Depression

[V40Vinnie]

227bhp said:

Classic vending machine type story.

I'm anonymous too and I can't judge as I don't who the heck you are. Getting you to talk to someone who can help isn't going to be easy for me as when help is offered I grab it with both hands, but you have to remember you have a worth, everyone does in some way. Also there are people who can help, it's their job to so try to reach out and grab some of what they offer.

Vending Machine? so i'm ok i'm just crazy?

[227bhp]

I don't think you can be ok and crazy as they are at opposite ends of the spectrum, everyone is on there somewhere, you'd probably be labelled as 'a bit lost, awaiting change'. Problem is you're waiting for someone else to trigger it, they won't, it has to come from you and you have to want it.

If you don't want it, sit and moan about it, feel sorry for yourself, carry on. It's what many people do, look on this thread and go onto any depression forum, there is plenty of it. People rock up, download, feel better. Are they actually looking for an answer or change or just a quick fix?

You go up to the vending machine every day, 60p goes in, press B, packet of plain crisps comes out.
Always the same, day in, day out.

One day you realise you need a change. £1.20 goes in, press button H, something different drops out. Do you like this new thing? Might do, might not. If you don't so what? It's no great loss, you get the chance to put the money in again and hit a different button.

Apply it to your life; whilst ever the input is the same, that you do the same thing, the result, the outcome will also be the same. Every time.
When put like that it's obvious isn't it? Yet we miss it, we just don't see it or maybe we don't want to.

You have to want that change, it has to come from you and you can enlist whatever or whoever is qualified to do it.

Edited by 227bhp on Monday 23 January 19:58

[V40Vinnie]

227bhp said:

I don't think you can be ok and crazy as they are at opposite ends of the spectrum, everyone is on there somewhere, you'd probably be labelled as 'a bit lost, awaiting change'. Problem is you're waiting for someone else to trigger it, they won't, it has to come from you and you have to want it.

If you don't want it, sit and moan about it, feel sorry for yourself, carry on. It's what many people do, look on this thread and go onto any depression forum, there is plenty of it. People rock up, download, feel better. Are they actually looking for an answer or change or just a quick fix?

You go up to the vending machine every day, 60p goes in, press B, packet of plain crisps comes out.
Every day the same.

One day you realise you need a change. £1.20 goes in, press button H, something different drops out. Do you like this new thing? Might do, might not. If you don't so what, it's no great loss.

Apply it to your life; whilst ever the input is consistent, the result will also be the same. Every time.

I'm going to speak to a Dr on monday. i'll be honest im terrified of doing it. I just thought i was stronger than i am, i thought i could cope. People get fostered/adopted an awful lot as kids i just never thought it would bite me on the arse 25 odd years later.

[Derek Smith]

V40Vinnie said:

I'm going to speak to a Dr on monday. i'll be honest im terrified of doing it. I just thought i was stronger than i am, i thought i could cope. People get fostered/adopted an awful lot as kids i just never thought it would bite me on the arse 25 odd years later.

I went to see a Dr at the gentle insistence of my wife. A turning point in my life. All of a sudden I realised that I wasn't weird, just ill. I got lots of help.

It was a long slog and at times it felt as if it wasn't worth all the effort, but when out the other end I felt, knew in fact, that hard though it was, I was stronger and more stable than ever in my life.

Despite the depression, the times I now remember are the positives, the help from loved ones and friends, and the funny side. A defence lawyer tried to get my evidence excluded because, according to her, I was mad. I went to see a lovely psychiatrist, now retired, who asked to speak with my wife - she's never told me what he said and I've never asked but she said it 'explained many things'. I ended up with a report which said my testimony could be trusted. The odd thing is that if I told anyone I had a note from a doctor saying I was sane, everyone immediately thought I was mad.

The thing is that depression is a self-protective response, something like limping when you've got a bad ankle. You have to work on the cause.

