Discussion
Patch1875 said:
Did they not say don't look are the side effects!
I suffered with feeling sick and listless initially. I was told it might last for six weeks but for me it was over in two. In talking to another sufferer who'd come out the other side, he said that much of the benefit is from the placebo effect going by the test results. Who cares, as long as it works.
I had withdrawal symptoms, but I've got the feeling that I was more worried about 'going it alone'. My main problem was nightmares in which I would grab hold of a rapist and smash his face into the side of the identification unit screen, opening his face up to the bone, and then going further, the splinters of wood cutting into his forehead and eyebrows. The specific offender subjected an 18 year old to a whole series of sexual assaults, including rape, buggery and worse. It was the case that just eased me over the edge.
I would wake up sweating, crying and shaking. I'd had to move into the spare room as I would thrash about, bruising my wife a couple of times. Not the sort of thing that helped my condition.
The thing was that I enjoyed the nightmares, dreams really, and I would go back to sleep in the hope that I would have the same one again. Yet I'm a gentle soul. The SSIDs killed the dreams and if they had done nothing else I would have been happy. But I felt more confident of an outcome when on them. Coming off the pills was scary. I had headaches. I never have headaches unless I've hit my head or am dehydrated, so I didn't know how to cope. But they were gone within a week.
I had another period of feeling down and was reluctant to go back on them but in the end I had to give in. Once I started I felt better within a few days and I wondered why I was so fussed. I think it was because I didn't want to admit I was still ill. I swear by them but, of course, with the caveat that they worked for me. Some say they had no effect.
As this thread brought the period back into my mind, I asked my wife yesterday if there's any residue from my time on the other side. She said I talk too much. I nodded. She also said I ask silly questions.
As I said before, I view the world differently now. I wish I'd had this insight, maturity, point of view, call it what you will, years ago. I feel I would have done a lot more with my life. I enjoy my time with my wife, family and friends much more than I used to. I don't get fussed over petty details. I have meant to paint the porch for over a year. I feel as if I've cracked it.
V40Vinnie said:
Patch1875 said:
Did they not say don't look are the side effects!
nope nothing their advice extended to may not work for the first two weeks and if you're not used to it take it in the evening Whilst they might not do much for your libido, you may well find that once you get going you can go for hrs
i haven't read the thread, which is a bit weird as this is what i do all day every day, but for those struggling to get GP reviews there are alternatives.
be under no illusion, some people will need scripting and perseverance at the surgery may be the only way to achieve this. keep in mind though that a GP is exactly that - a general practitioner. they operate within certain proscribed guidelines (check NICE guidelines for tx of anxiety and depression in primary care) and after they exhaust those they are, usually, a bit stuck (no offence to my colleagues in general practice intended btw).
you can short cut the process if you know what you're at. individuals with biological features of a depressive episode are more suited to a course of anti-deps - course = 9-12 months. things to identify here are disrupted sleep, anorexia, loss of libido, anergia, anhedonia, poor concentration, irritability, diurnal variations in mood etc. those with primarily cognitive features (depressive thought content, catastrophising, loss of motivation etc) will probably do better with a more psychologically based intervention. Google "IAPT (in your own locality/postcode)" and self refer.
approx 25% of those experiencing a mood disorder will recover spontaneously ie, if we do nothing at all. life changes, they change, s
t goes away etc. approx 25% of the remainder will be only treated with anti-deps and will be fine, eventually. the majority though will require a combination of therapies (drugs and psychological intervention).
for info; IAPT is a primary care service to deliver Improved Access to Psychological Therapies. For years we have been dealing with people experiencing low-moderate mood disturbance who are beyond the scope of the GP but fall short of the eligibility criteria for specialist, secondary, mental health services. IAPT is the bit "in the middle".
paul
be under no illusion, some people will need scripting and perseverance at the surgery may be the only way to achieve this. keep in mind though that a GP is exactly that - a general practitioner. they operate within certain proscribed guidelines (check NICE guidelines for tx of anxiety and depression in primary care) and after they exhaust those they are, usually, a bit stuck (no offence to my colleagues in general practice intended btw).
you can short cut the process if you know what you're at. individuals with biological features of a depressive episode are more suited to a course of anti-deps - course = 9-12 months. things to identify here are disrupted sleep, anorexia, loss of libido, anergia, anhedonia, poor concentration, irritability, diurnal variations in mood etc. those with primarily cognitive features (depressive thought content, catastrophising, loss of motivation etc) will probably do better with a more psychologically based intervention. Google "IAPT (in your own locality/postcode)" and self refer.
