him when he agreed to admit his stupidity to the local press and get their cause some well deserved publicity.
Isn't the reason that RNLI staff are not paid simply because that was the way the organisation was initially set up?
At one point fire crews came with fire insurance but were institutionalised to ensure universal cover which was needed as fire in one house can wipe out a whole city (typed with Monument behind me)
The police service regulated what had been a sporadic and often corrupt set of what amounted to local private militia
Ambulances followed the general move to the NHS and universal state funded provision
There has been no parallel situation with the RNLI so having been established as a charity, in the absence of other country wide provision, it continued in that line. As it stands it works remarkably well and I am 100% certain that government involvement would only see a deterioration in the service, trapped as it would be in the infinite maze of red tape, performance reviews, political interference and budget controls
Instead we have a world class service that never goes on strike and provides year round cover so I will maintain my membership, even though I only sail inland or in the Med, and do my bit to ensure that the RNLI always has the funds it needs.
What I would support is an enhanced state pension for RNLI volunteers graded to reflect years of service
At one point fire crews came with fire insurance but were institutionalised to ensure universal cover which was needed as fire in one house can wipe out a whole city (typed with Monument behind me)
The police service regulated what had been a sporadic and often corrupt set of what amounted to local private militia
Ambulances followed the general move to the NHS and universal state funded provision
There has been no parallel situation with the RNLI so having been established as a charity, in the absence of other country wide provision, it continued in that line. As it stands it works remarkably well and I am 100% certain that government involvement would only see a deterioration in the service, trapped as it would be in the infinite maze of red tape, performance reviews, political interference and budget controls
Instead we have a world class service that never goes on strike and provides year round cover so I will maintain my membership, even though I only sail inland or in the Med, and do my bit to ensure that the RNLI always has the funds it needs.
What I would support is an enhanced state pension for RNLI volunteers graded to reflect years of service
Should they get paid- No. They do it as they really enjoy it. As has already been said, if they paid they would get people doing it just for the money or those who may not be best qualified or willing to do what it takes.
How would they even be paid?. Per shout, flat wage? Some areas have loads going on and are really busy, others can go for long periods without ever being called out.
One of my best mates is in the RNLI down here in the South West and he loves it. Gets to do lot of cool training like jump out of helicopters and roll over simulations. Not once has he ever given the impression that he would like to be paid for it.
How would they even be paid?. Per shout, flat wage? Some areas have loads going on and are really busy, others can go for long periods without ever being called out.
One of my best mates is in the RNLI down here in the South West and he loves it. Gets to do lot of cool training like jump out of helicopters and roll over simulations. Not once has he ever given the impression that he would like to be paid for it.
crofty1984 said:
I was talking to a guy the other day about this. My opinion is no. Not that they don't deserve it, but I think in a job like that, being purely voluntary means you only get people who do it "because it's the right thing to do".
What are your opinions?
Lets all hope some bright spark doesn't adopt your way of thinking and apply it to all the emergency services !!!!!!!!!What are your opinions?
'being purely voluntary means you only get people who do it "because it's the right thing to do' are you suggesting that everyone in the Police, Fire and Ambulance services are all there for the wrong reasons ????
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