65 years on if Nazi Germany ruled earth?
Discussion
Does really depend on when Hitler "won".
If we had just stood by as the Nazis took over mainland Europe, and then negotiated a peace with them, the UK would probably be in a much stronger position than it is now. We would have retained the empire to a certain extent, and wouldn't have had to allow most of it to declare independance.
If we had lost the Battle of Britain, we would be part of the Reich.
If Hitler had managed to hold Moscow, he would have rampaged to the pacific coast in the spring, meeting up with the Japanese. The USA would probably then not have been attacked at Pearl Harbor and would never have joined the war. Britain then loses the empire to Germany but becomes a "puppet state".
If Rommel had won North Africa and control of the Suez Canal, We would eventually lose the empire and again would have to become a puppet state. Hitler would have had a way to bypass Moscow through the middle east, again getting to the Pacific and probably dumping the US out of the war.
Essentially, if Hitler had won just one of these major battles he would have been in a much stronger position. Many of the secret weapons they were developing (Nukes, supersonic jets, orbital bombers, etc) would have come to fruition earlier.
If we had just stood by as the Nazis took over mainland Europe, and then negotiated a peace with them, the UK would probably be in a much stronger position than it is now. We would have retained the empire to a certain extent, and wouldn't have had to allow most of it to declare independance.
If we had lost the Battle of Britain, we would be part of the Reich.
If Hitler had managed to hold Moscow, he would have rampaged to the pacific coast in the spring, meeting up with the Japanese. The USA would probably then not have been attacked at Pearl Harbor and would never have joined the war. Britain then loses the empire to Germany but becomes a "puppet state".
If Rommel had won North Africa and control of the Suez Canal, We would eventually lose the empire and again would have to become a puppet state. Hitler would have had a way to bypass Moscow through the middle east, again getting to the Pacific and probably dumping the US out of the war.
Essentially, if Hitler had won just one of these major battles he would have been in a much stronger position. Many of the secret weapons they were developing (Nukes, supersonic jets, orbital bombers, etc) would have come to fruition earlier.
Surely people usually breed with people from the area where they live anyway so all this birth defect idea is overplayed? People from say reading usually marry/ have kids with people they met through school or work or friends from the surrounding area so a relatively small pool of people. More an issue in small rural villages than say across all of scandanavia, germany, Austria, GB etc?
I thought our ancestor base was quite small anyway with most people who's family is from the British Isles for a long time is probably the result of inbreeding somewhere.
I thought our ancestor base was quite small anyway with most people who's family is from the British Isles for a long time is probably the result of inbreeding somewhere.
davepoth said:
Does really depend on when Hitler "won".
If we had just stood by as the Nazis took over mainland Europe, and then negotiated a peace with them, the UK would probably be in a much stronger position than it is now. We would have retained the empire to a certain extent, and wouldn't have had to allow most of it to declare independance.
Fundamentally the empire cost money to run by 1945, independence struggles had begun in India long before the second world war. In the age of TV and global communications it would have been impossible for the UK to keep control of an empire while still having a parliamentary democracy.If we had just stood by as the Nazis took over mainland Europe, and then negotiated a peace with them, the UK would probably be in a much stronger position than it is now. We would have retained the empire to a certain extent, and wouldn't have had to allow most of it to declare independance.
davepoth said:
If we had lost the Battle of Britain, we would be part of the Reich.
Britain couldn't have lost the battle of Britain, it wasn't even close to being a close run thing. The RAF were still operating standard leave patterns and the British aviation industry was out producing the German one. The RAF and the USAAF threw 10 times the resources at destroying the German industries and air force and it took them three years before they had suppressed the Luftwaffe. The Germans were in no state to invade the UK and would not be for 4-5 years assuming they didn't invade Russia. davepoth said:
If Hitler had managed to hold Moscow, he would have rampaged to the pacific coast in the spring, meeting up with the Japanese. The USA would probably then not have been attacked at Pearl Harbor and would never have joined the war. Britain then loses the empire to Germany but becomes a "puppet state".
The first initial losses for the Red Army were a one off, after the initial advance they made the Germans pay for every acre of Soviet land. Taking Moscow would help the German situation in that it would be a symbolic victory and would also take out a major transport and communications hub. It would have been amazing costly to do so and wouldn't have seriously damaged Soviet industry. The further the Germans advanced into the USSR the worse their logistical situation became, to get to the Soviet industry in the Urals they would have had to more than double the amount of land they historically managed to take. They would have had to do this with a force spread much thinner due to the logistical demands of supporting a front line twice as far away from the logistics base in Germany while having to keep more men away from the front to control a massive and widely dispersed hostile population.
The whole German plan was based around the idea the the communist regime would collapse under the German pressure. It may well have done if the Germans had been liberating the population from the hell that was life under Stalin. As it was they were planning to enslave or kill the entire populations of the countries they were invading and as a result they got the bloody and determined fight that they ultimately couldn't win.
davepoth said:
Essentially, if Hitler had won just one of these major battles he would have been in a much stronger position. Many of the secret weapons they were developing (Nukes, supersonic jets, orbital bombers, etc) would have come to fruition earlier.