I would not be without the time when I saw things differently. It brought me closer to my wife and family. It showed me who my friends were. Unfortunately it showed me on occasion that those whom I thought were good mates, and would help, suddenly became evasive and evanescent. I asked for their help and they said no, which made me very bitter. Now though I'm over it. Before I was ill I would have nurtured the rejection and looked for payback, and probably have found it.

There is a certain irony to the fact that I used to be in control of my body but my emotions set their own agenda. Now it's the other way around, but this is better in many ways.

[oldbanger]

V40Vinnie said:

It's time for me to take this seriously... I've posted on here before somewhat vanishingly when things have felt beyond my ability to handle them. I guess on a forum full of strangers judgement doesnt matter as i'll probably never meet any of you in real life anyway. I've had depression on an off since i was 18 im now 30. I can probably pin point a couple of senarios in my past that have led to it or atleast drive the negative thoughts i have about myself. My current situation isnt really helping me much as i struggle to get a hand on the career ladder (i dont want to waste a zoology degree). I genuinely despise who i am and i struggle with the fact that who i see myself as does not tally with who my friends see. The same friends that im always working hard to be strong for incase they need something.

I always trot out the line that im just 1 in 7 billion people and if you count all life on earth i'm even more expendable/worthless/insignificant. In most cases it becomes a game of what reason shall i find to keep going on. My ethic has always been 'ok thats a bad situation ill put my head down and keep striving and pushing' but to what end?

The irony is speaking to any kind of professional about it scares the living crap out of me as ive shut the door on things in my life and im now too scared to open it.

Pistonheads is easy, i'm hiding behind a computer... None of you know me although im sure some of you have opinions... Its easy for me to be open as there is no connection i'm just an anonymous data entry.

But im asking as a terrified 30 year old who isnt sure where to turn what do i do? This cant go on forever, I can either continue down a path that may or may not destroy me or i can do what feels like wasting someones time and ask for help. Ive already seriously considered an exit in the last 6 months and with a family member that has terminal Myeloma im not sure im strong enough to be supportive.

Edited by V40Vinnie on Saturday 14th January 22:59

It took me a few years of going to professionals, talking about and hiding behind current problems, before I actually managed to start talking about the root problems, and it took a bit of a crisis to take that step. Once it was done, it did get easier. From my experience I would suggest a few things:

a) going to the standard talk therapists (eg, CBT, counselling) and telling them from the outset is that one of your problems is talking about things
b) taking a route which specifically covers trauma, so will address mood directly e.g. EMDR therapy
c) using methods to manage mood which don't require you to actively look at your problems e.g. mindfulness
d) using meds and/or other supplementary methods to boost your mental state: depression is part mental and part biological, it's an early symptom of both cancer and diabetes for example - inflammation, high blood sugars, hormone imbalances and deficiencies all can cause depressive symptoms, it's a side effect of long term stress too (stress raises cortisol, causes inflammation and lots of other things). You can tackle biological causes or aggravating factors alongside everything else.

For me the things that have had the strongest effect were EMDR, mindfulness and addressing lifestyle issues (e.g. getting more exercise and daylight, improved sleep hygiene, cutting out alcohol and sugar, healthy eating, in my case I found paleo, and taking vitamin D and magnesium supplements). Because I tried these things one by one over more than 15 years, I can say I genuinely saw improvements. Mindfulness was probably the easiest one to try, because there are so many free or cheap classes and it's usually a group setting where you're not asked to talk about yourself or why you're there.

CBT and counselling kept me going for a few years before then, as did anti-depressants. They definitely had their place.

I too struggled to get a career in my chosen degree subject (not too dissimilar to yours) and wasted my 20s doing low paid temp roles and chasing a PhD. Partly the problem was my own depression, but actually it wasn't an industry with lots of good, well paid roles, anyway. I found a new career in my 30s and love it. Don't be too fixed on one route - failure is also opportunity.

Also, don't worry about supporting everyone else. You are responsible to people, not for them.

Edited by oldbanger on Sunday 15th January 12:42

[Joey Ramone]

V40Vinnie said:

People get fostered/adopted an awful lot as kids i just never thought it would bite me on the arse 25 odd years later.

