University and Employment Prospects
Discussion
tybalt said:
elster said:
There are very very few office based actual engineers. There are an awful lot of office based spare parts with a title of engineer. An engineer who doesn't get his hands dirty usually doesn't know what is going on with the equipment.
So what do you call someone who carries out stress analysis? I don't get my hands dirty (although I do some hands on, but I tend to work in cleanrooms!).What about someone who carries out valve train dynamics modelling (e.g. in F1)?
I think you need to think more widely about what constitutes engineering.
tybalt said:
I've just been made redundant (mechanical engineer), and there appears to be a shortage of stress engineers/structural dynamics candidates at the moment. I had no problems getting interviews and job offers (I've got ten years experience, and CEng) from aerospace and high tech manufacturing companies.
Where were these jobs? Curious, it's alway interesting to find out who is recruiting.tybalt said:
Having said that, I've decided to quit engineering and retrain (into something better paid).
What? Have you gone over to the dark side and become an accountant?
Anyone else got any views on this?
From the University League Tables (The Guardian - I'm not sure how these are looked at) the University of Liverpool is 39th overall, whereas John Moores Liverpool is 109th. For Mechanical Engineering specifically UOL is 33rd, John Moores University is 47th.
From the University League Tables (The Guardian - I'm not sure how these are looked at) the University of Liverpool is 39th overall, whereas John Moores Liverpool is 109th. For Mechanical Engineering specifically UOL is 33rd, John Moores University is 47th.
Edited by Conor D on Saturday 27th November 23:46
Conor D said:
Anyone else got any views on this?
From the University League Tables (The Guardian - I'm not sure how these are looked at) the University of Liverpool is 39th overall, whereas John Moores Liverpool is 109th. For Mechanical Engineering specifically UOL is 33rd, John Moores University is 47th.
To be honest, I don't know a great deal about how grads are initially selected but I've never experienced any problems with getting work and I got my degree with the OU of all places. Admittedly they were pretty high up in the teaching quality stakes (above Cambridge for engineering and top 10 overall) but are hardly renowned for aerospace or any other industry that we have in this country.From the University League Tables (The Guardian - I'm not sure how these are looked at) the University of Liverpool is 39th overall, whereas John Moores Liverpool is 109th. For Mechanical Engineering specifically UOL is 33rd, John Moores University is 47th.
Edited by Conor D on Saturday 27th November 23:46
From speaking to managers that have selected 2 out 50 grads (during an assessment day) the most important thing is how you present yourself during the interview phase. There's no point having a 1st from the most respected uni in the country if you're too introverted, can't work in a team or express yourself effectively. Personality goes a long way and providing you know your basics this will see you through.
tybalt said:
cymtriks said:
Engineering is in long term decline in the UK so you may want to consider if even staying in the UK is a good idea. Since I started studying engineering the UK has lost British Steel, Rover and MG. Those are just the big names that you've heard of, countless others have gone forever or the work has gone overseas.
It will see me out (I'm over 40) but at your age you really should think about what you are doing.
I'm not sure that I agree with that. I've just been made redundant (mechanical engineer), and there appears to be a shortage of stress engineers/structural dynamics candidates at the moment. I had no problems getting interviews and job offers (I've got ten years experience, and CEng) from aerospace and high tech manufacturing companies. It will see me out (I'm over 40) but at your age you really should think about what you are doing.
Having said that, I've decided to quit engineering and retrain (into something better paid). The beauty of an engineering/physics degree is that it really gives you the widest possible range of options in terms of future career.
And on the original point, I think if you are a new grad, it will make a great deal of difference what uni you went to. There's not a lot else for a future employer to discriminate between candidates on (grades obviously).
Edited by tybalt on Wednesday 24th November 10:38
There's a glut of work for stressmen at the moment and especially for Airbus work. Stressmen are usually in demand, despite most managers wanting to reduce the amount of analysis carried out
so are usually ok in this country.Fatman2 said:
Conor D said:
Anyone else got any views on this?