approx 25% of those experiencing a mood disorder will recover spontaneously ie, if we do nothing at all. life changes, they change, s
t goes away etc. approx 25% of the remainder will be only treated with anti-deps and will be fine, eventually. the majority though will require a combination of therapies (drugs and psychological intervention).for info; IAPT is a primary care service to deliver Improved Access to Psychological Therapies. For years we have been dealing with people experiencing low-moderate mood disturbance who are beyond the scope of the GP but fall short of the eligibility criteria for specialist, secondary, mental health services. IAPT is the bit "in the middle".
paul
Thanks all for your thoughts on sleeplessness and turning things over in your mind, it comes and goes for me so I know what it's like, but it's the OH I worry about, she doesn't suffer from depression, but terrible sleeplessness. I'm inclined to think she's thinking about allsorts that keeps her awake, but who knows. She got tested for the usual stuff years ago before I met her, (apnoea etc) and all they could find was a lack of a certain chemical and gave her tablets (which don't work). How she copes on so little sleep is beyond me.
V40Vinnie said:
nope nothing their advice extended to may not work for the first two weeks and if you're not used to it take it in the evening
Again, you're the one taking them. I found with venlafaxine it was quite activating, so while I was told to take it in the morning and evening, I ended up wide awake all night so I just moved it to earlier in the day. The thing I found, I went through 4 other ADs before finding one that worked
When I saw worked, I mean had some effects on me that didn't whack me out cold for 6+ hours, allowed me to keep upna day job, be able to pitch a tent and not puke while eating.
Its a journey you'll need to go through, I can only speak from my own experience but it was worth it.
If you get thoughts of you're the only one in the room on pills, you'll probably be surprised at howany other people are also on something.
[quote=andy-xr
If you get thoughts of you're the only one in the room on pills, you'll probably be surprised at howany other people are also on something.
[/quote]
Absolutely this. We all react differently to medication.
I was amazed how I used to function on so little sleep.
We are all much strong than we think. It is just sometimes life's challenges all come at once.
One thing that I find heartening is how we are more willing to talk about this nowadays. Previous generations must have gone through absolute hell
If you get thoughts of you're the only one in the room on pills, you'll probably be surprised at howany other people are also on something.
[/quote]
Absolutely this. We all react differently to medication.
I was amazed how I used to function on so little sleep.
We are all much strong than we think. It is just sometimes life's challenges all come at once.
One thing that I find heartening is how we are more willing to talk about this nowadays. Previous generations must have gone through absolute hell
Sorry, trying to lighten the situation, which I'm sure isn't that funny!
V40Vinnie said:
Is it normal to feel this anxious before a consultation meeting? they also said they wanted to try and ensure my safety which has got me in full panic mode. Help? Someone?
There are two ways of looking at people: no one is normal or we are all more or less the same. Each is correct. There are others more or less like you, so you are normal to them. On the other hand there are those who are not like you. No one knows the numbers because the differentiation is so vague. If you feel anxious then it is for a reason, but that doesn't mean there's something to be anxious about.
What surprised me the first time I went to see my doctor was the way in which it was dealt with. I was treated seriously. I was listened to. I was given options. I had an appointment offered with a nurse, together with other systems. If you have said something which has given them concern then just go with it. Believe it or not, doctors seem to know what they are doing.
The one thing that became clearer to me after I came out the other side, more or less intact, was that I could see similar problems in others. One supervisor gave me a lot of aggravation, putting me under pressure which probably didn't help me. One of the questions I asked myself was why did he pick on me and my conclusion was that I wasn't good enough. Oddly enough, I knew he was rubbish at his job and he needed support from the rank below, which he didn't get, apart from the yes [wo]men. Afterwards I realised that he, like me, was struggling with his role, in his case because he knew his lack of competence. I didn't, probably couldn't, see it at the time. He flipped some years later.
There are a lot of people out there close to the edge. Most won't fall over, but most won't be as stable as you will be once you've cracked it.
A little while ago, after I got better, that's better than I was, something happened which previously would have made me very angry and resentful. When I was told I just shrugged. It happened. Nothing I could do would change that. I then worked towards its remedy. I suddenly realised how much I'd changed and I was all but laughing. The one regret I have is that I didn't know myself so well years ago. I could have got a lot more out of life. So going a bit mad is not so bad. It took me four and a half years, but it was worth it in many ways.
Derek Smith said:
There are two ways of looking at people: no one is normal or we are all more or less the same. Each is correct. There are others more or less like you, so you are normal to them. On the other hand there are those who are not like you. No one knows the numbers because the differentiation is so vague.
If you feel anxious then it is for a reason, but that doesn't mean there's something to be anxious about.
What surprised me the first time I went to see my doctor was the way in which it was dealt with. I was treated seriously. I was listened to. I was given options. I had an appointment offered with a nurse, together with other systems. If you have said something which has given them concern then just go with it. Believe it or not, doctors seem to know what they are doing.