Fundamentally the populations and resources of the USA and the USSR were much greater than those of Germany. Most of the secret weapons were vapourwear and the Germans were nowhere near an atomic bomb. In fact after the war the top German scientists were placed in a bugged manor house in England and then told about the atomic bombings of Japan. They first believed it was just propaganda and then started to theorise how to do it, it soon became clear to those listening that they didn't have a clue how to make an atom bomb. The Germans didn't have a fraction of the infrastructure that the US ultimately used to produce an atom bomb. Germany could not present a viable threat to the US due to its size and geography, any belligerent unlucky enough to be fighting the USA after 1945/6 will be on the receiving end of nuclear weapons. The best either the Germans could realistically hope for in any feasible future scenario is some sort of cold war with the US/Soviets which given the corrupt nature of the Nazis would have probably lasted even less of a time period than the actual cold war lasted.
davepoth said:
If we had lost the Battle of Britain, we would be part of the Reich.
Not wishing to understate the bravery of the pilots, but that Battle is given too much significance. Even if they had won it, we could have retreated to inland airfield bases and Germany would not have had air superiority for an invasion due to range limitations. Even with air superiority Germany had no hope of invading us across the channel. Many, many scenarios, including complete removal of the Navy or RAF were played out as war games in the 70s? and Germany could not have succeeded.See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion
Twincam16 said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Twincam16 said:
zakelwe said:
Pesty said:
zakelwe said:
shoggoth1 said:
I doubt there'd be much bother in the Middle East.
Germany didn't have much of a track record there did they though?Andy
The common misconception of the 'Aryan race' was one of tall athletes with blonde hair and blue eyes. Whilst that represented a kind of 'Teutonic ideal' for Hitler in terms of the Nordic races, as far as Hitler was concerned an 'Aryan race' was one that had demonstrated the ability to establish and control an empire built on military force, so that included the Italians (Romans and Mussolini), the Turks (Ottoman), the Japanese (Hirohito's empire was the most effective Nazi ally), the Spanish (not only Franco, but also, historically, conquerors such as Cortez), and oddly enough, the aryan race Hitler was relying on to become a 'natural' ally, the one that had demonstrated his 'favourite' form of imperialism and join forces to fight communism - the British.
The big question would've been what would happen to the Americas. Hitler saw the USA as the 'great Satan', due to their egalitarian aspirations of classlessness and attempts at racial integration in some states. The greatest war, as far as he was concerned, would have taken place after he had subjugated Russian communism and united the Aryan world against the USA. What he'd intended to do with central and south America is less clear - perhaps he would've seen it as the natural conquest of the Spanish and allowed Franco to rule it?
Sorry for the long post - I studied patterns of fascism and 'reverse-wave anti-democratisation' quite extensively at university. I think as a generalisation, had all of Hitler's deranged plans gone as he'd intended, Europe would've been enormous, stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific, divided between Hitler, Moseley, Franco and Mussolini, the South Pacific would've been entirely Japanese, probably right down to New Zealand, and the Middle East would've been predominately Ottoman (there's no way several wealthy and powerful nations founded on Islam would bow to a Christian). Africa would've been a carved-up mess and what happened to America would've been anybody's guess. I reckon they'd have flattened the world with nukes by the time Hitler had got his hands on it. On the upside, Hitler would've been stopped, on the downside, most of the world's population would be dead and whole swathes of Europe would've been rendered uninhabitable.
With the way things happening all the time.I don't think there is much difference now as if the nazis had won.
Although i do think germany would have moved slightly towards a white supremacy which would have everyone fighting anyone who has a slight tan for the rest of this millenium.
Although i do think germany would have moved slightly towards a white supremacy which would have everyone fighting anyone who has a slight tan for the rest of this millenium.
... I think that would probably put me in charge now 
I don't think he ever would have got to world domination. Dictatorships usually turn inwards, oppressing their own people is nearly always more important than conquering others. Even with their incredible war machine Germany didn't have the resources to hold down all of Europe long term. Hitler was 56 in 1945 and probably mad with syphilis. He wouldn't have made it to 1960, and the power vacuum he left could not have been filled by anyone as ambitious or inspirational.
Sort of like the Soviet Union with better hats.
Sort of like the Soviet Union with better hats.
Twincam16 said:
It's also worth pointing out that the Nazis banished or killed some of their greatest scientists because they were Jewish, or gay, or communists, so many of the innovations and science we associate with the second half of the twentieth century, popularised by America, would never have been discovered, or perhaps not as effectively.
I still think they would have. Been reading some fringe books at the moment regarding what the Nazis were up to in their huge scientific programs, which then went on to feed the Soviet/US programs.davepoth said:
Essentially, if Hitler had won just one of these major battles he would have been in a much stronger position. Many of the secret weapons they were developing (Nukes, supersonic jets, orbital bombers, etc) would have come to fruition earlier.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4348497.stmI think the Nazis might have been closer than the history books traditionally say, did they have it in the same mould as the US, prolly not, but they had many varied ideas for bombs. The Americans the British and the Soviets were all in the exploit and deny mission to get and keep goodies from each other.
Also, the war with the UK might not have needed a military ending.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWkentD.htm
Edited by Halb on Friday 13th August 10:20
Halb said:
Steamer said:
and I'm guessing I would have to put a little more effort into actually speaking the language when visiting The Father Land.
You mean...ze farthzerland?Edited by Halb on Friday 13th August 10:22
Kleines Wurstland?
Keine Schinkenrolle für Frühstückland?
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