From the University League Tables (The Guardian - I'm not sure how these are looked at) the University of Liverpool is 39th overall, whereas John Moores Liverpool is 109th. For Mechanical Engineering specifically UOL is 33rd, John Moores University is 47th.
To be honest, I don't know a great deal about how grads are initially selected but I've never experienced any problems with getting work and I got my degree with the OU of all places. Admittedly they were pretty high up in the teaching quality stakes (above Cambridge for engineering and top 10 overall) but are hardly renowned for aerospace or any other industry that we have in this country.From the University League Tables (The Guardian - I'm not sure how these are looked at) the University of Liverpool is 39th overall, whereas John Moores Liverpool is 109th. For Mechanical Engineering specifically UOL is 33rd, John Moores University is 47th.
Edited by Conor D on Saturday 27th November 23:46
From speaking to managers that have selected 2 out 50 grads (during an assessment day) the most important thing is how you present yourself during the interview phase. There's no point having a 1st from the most respected uni in the country if you're too introverted, can't work in a team or express yourself effectively. Personality goes a long way and providing you know your basics this will see you through.
Following is the list of Top 30 UK institutions:
1 Oxford*
2 Cambridge*
3 Imperial College*
4 St Andrews
5 University College London*
6 Warwick*
7 London School of Economics
8 Durham
9 Exeter
10 Bristol*
11 York
12 King’s College London
13 Bath*
14 Edinburgh
15 Leicester
15 Southampton*
17 Loughborough*
18 Sheffield
19 Glasgow
20 Nottingham
21 Newcastle*
22 Birmingham*
23 Lancaster
24 Manchester*
25 Aston*
26 Cardiff
27 Leeds*
28 Liverpool
28 East Anglia
30 Royal Holloway
I'd also put stars next to University of Hertfordshire & Coventry University, though they are not highly placed on the list, as they have a good reputation with engineering employers.
It is of course totally biased and probably unfair to institutions that offer engineering courses, but if you want the best people then just looking at the starred places gives plenty of scope.
Hiring Managers hire people based on what a recruiter sends them. So if they interview 5 people for 1 position they will select somebody with a personality who looks like they can fit in.
The issue is that the OP needs to get an interview.
Going somewhere not on my biased starred list for what little my opinion is worth risks not being considered no matter how good he is. It's just the way things work.
So maybe it would be a good idea to go to Liverpool Uni, but it would also be a very good idea to get an MSc from some place that I put a star next to to separate himself from all the other graduates out there.
Conor D said:
It feels as if I do nothing but post up threads about University on here, I'll try and make this my last.
I'm at John Moores University in Liverpool doing a BEng in Mechanical Engineering, and I'm toying with the idea of putting in a transfer to the University of Liverpool.
They said they would need a 65% Average to consider me for admission into second year with the University of Liverpool for the same course I'm doing.
]
Conor I currently work for Rolls-Royce and I am part of the university liaison team for my old university (Warwick).I'm at John Moores University in Liverpool doing a BEng in Mechanical Engineering, and I'm toying with the idea of putting in a transfer to the University of Liverpool.
They said they would need a 65% Average to consider me for admission into second year with the University of Liverpool for the same course I'm doing.
]
I don't have a deep understanding of how recruitment will work outside of R-R but I can tell you how it works there. The university you go to is very important to employers with graduate schemes, the Rolls-Royce scheme is vastly over subscribed in terms of applications to places.
One of the filters that brings this down to reasonable number to interview will be the university from which people have got a degree. You need a good institution (I'm not party to whether LJM uni would pass, nor would I tell anyway), a 2:1 and an MEng, I can't over emphasise how many more options you will have if you go for an MEng. While not all schemes will ask for one bare in mind that most people going for jobs on the schemes will have one.
http://www.rolls-royce.com/careers/graduate_progs/...
http://www.baesystems.com/Graduates/GraduateProgra...
http://www.jaguarlandrovercareers.com/Apply/Faqs/G...
http://www.ukgrads.thalesgroup.com/graduate-progra...