The one thing that became clearer to me after I came out the other side, more or less intact, was that I could see similar problems in others. One supervisor gave me a lot of aggravation, putting me under pressure which probably didn't help me. One of the questions I asked myself was why did he pick on me and my conclusion was that I wasn't good enough. Oddly enough, I knew he was rubbish at his job and he needed support from the rank below, which he didn't get, apart from the yes [wo]men. Afterwards I realised that he, like me, was struggling with his role, in his case because he knew his lack of competence. I didn't, probably couldn't, see it at the time. He flipped some years later.
There are a lot of people out there close to the edge. Most won't fall over, but most won't be as stable as you will be once you've cracked it.
A little while ago, after I got better, that's better than I was, something happened which previously would have made me very angry and resentful. When I was told I just shrugged. It happened. Nothing I could do would change that. I then worked towards its remedy. I suddenly realised how much I'd changed and I was all but laughing. The one regret I have is that I didn't know myself so well years ago. I could have got a lot more out of life. So going a bit mad is not so bad. It took me four and a half years, but it was worth it in many ways.
You suggested i may have said something that caused concern? I felt obliged to tell them that i had considered suicide in the last six months but backed out of it. I dont understand why the worry though because im just another person in real terms there are plenty more people so why get concerned? I just dont understand. I dont know whats going to happen and im scared If you feel anxious then it is for a reason, but that doesn't mean there's something to be anxious about.
What surprised me the first time I went to see my doctor was the way in which it was dealt with. I was treated seriously. I was listened to. I was given options. I had an appointment offered with a nurse, together with other systems. If you have said something which has given them concern then just go with it. Believe it or not, doctors seem to know what they are doing.
The one thing that became clearer to me after I came out the other side, more or less intact, was that I could see similar problems in others. One supervisor gave me a lot of aggravation, putting me under pressure which probably didn't help me. One of the questions I asked myself was why did he pick on me and my conclusion was that I wasn't good enough. Oddly enough, I knew he was rubbish at his job and he needed support from the rank below, which he didn't get, apart from the yes [wo]men. Afterwards I realised that he, like me, was struggling with his role, in his case because he knew his lack of competence. I didn't, probably couldn't, see it at the time. He flipped some years later.
There are a lot of people out there close to the edge. Most won't fall over, but most won't be as stable as you will be once you've cracked it.
A little while ago, after I got better, that's better than I was, something happened which previously would have made me very angry and resentful. When I was told I just shrugged. It happened. Nothing I could do would change that. I then worked towards its remedy. I suddenly realised how much I'd changed and I was all but laughing. The one regret I have is that I didn't know myself so well years ago. I could have got a lot more out of life. So going a bit mad is not so bad. It took me four and a half years, but it was worth it in many ways.
V40Vinnie said:
You suggested i may have said something that caused concern? I felt obliged to tell them that i had considered suicide in the last six months but backed out of it. I dont understand why the worry though because im just another person in real terms there are plenty more people so why get concerned? I just dont understand. I dont know whats going to happen and im scared
Most of those who suffer from PTSD/clinical depression (the symptoms are indistinguishable) will have these thoughts. Looking back now I'm bewildered, but they were there. I'd even planned the location and method. My psychiatrist took an interest in my somewhat casual mention of my thoughts. I assume it is something they are on the lookout for. The interview went off at a tangent for a while. It was brought up a couple to times by my psychologist. It is nothing more than concern. They are looking after your needs. My psychologist was very helpful in the matter. I won't go into what he said, or the methods he used, but I can see now why he said what he did.
You will get worried about things which later will make you wonder why. Such assurances are of no use to you at the moment of course. Advice is of little use. It wasn't to me anyway. But what helped me start of the way out was just accepting whatever was coming. Nothing's going to happen apart from people talking with you, asking questions and trying to get you to talk. I was honest and open from the start, at least as honest as I felt able to be. The unburdening was a big relief.
You will have a low level of self esteem. This goes against logic but that won't matter to you. But you are not just another person, that's what the treatment will show you.
Look forward to the first step. It's what's needed for every journey.
Fozziebear said:
andy-xr said:
Get Out of your Mind and Into Your Life by Stephen C Hayes changed the entire way I looked at anything in my life. I've never said that about a book before. It's quite heavy, it's very challenging, it's probably not for everyone. But for me, it really really helped
I've started "the subtle art of not giving a f#ck". My main issue at the moment is anger, I am the angry man I never wanted to be. k book great read but didn't change anything for me Ilovejapcrap said:
Just read not giving a fk book great read but didn't change anything for me
I'm using it to just clear my mind, which is full of mash potatoes at the moment. I'm training everyday, running and weights and judo twice a week, I have good days and bad days. I'm collecting my punchbag from a mate this week, I need to punch something rather than someone. k book great read but didn't change anything for me the symptoms of PTSD and a Major Depressive Episode are very much distinguishable and there are significant implications for treatment in each case. Check with DSM or ICD if you feel differently, always happy to be corrected. (sorry, that sounded combative - not intended). one of the well-reported side effects of PTSD, when untreated, can be the development of a treatable depression but this is a stand alone clinical entity and requires separate consideration.