My parents died when I was a kid (father when I was 3, mother when I was 17). i thought I had 'got away' with it. Turns out i haven't. 43, and suffering bouts of depression and crippling anxiety. All of which is related to those childhood traumas. You will be suffering in a similar fashion, albeit for slightly different reasons.

Get help. I am. It's the only way.

[oldbanger]

V40Vinnie said:

I'm going to speak to a Dr on monday. i'll be honest im terrified of doing it. I just thought i was stronger than i am, i thought i could cope. People get fostered/adopted an awful lot as kids i just never thought it would bite me on the arse 25 odd years later.

As someone with two fostered/adopted children who I know didn't come from a background of abuse though there was a lot of other things going on for their mum (their birth mum was my sister, who was in and out of hospital), the amount of trauma they have suffered from losing their birth mum and being moved between carers when they were little is mind-boggling.

This is far more understood now than it was 20+ years ago, but there's still a long way to go. Stress in the womb, e.g. due to poverty, violence or illness, will affect the baby as stress hormones pass the placenta. Even single, quick and uneventful carer changes will affect a baby. Basically from being in the womb to approx. 18 months, there is a period of rapid neuron development in response to stimuli (e.g. stress in the womb, interaction with parents, carers etc.), after which there is a "pruning" of neurons (which, from training I've had, doesn't happen well in autism). The effects aren't permanent, but they will be long term, and absolutely could increase the risk of things like adult depression. There's quite a lot of scientific literature on this now. Of course severe abuse/neglect will have the most profound effect, but that doesn't mean that less dramatic situations wouldn't have some effect on your life.

[V40Vinnie]

Joey Ramone said:

My parents died when I was a kid (father when I was 3, mother when I was 17). i thought I had 'got away' with it. Turns out i haven't. 43, and suffering bouts of depression and crippling anxiety. All of which is related to those childhood traumas. You will be suffering in a similar fashion, albeit for slightly different reasons.

Get help. I am. It's the only way.

It's like i know my past but i've never squared with it. It was also not helped by the same person who brought me into this world then having a few more kids who she then kept. I know circumstances change and every fibre of my logical side is saying she couldnt cope. The other side of me is blaming me for it its my fault and there was a reason personally why i had to be thrown away. Its like i can connect the dots from a 3rd person perspective but i'm drawing a blank at connecting it to me. I find myself being drawn back into the fact im one organism in an entire planet so therefore have no value (except in spare parts).

[AMG Merc]

227bhp said:

AMG Merc said:

Just saw this. Is OP still checking in? Its be
en 6 years. Didn't want to trawl through 32 pages

Worryingly not seen since before Christmas, I do hope he's ok.

+1 of course.

As said, I've not the time to trawl through all postings here but on reviewing OP's original post I wondered whether anyone suggested CFS/ME as often brain fog is mentioned by sufferers. The thing with this is medics don't get to this as a cause until way down the list and it requires specific tests.

Just a thought.

[227bhp]

V40Vinnie said:

I'm going to speak to a Dr on monday. i'll be honest im terrified of doing it. I just thought i was stronger than i am, i thought i could cope. People get fostered/adopted an awful lot as kids i just never thought it would bite me on the arse 25 odd years later.

It's a step in the right direction, are you taking anything at the moment? Will it help to discuss or even pre-empt how we think it will go tomorrow?
It won't be so bad, breaking it down into it's basic component pieces helps sometimes.

[V40Vinnie]

227bhp said:

It's a step in the right direction, are you taking anything at the moment? Will it help to discuss or even pre-empt how we think it will go tomorrow?
It won't be so bad, breaking it down into it's basic component pieces helps sometimes.

I'm not on anything other than a conscious decision to avoid alcohol until i'm through it, There is something in me that really doesnt like the idea of chemical emotion control... I dont know what to expect and like i said being behind a screen removes the fear of talking to people i dont know.. I cant see you so nothing bad can happen but one on one with someone that is going to encourage me to look inwardly has got my brain working overtime i'm shaking now just typing. I wish i could just stay out of my own head...