As a young engineer all you can normally offer is qualifications, it is possible to get a foot on the ladder with a lower qualification and work your way up building experience as you go but its so much easier to get on the ladder if your qualifications are strong.
cymtriks said:
tybalt said:
I've just been made redundant (mechanical engineer), and there appears to be a shortage of stress engineers/structural dynamics candidates at the moment. I had no problems getting interviews and job offers (I've got ten years experience, and CEng) from aerospace and high tech manufacturing companies.
Where were these jobs? Curious, it's alway interesting to find out who is recruiting.tybalt said:
Having said that, I've decided to quit engineering and retrain (into something better paid).
What? Have you gone over to the dark side and become an accountant?Talksteer said:
Conor D said:
It feels as if I do nothing but post up threads about University on here, I'll try and make this my last.
I'm at John Moores University in Liverpool doing a BEng in Mechanical Engineering, and I'm toying with the idea of putting in a transfer to the University of Liverpool.
They said they would need a 65% Average to consider me for admission into second year with the University of Liverpool for the same course I'm doing.
]
Conor I currently work for Rolls-Royce and I am part of the university liaison team for my old university (Warwick).I'm at John Moores University in Liverpool doing a BEng in Mechanical Engineering, and I'm toying with the idea of putting in a transfer to the University of Liverpool.
They said they would need a 65% Average to consider me for admission into second year with the University of Liverpool for the same course I'm doing.
]
I don't have a deep understanding of how recruitment will work outside of R-R but I can tell you how it works there. The university you go to is very important to employers with graduate schemes, the Rolls-Royce scheme is vastly over subscribed in terms of applications to places.
One of the filters that brings this down to reasonable number to interview will be the university from which people have got a degree. You need a good institution (I'm not party to whether LJM uni would pass, nor would I tell anyway), a 2:1 and an MEng, I can't over emphasise how many more options you will have if you go for an MEng. While not all schemes will ask for one bare in mind that most people going for jobs on the schemes will have one.
http://www.rolls-royce.com/careers/graduate_progs/...
http://www.baesystems.com/Graduates/GraduateProgra...
http://www.jaguarlandrovercareers.com/Apply/Faqs/G...
http://www.ukgrads.thalesgroup.com/graduate-progra...
As a young engineer all you can normally offer is qualifications, it is possible to get a foot on the ladder with a lower qualification and work your way up building experience as you go but its so much easier to get on the ladder if your qualifications are strong.
I really appreciate the help, thanks. It's given me a lot to think about.
Do you have any idea if age plays any part in the recruitment process? For example would a company be more inclined to take on a young 22 year old graduate who went to University directly from A-Levels over a 26 year old graduate for example, who took a year out, repeated a year etc. Both with Identical grades, qualifications and experience.
What are your grades now? I'd be concerned that you didn't get good grades at A level and now seem to see 65% as out of reach? Are you struggling generally or just not putting the work in?
I'd be very concerned about a grad who repeated year 1 without a really good reason and your reason re A level grades wouldn't reassure me.
Are you looking to repeat year 1 because you're not on top of it and you think the transfer gives a good reason for this?
Not having a go at you but this is what comes out of your posts
I'd be very concerned about a grad who repeated year 1 without a really good reason and your reason re A level grades wouldn't reassure me.
Are you looking to repeat year 1 because you're not on top of it and you think the transfer gives a good reason for this?
Not having a go at you but this is what comes out of your posts
Have thought a bit more about this since I last posted.
If I was in your shoes I would stick with your current course and shoot for at least a 2:1 and then follow it up with a masters at a uni with good connections to industry - obviously depending on what you want to do - if you can somehow wrangle it to do your masters project in conjunction with a big company, all the better.
In all honesty, you want to be targetting a MENG - while a lot of companies will say "2:1 Honours or better" you need to think that if they have hundreds of applications to sift through, chucking out any that don't have a masters is an easy way of cutting them down.