anticipatory anxiety is normal - it becomes abnormal when avoidant strategies take over and we do nothing.
suicidal ideation is exactly that - ideation. professionals will and should explore it. however, ideation is not the same as intent or plan and this is what they will want to dig into.
paul
anticipatory anxiety is normal - it becomes abnormal when avoidant strategies take over and we do nothing.
suicidal ideation is exactly that - ideation. professionals will and should explore it. however, ideation is not the same as intent or plan and this is what they will want to dig into.
paul
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 20th January 00:28
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 20th January 00:35
paulmakin said:
the symptoms of PTSD and a Major Depressive Episode are very much distinguishable and there are significant implications for treatment in each case. Check with DSM or ICD if you feel differently, always happy to be corrected. (sorry, that sounded combative - not intended). one of the well-reported side effects of PTSD, when untreated, can be the development of a treatable depression but this is a stand alone clinical entity and requires separate consideration.
anticipatory anxiety is normal - it becomes abnormal when avoidant strategies take over and we do nothing.
suicidal ideation is exactly that - ideation. professionals will and should explore it. however, ideation is not the same as intent or plan and this is what they will want to dig into.
paul
Your posts are very rushed and difficult to understand, so much so they're practically pointless. I think you forget you're addressing normal people here.anticipatory anxiety is normal - it becomes abnormal when avoidant strategies take over and we do nothing.
suicidal ideation is exactly that - ideation. professionals will and should explore it. however, ideation is not the same as intent or plan and this is what they will want to dig into.
paul
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 20th January 00:28
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 20th January 00:35
Ideation
PTSD
DSM
ICD
Wtf?
I'm sure there is lots of useful information in there, you just can't convey it in an understandable manner.
paulmakin said:
the symptoms of PTSD and a Major Depressive Episode are very much distinguishable and there are significant implications for treatment in each case. Check with DSM or ICD if you feel differently, always happy to be corrected. (sorry, that sounded combative - not intended). one of the well-reported side effects of PTSD, when untreated, can be the development of a treatable depression but this is a stand alone clinical entity and requires separate consideration.
anticipatory anxiety is normal - it becomes abnormal when avoidant strategies take over and we do nothing.
suicidal ideation is exactly that - ideation. professionals will and should explore it. however, ideation is not the same as intent or plan and this is what they will want to dig into.
paul
I went to see a psychiatrist to see if I was capable to giving evidence, or rather understanding the oath.anticipatory anxiety is normal - it becomes abnormal when avoidant strategies take over and we do nothing.
suicidal ideation is exactly that - ideation. professionals will and should explore it. however, ideation is not the same as intent or plan and this is what they will want to dig into.
paul
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 20th January 00:28
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 20th January 00:35
During the initial chat he said I had clinical depression. I corrected him and told him that I had been diagnosed by two different brain doctors as suffering from PTSD. We then chatted about the various symptoms.
He was of the opinion that labels are convenient but in practice rather pointless. Symptoms were the thing and someone suffering from what is diagnosed at PTSD can display symptoms of clinical depression, and vice versa. He reckoned that he'd support either diagnosis for me but would be unable to justify why he had picked one over the other.
'Labels are handy for those who are writing with the hope of being published. For those working with patients, they are a nothing more than a handy hook to hang things on.'
When writing the report he asked which illness I would prefer. I actually laughed with enjoyment, the first time I'd done that for some time.
Derek Smith said:
My psychologist was very helpful in the matter. I won't go into what he said, or the methods he used, but I can see now why he said what he did.
I've been reading your posts for years Derek, I'm sure that I am not alone in stating I would really appreciate a bit of insight into what went on.Thanks
227bhp said:
Your posts are very rushed and difficult to understand, so much so they're practically pointless. I think you forget you're addressing normal people here.
Ideation
PTSD
DSM
ICD
Wtf?
I'm sure there is lots of useful information in there, you just can't convey it in an understandable manner.
Sucidial ideation - suicidal thoughts without the wish to go through with itIdeation
PTSD
DSM
ICD
Wtf?
I'm sure there is lots of useful information in there, you just can't convey it in an understandable manner.
PTSD - post traumatic stress disorder - a problem of processing traumatic events such as serious accidents, violence etc, where your brain struggles to reset itself back to standard operating mode
DSM and ICD are diagnostic manuals. The DSM is considered the global (?) standard for symptom checklists - if you meet x many of them then you can be diagnosed with y disorder. It's quite rigid/prescriptive and often used as a useful guideline rather than being the absolute last word.
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