[227bhp]

P.S. You might find some solace in Philip Larkins 'This be the verse'.

[227bhp]

V40Vinnie said:

227bhp said:

It's a step in the right direction, are you taking anything at the moment? Will it help to discuss or even pre-empt how we think it will go tomorrow?
It won't be so bad, breaking it down into its basic component pieces helps sometimes.

I'm not on anything other than a conscious decision to avoid alcohol until i'm through it, There is something in me that really doesn't like the idea of chemical emotion control... I dont know what to expect and like i said being behind a screen removes the fear of talking to people i dont know.. I cant see you so nothing bad can happen but one on one with someone that is going to encourage me to look inwardly has got my brain working overtime i'm shaking now just typing. I wish i could just stay out of my own head...

As per above replies some people quite rightly call it fog, but what you have in your head might be better described as:



If that was in front of you on the desk you could work around it bit by bit and sort it out, doing it by thought in your head? Lol, no way are you going to get through that, no-one would and that's one reason why you can ask for help and not be scared to either. It is a bit of a catch 22 situation you've got there though, but hopefully you can work through it, it's a long time to be carrying that weight on your shoulders.

I'm not a fan of ADs either, they work for many and should be a short term fix, but if you can do without then it may be better for you. Just don't rule them out completely, if or when you get to speak to a Counsellor then they will advise. Speaking of which it may take some time to get to see one, you might also get one you can't get along with and need to try another, it can be a lengthy process, just being realistic here. Some days you'll take a step forwards, sometimes one back. I'm guessing your job situation means you can't pay for one? If you can it's worth considering, what price is your health?

Anyhow i'll sign off wishing you the all the best with it, if it helps to keep on writing on here then do so, it can in more ways than one. Don't be a stranger in every way

[jonamv8]

Ruskie - how u doing pal??

[andy-xr]

V40Vinnie said:

There is something in me that really doesnt like the idea of chemical emotion control

I think because there's some shame associated with them. Like, you should be able to do this on your own and people who take 'them' can't handle it. But you can, you should. You're strong, right?

Only its not working out so you beaver away more with the brain, trying to find the a swer to this endless riddle

I took venlafaxine for a year and a half, probably the last 3 months I didn't need them and was on a low dose because I wanted to make sure I was 'OK'

I treated the ADs like a crutch while doing physio. For clarity's sake I did a fk load of psychotherapy and the ADs helped me get some space from my brain so I could be a little more objective and work through the issues. They really helped get me the head space I needed.

I think if you look at them as magic fixes then you might be let down, which isn't good when you're searching for hope. Teamed up with a course, an action on your part and they might work.

They might not, too. I'm no advocate for prescriptions but I'd never rule anything out when it comes to your well being

[Derek Smith]

andy-xr said:

V40Vinnie said:

There is something in me that really doesnt like the idea of chemical emotion control

I think because there's some shame associated with them. Like, you should be able to do this on your own and people who take 'them' can't handle it. But you can, you should. You're strong, right?

Only its not working out so you beaver away more with the brain, trying to find the a swer to this endless riddle

I took venlafaxine for a year and a half, probably the last 3 months I didn't need them and was on a low dose because I wanted to make sure I was 'OK'

I treated the ADs like a crutch while doing physio. For clarity's sake I did a fk load of psychotherapy and the ADs helped me get some space from my brain so I could be a little more objective and work through the issues. They really helped get me the head space I needed.

I think if you look at them as magic fixes then you might be let down, which isn't good when you're searching for hope. Teamed up with a course, an action on your part and they might work.

They might not, too. I'm no advocate for prescriptions but I'd never rule anything out when it comes to your well being

Here's another vote for chemical relief.

I was reluctant to take pills. I knew that the pharmaceutical industry was built on sales and that most pills had little effect but I'd got to the stage where I'd try anything.

They worked to an extent. They took away the desperation. I don't think they were a cure as I reckon that has to come from inside, but they made it easier to work towards a solution. I had lots of help from a superb psychologist and I was lucky enough to be required to see a psychiatrist and the one I got was very helpful. Even then, I think the pills helped me to be receptive.

Some suggest they are little better than placebos, but if so that little bit extra was just enough for me.

I do wonder if I'd have managed to get through to the other side without them but, thankfully, it doesn't matter.

Different things work for different people, although I know no one for whom alcohol was a solution. A bloke I had worked with before reckoned that cannabis has the same effect and he knew a reliable source being ex drugs squad, so decided not to be a burden on the NHS. He'd come to work smelling of the stuff to anyone who knew the odour, so was put into a well ventilated room. He stopped using once he got over the worst.

I needed a bit of space, a calming period, and the drugs, SSRIs, gave me just that. It might have been, as some suggest, all in my mind, but then so was my problem.

[LondonEagle15]

Hi guys, long time lurker but first time poster - I've found reading this thread quite therapeutic, a lot of similarities and nodding in agreement moments. I've had a rough time in the last few months with stress at work and home which was damaging my relationship, which has now ended. As a result, having hit rock bottom, I attempted to take my own life and I now find myself on the recovery road.

I've suffered with anxiety/depression for a probably 10 years or so now (I'm late 20s) and as I've matured I've started to get a basic understanding of the root cause. It seems to stem from a fear of rejection, in all aspects - from relationships (once they hit that six month stage I start to get paranoid and cautious about an incoming rejection, thus making me not the person they initially fell for) through to work and home life. I have OCD tendencies so find myself quite organised and controlled, which can be damaging if not managed correctly. Understandably, following on from my actions at rock bottom, the reactions from friends/family were mixed - some have been really supportive, some have been quiet and some have been really distant. I've found that I've been pretty open with my thoughts and feelings, which has been positively received, but life has pretty much returned to normal, there are no red flags or concerns around me.

I had gone to a therapist (private) but that didn't really do too much for me, I found it as if he was just saying yes and agreeing to me because that's what I wanted to hear. The NHS have scheduled for a six session therapy session which I should be starting soon, but otherwise it's been a 'business as usual' approach for most. My GP had prescribed some anti-depressants but I found that they made me worse, I had a consistent 'foggy' head and depressive thoughts were more frequent, so for now, I've stopped taking medication.

I've found reading self help books and watching videos has helped a fair bit - it's allowed me to withdraw some emotion from my decision making and I find myself relatively emotionless at the moment. I'm intelligent enough to know that I'll never be 'cured' and that there will always be an element to it with me, but for now my focus is to try and understand it a bit better and learn to manage it.

[xjay1337]

Welcome and well done for opening up.

Why do you fear rejection? Is there a reason for this, childhood, previous relationships etc?

The problem with self help books is some of them are not helpful at all lol, you think the people who write them are more messed up than you.
SSRI's don't work for everyone. Neither does Therapy - But hopefully you are on the right track

[V40Vinnie]

I went to my Drs to book an appointment and was turned away (apparantly you have to ring up instead). It hasn't helped me at all to be honest i feel even more anxious about it now

[LondonEagle15]

xjay1337 said:

Welcome and well done for opening up.

Why do you fear rejection? Is there a reason for this, childhood, previous relationships etc?

The problem with self help books is some of them are not helpful at all lol, you think the people who write them are more messed up than you.
SSRI's don't work for everyone. Neither does Therapy - But hopefully you are on the right track

Not sure, the usual bullied at school and being an outcast spring to mind, but I'm relatively popular these days (being in a front facing role at work means I'm well liked). It's most prominent in relationships, so there's no doubt something there. Agree with the books/videos - some I've found useful and some I've stopped reading/watching fairly early on as they don't relate at all. I know it's a long process, but as long as there is progress, that's all that matters.

I've found this thread great and thought it was about time I started contributing