If I was in your shoes I would stick with your current course and shoot for at least a 2:1 and then follow it up with a masters at a uni with good connections to industry - obviously depending on what you want to do - if you can somehow wrangle it to do your masters project in conjunction with a big company, all the better.
In all honesty, you want to be targetting a MENG - while a lot of companies will say "2:1 Honours or better" you need to think that if they have hundreds of applications to sift through, chucking out any that don't have a masters is an easy way of cutting them down.
Conor D said:
Hey,
I really appreciate the help, thanks. It's given me a lot to think about.
Do you have any idea if age plays any part in the recruitment process? For example would a company be more inclined to take on a young 22 year old graduate who went to University directly from A-Levels over a 26 year old graduate for example, who took a year out, repeated a year etc. Both with Identical grades, qualifications and experience.
Age plays no role in the recruitment process, it's the law. A 50 year old could turn up for a grad scheme and provided they had the necessary qualifications (or equivalents, asking for qualifications that were not common for a job years ago is also consider age discrimination) get an interview.I really appreciate the help, thanks. It's given me a lot to think about.
Do you have any idea if age plays any part in the recruitment process? For example would a company be more inclined to take on a young 22 year old graduate who went to University directly from A-Levels over a 26 year old graduate for example, who took a year out, repeated a year etc. Both with Identical grades, qualifications and experience.
You would expect to be asked to account for all of your years following school, personally if I was interviewing somebody and they told me that they had failed a year at uni because they were drinking and chasing girls that would be fine. Provided they then came back knuckled down and got a good degree in the end.
Oh and to reiterate MSc is equally as good as an MEng and prospective employers would pay more attention to where that is from than your first degree.
Edited by Talksteer on Sunday 28th November 14:48
I did a very similar thing OP. Different course and different universities, but it was definitely the right decision. I might be diong John Moore a disservice, I don't know it very well, but if it's not a very good university, then move. It's not really the quality of the lectures as such, it's the calibre of your peers that makes a better university so much more stimulating, enjoyable and worthwhile.
To be honest I don't think the actual university matters a jot in terms of employment prospects - maybe if you want to get onto highly selective graduate programmes with the bigger companies, but a few years down the line not at all.
To be honest I don't think the actual university matters a jot in terms of employment prospects - maybe if you want to get onto highly selective graduate programmes with the bigger companies, but a few years down the line not at all.
Piglet said:
What are your grades now? I'd be concerned that you didn't get good grades at A level and now seem to see 65% as out of reach? Are you struggling generally or just not putting the work in?
I'd be very concerned about a grad who repeated year 1 without a really good reason and your reason re A level grades wouldn't reassure me.
Are you looking to repeat year 1 because you're not on top of it and you think the transfer gives a good reason for this?
Not having a go at you but this is what comes out of your posts
My A-Levels are CCC. I didn't have the grades to get into first year at the University of Liverpool if I wanted to get in directly.I'd be very concerned about a grad who repeated year 1 without a really good reason and your reason re A level grades wouldn't reassure me.
Are you looking to repeat year 1 because you're not on top of it and you think the transfer gives a good reason for this?
Not having a go at you but this is what comes out of your posts
Out of all my friends who are now in their second year, I don't actually know any of them who achieved over 65% in their first year (But I'm not sure how much work they put in). Manchester, Queens University Belfast, Liverpool John Moores, University of Liverpool, whatever University they were at they all seemed to just about pass with maybe one or two up around 50-55%.
When I spoke to a girl at the University of Liverpool regarding admission into second year she told me that for a university like Manchester they would expect a pass rate of around 40-50%, but because I was coming from John Moores I would be expected to achieve 65%.
Adam B said:
as an employer reading this I would be more concerned that you are considering that you will not get the 65% required
pull your finger. get the 65%, switch to the 2nd year at the better uni
I don't know how I am doing though, we haven't got any marks for coursework back yet, we haven't done very much in the way of exams and my first assessment is in two weeks time. I'm being a bit skeptical based on how other people I know have done. pull your finger. get the 65%, switch to the 2nd year at the better uni
As someone who has just graduated and started work on a graduate scheme, I would say that universities do matter and age doesn't at all. Some of the guys on my graduate scheme are in their mid-30s and and I'd say 50% would be in their later 20s. But the number of different universities we have come from is surprisingly small. I think the university you go to does make a big difference, especially if it is accredited by the IMechE.
Conor, I have some questions...
1) did you retake the A levels and can you shed light on the reason for retakes if you did them? It's just useful to know.
2) why you want to go to the University of Liverpool as opposed to any other University out there.
3) how much time are you spending in labs & lectures a week, and how much time are you spending on problem sheets & doing the exercises in the textbooks?
If you are brainy but distracted then I think your situation is salvageable provided you can discipline yourself to spend enough time in front of the books and enough time out of the pub. If it is the other way round then stay where you are.
Just remember that most employers don't really care whether you joined x, y, or z social club, it's nice and all that, but they really don't care. It should be all about the results - if you are not putting enough effort in then you are doing yourself a disservice.
1) did you retake the A levels and can you shed light on the reason for retakes if you did them? It's just useful to know.
2) why you want to go to the University of Liverpool as opposed to any other University out there.
3) how much time are you spending in labs & lectures a week, and how much time are you spending on problem sheets & doing the exercises in the textbooks?
If you are brainy but distracted then I think your situation is salvageable provided you can discipline yourself to spend enough time in front of the books and enough time out of the pub. If it is the other way round then stay where you are.
Just remember that most employers don't really care whether you joined x, y, or z social club, it's nice and all that, but they really don't care. It should be all about the results - if you are not putting enough effort in then you are doing yourself a disservice.
Conor D said:
Piglet said:
What are your grades now? I'd be concerned that you didn't get good grades at A level and now seem to see 65% as out of reach? Are you struggling generally or just not putting the work in?
I'd be very concerned about a grad who repeated year 1 without a really good reason and your reason re A level grades wouldn't reassure me.
Are you looking to repeat year 1 because you're not on top of it and you think the transfer gives a good reason for this?
Not having a go at you but this is what comes out of your posts
My A-Levels are CCC. I didn't have the grades to get into first year at the University of Liverpool if I wanted to get in directly.I'd be very concerned about a grad who repeated year 1 without a really good reason and your reason re A level grades wouldn't reassure me.
Are you looking to repeat year 1 because you're not on top of it and you think the transfer gives a good reason for this?
Not having a go at you but this is what comes out of your posts
Out of all my friends who are now in their second year, I don't actually know any of them who achieved over 65% in their first year (But I'm not sure how much work they put in). Manchester, Queens University Belfast, Liverpool John Moores, University of Liverpool, whatever University they were at they all seemed to just about pass with maybe one or two up around 50-55%.
When I spoke to a girl at the University of Liverpool regarding admission into second year she told me that for a university like Manchester they would expect a pass rate of around 40-50%, but because I was coming from John Moores I would be expected to achieve 65%.
blimey, those marks aren't great. Is that normal for the subject? Presumably not? I studied Law and I'd have been pretty devastated to be getting marks around that level (and I was a mature entrant with no A levels). If you don't have any grades to base a decision on, I'd suggest you stop worry about the "what ifs" and put your head down and concentrate on getting a decent set of grades out of this set of coursework. You can then reassess when you get those marks (January?).
Get yourself motivated, aim high (or at least at 65%) and then you can think about applying to LU if you think that's the best move. Don't sit back on your heels thinking you can't do it and repeat a year for the hell of it.
As a context, a repeated year will cost you a year's salary - so let's say £20k, plus the cost of another year - say £7k on your student loan, so by sitting on your heels and not putting your head down you might be costing yourself around £30k - how does that sound?
JUST DO IT
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff