Depression

[tonyvid]

andy-xr said:

Whether you can still do whatever it is you want to do on your own, for yourself

Just extracting that little gem for a minute - I have no idea what I want to do at this minute. If I try to visualise doing something there seems nothing there, just a blank as everything I did outside of work was based around her and the kids.

At work, I'm an excellent employee - I never fail to deliver, creative, hardworking blah blah but away from work and away from her I feel totally immobilised. Little steps, I know, make a cuppa: tick, cook the dinner: tick etc but apart from basic living its a complete blank I've forced myself down the pub at the weekend to have some company and interaction but inside I'm screaming to go back home...and I currently hate it there!

FFS

[andy-xr]

Ah, The Fog? I think when you get insular in a relationship it's really easy to forget what you actually like doing, because there's lots of compromise and lots of doing stuff together that you wouldnt do on your own

Maybe the answer is corned beef hash and a netflix binge. I did it last night and fking loved it. I invested in some Me Time, nowt wrong with that.

If I may.....Get off your But.

'But' is complete self sabotage. So's 'If' because it adds conditions that are often well outside what you can realistically influence your thoughts, feelings and emotions on

IE - I'll go to the pub but I'd only enjoy it if someone strikes up a conversation with me or if there's a bit of a laugh
Or, I could go to the gym, but others might look at me funny because I've not been to a gym in years

In a very off the cuff reply kind of way. I dont think it matters if it's big things or small things, if you're headed in the direction of what makes you happy/better/more amenable then that's a good thing.

[tonyvid]

Thanks Andy, you make a huge amount of sense. I rarely watch films on my own(for some reason), last night I just flopped and watched the X-Files movie from end to end and stuff the late night and that was a good change rather than channel hopping when I can't concentrate.

Your observation about the good necklace is very apt - I was wide awake at 04:30 this morning with a head full of worry. I have some of the Andrew Johnson relax/sleep apps on my phone and it was telling me to find that totally relaxing scene from the past to anchor to and to build upon. Every single scene I could think of had my partner right next to me - so you are bang on with the necklace and just WTF do I about it... I know I have to live life for my own gratification but I think I have always done this A sunset is beautiful, so much more beautiful when shared which is why we don't stop and watch them on our own.

For others, the Andrew Johnson apps are very good in my view - they are a guided relaxation and meditation and I have found them really useful over the past year - give them a try.

To the guy with the increased anxiety, try the lavender plugins from Boots - not a horrible Glade stink but the proper lavender oil pads and heat plug. It really can make a difference. I must find mine.... Those ceramic rings that you drop oil on and place on a lamp are also good but don't work with stupid low energy bulbs

[227bhp]

^^ The Black Dog walks at night.

[227bhp]

tonyvid said:

Sorry for not replying straight away, I am reading it all and taking it in. My head is so rammed with all this emotion I can't think straight enought to answer properly

227bhp said:

A bit of the story seems to have gone missing as you don't say who 'she' is....
It seems to me that you have identified what you need to do and where you are going wrong, but not actually doing anything about it, whilst ever you do the same things over and over again, the outcomes will remain the same.

"She" is my partner of 6 years who told me she didn't want to carry on the way we were etc and then just left. We have been in contact, daily, but only via Whatsap and I am starting to dread that ping as it's rarely something in my favour(neutral, not really responding or another let down). We were supposed to be meeting today but it's not happened and now I'm waiting again for her to say when we can. I'm not prepared to let it go as I think we have a chance if only we can start talking properly again. I might be delusional, she might not be able to say to me that it's completely finished but this constant state of purgatory is just bloody awful.

In terms of knowing what I need to do to make it better for ME long term, I do know that but I guess we are all guilty of living the happy bit when we are actually happy and ignoring the things that can wound us from past experience and knowledge. Only a fool doesn't learn from their mistakes...or people who are so busy and also happy they can forget the hurt as they think it will all be ok if they don't think it might not be again. Head-Sand...

Sorry for my slightly direct reply, when I couldn't understand what/who you were talking about I had flicked back a few pages and found this:

tonyvid said:

I will see what happens over the next few weeks - we do have a company funded counselling service so I will look into that as, one way or the other, I cannot carry on like this now or everytime

Which is mainly what I was referring to, but forgot to mention Did you give it a go? I guess I'm slightly envious that you have this facility as I don't, the NHS waiting list near me was about 18 months last time I enquired and from what I've heard the councillors aren't much good anyhow, CBT was useless - It was done by doing an online course and the medication wasn't really helping, just flatlining me. In the end I had to pay for my own counselling which as part of the problem was working long hours and still being skint and worried worked against that in a way. I was taking time out from work (self employed) so losing money and then paying more for the privilege of making myself better from some of what was making me that way in the first place....

You're certainly right about the purgatory of the situation being the killer, the not knowing one way or the other winds me up no end, but it does push me and in turn them to make a decision one way or the other to end the misery of being held in no-man's land. Yes the outcome may not be what I wanted, but for me at least any outcome was better than none and at least then I could get on with rebuilding my life.
I'm not so far behind you in years and have been through many relationships (only just started another recently and hope it's the last!) so can understand and attest that if it doesn't work out for you there is plenty more life to be had and even at our age there is still lots of learning to be done and that the next relationship can be better than the last because of what I learned previously (lol, i'm probably a slow learner, but it's said that men don't mature properly until in their early forties).
Whilst there is less now on the market than there was, there is still plenty about and if you've learned over the years then you'll be in a much better position to take advantage of it. I hope it works out between you and her, but if it doesn't then it's not so bad eventually.

[tonyvid]

Before I kick off the process at work I'm waiting to see what happens as it will determine what I would like the help with... After my partner(and I want to still call her that) cancelled the plan for last Wednesday she said we'll go for this Wednesday unless she could get a sitter for her boys for a few hours before then. That gave me some hope that we could meet this weekend but I'm sure you can guess what happened - or didn't. In fairness to her, she is trying to get a good few hours clear for us to meet. I do find the hope/dashed hope really difficult to deal with. So onto Wednesday then... She has booked the boys into after-school care that day so we have all afternoon hopefully, fingers crossed....

I've had some counselling over the last 7years - initially in 2007 through my GP services for the 6 sessions they fund. I then continued privately with the same therapist for a year or so. It did help me with the divorce and some of the ways I approach things. It all came to a natural end about the same time I met my partner so all was good Last summer I went off sick with stress and some other bits, was referred again by the GP but couldn't use their service as the counsellor is a semi-friend and it wasn't deemed appropriate. I was referred to funded sessions with MIND but it took almost 6months and didn't really achieve much as I was out of the crisis by then.

My employer has a company on call for these services but you can only use the 6sessions once a year so I'm biding my time for now!!

I find the weekends grim at the moment, they were previously all spent with my partner & kids or just us every other weekend and it's a massive void to fill even when I try to keep busy. Feeling st.

[jogger1976]

Going to counselling (funded via company) on Wedenesday evening.

Not really sure how it will go TBH as I haven't really had much chance to think about it due to working loads of overtime at work.

Hopefully won't be too awkward or weird?

[ben5575]

Opara said:

I feel like I never had a fair attempt at the year and now I could have to repeat it with my marks capped at 40% , has anyone dealt with anything like this who could offer me advice?

I'm currently taking beta blockers and started counselling and feel I could give it my best shot If I were given the chance. Up until January I was a model student gaining high marks.

My anxiety and subsequent depression started in the september following resits (and failing!) my first year at Uni. There are some very wise words on here and congratulations for actually talking about it both here and more importantly with a doctor.

I'm 40 now and despite essentially losing my 20's to it, I've never relapsed, despite redundancy and other life stresses. Ha, I've just realised that I still can't quite write that I've beaten it though. Perhaps I'm still a little superstitious afteral .

I am a very logical person and my big problem with anxiety and depression was that it appeared to be completely irrational to me. Clearly circumstances can have a massive impact like the examples cited above but for me it was this irrationality of the symptoms and loss of control of essentially my mind and emotions that led to the spiralling etc.

I shan't recount my experience here as I found the worst thing that I could ever do was to hear or read about other people's as they quickly became mine own

I have reflected on my experience ad infinitum as you tend to, but now with a 10+ years under my belt it feels so far away and I mainly feel sad that I missed out on my carefree 20's. That said and without being melodramatic about it, I am still here, right now, typing this post and there's a lot to be said for that

So if you'll permit me three top tips for 'dealing with it' which are heavily caveated on the basis that everybody is different and I was never medicated because it never crossed my mind to see a doctor even when I hadn't left the house for three months, on the off chance he told me I had a problem...!:

Live in the now. All very mindfulness I know, but I mean in the live in the absolute moment. Find something that completely focuses your mind on the task in hand. Lots of people use the gym. Lifting and pushing (punishing?) yourself seems quite popular, but there's still time to think there, much like a bike ride. For me it was kickboxing. The absolute focus on a particular technique or even better, getting into the ring to spar with somebody was amazing for me. Nothing quite like somebody hitting you in the face to keep you in the moment I can assure you . The release that such an activity provides from the permanent and incessant introspection and numbness should not be underestimated. Beyond anything it proves that you can actually break out of the cycle. It may only be for an hour, but it can be done. If it can be done, then there is hope. If there is hope, then you are moving in the right direction.

Fight or Flight. You have anxiety, so you'll know all about this. It's a natural reflex, that's why you get anxious, blah blah blah. Simply knowing about this physical response never actually helped me. It wasn't until I recently read a book called 'Fear' by Geoff Thompson (a remarkable BAFTA award winning man who happens to be involved with the particular kickboxing I do) that it finally clicked. He explained quite simply that back in the dinosaur age, your fight or flight was honed to respond to an actual situation. At least if you were confronted by a sabre toothed tiger, you had the chance to fight or flight. Nowadays, you still have this absolutely perfectly natural reaction but there is no outlet. You don't get to fight the sabre toothed tiger nor run away from it, so there is no release from it, no outlet for all of the adrenalin. I'm not sure I'm recommending sprinting around the block a couple of times when you get anxious (or maybe I am?!), but understanding why this natural response then turns into a permanent mental and physical state would have been a massive help to my 'man logic' brain at the time. It's not the fight or flight itself, it's the lack of outlet for it. That's why you'll panic attack in a trigger situation. It's not actually the trigger situation at all, it's the pent up anxiety from last week or yesterday.

Finally, a very simple one. If you happen to find yourself in a situation, place or a moment where you actually feel good, no matter how fleeting, take a mental snapshot of it. When you aren't feeling so good, have a think about that moment, recall the image you photographed in your mind, and remember that there are real moments when you don't feel like you do for the other 99.99% of the time. Again, anything that provide hope that it isn't forever should be grasped.

Ach, that's an awful lot of rambling to strangers on a car forum, but maybe there might be something of use in it for somebody somewhere . Be strong, talk to people and take care.

[tonyvid]

I'll thank you, that's a good ramble

[drivin_me_nuts]

One of those little things I learned on my journey through grief was that living in the moment actually became an incredibly powerful thing to do. After a while of feeling utterly lost to grief and feeling a terrible sense of nothing, I forced myself to stop being afraid of it. That I mean by that is that over a period of months I learned to acknowledge my feelings and thoughts, including the at first crippling realisation of the extent of my loss.

It's something that I found very challenging to do, but the day I began to accept that the fear and anxiety I felt and the nightmares I relived were something that I could regain control over, was a day that changed me. It was fight and flight mixed up. Part flight from my loss and part fight, against her dying.

I have come to think of late, that acceptance of events is very much a the two sides of the brain - that which is logical and that which is emotional, finding a middle ground to agree upon. For me, it was the logic of working out how to live again, single after 22 years, vs. The emotional pain of not wanting to. The battle I had within myself took many months to resolve, and the conflict was depression.

[happychap]

drivin_me_nuts said:

One of those little things I learned on my journey through grief was that living in the moment actually became an incredibly powerful thing to do. After a while of feeling utterly lost to grief and feeling a terrible sense of nothing, I forced myself to stop being afraid of it. That I mean by that is that over a period of months I learned to acknowledge my feelings and thoughts, including the at first crippling realisation of the extent of my loss.

It's something that I found very challenging to do, but the day I began to accept that the fear and anxiety I felt and the nightmares I relived were something that I could regain control over, was a day that changed me. It was fight and flight mixed up. Part flight from my loss and part fight, against her dying.

I have come to think of late, that acceptance of events is very much a the two sides of the brain - that which is logical and that which is emotional, finding a middle ground to agree upon. For me, it was the logic of working out how to live again, single after 22 years, vs. The emotional pain of not wanting to. The battle I had within myself took many months to resolve, and the conflict was depression.

Out of interest, when you made this decision to face your fear, did you do this with support of another or counselling or just your own recourses. Also how long after your loss did it take before you decided to face your grief and change the way you managed it.

[drivin_me_nuts]

happychap said:

Out of interest, when you made this decision to face your fear, did you do this with support of another or counselling or just your own recourses. Also how long after your loss did it take before you decided to face your grief and change the way you managed it.

It took me about eight months to realise that the way I was living my life was actually damaging me. More than anything else, it was my bathroom scales that became the trigger for wanting to change, with my sense of physical unhealthiness a close second. I was tired all the time and eating utter crap and I hated the fact that my clothes no longer fitted.

It was the first anniversary that really was the defining point and a conversation I had with my sister. In was simple enough, but looking back, I think that part of me was looking for an external signal that it was 'ok' to start moving life forwards. In a very real sense it something that I was unable to give myself, as it was tied up with huge emotions around 'forgetting her'. It was extremely tough and made worse by certain other people who had made my lass's death their own crisis. Their words stuck and made it very hard and left me with many circular thoughts coupled with seemingly unsolvable and constant anger.

The week of first anniversary of her death I bought some running shoes and started very tentatively to first walk, then jog. I did the NHS couch to 5k which for me was a big deal and then, when my clothes started to fit again, I started to feel a bit more like me and less out of control of my life. It was an important first step. But the biggest part was still to be processed. My wife's cancer journey was awful beyond words and every day from two months after diagnosis was utter hell and all I could do was try and process what was happening to her 'in the now'. I have written about it elsewhere on PH and PH helped saved my sanity and was generous beyond any words - and all that helped to be the positives I held on to in the months that followed her death.

I went to a few counselling sessions and in part I found them useful in offering an alternative view but they left me very unfulfilled and unresolved.

What really did it for me was quite literally waking up one day angry. Really angry. Angrier than I have ever been. But not with loss, not with thoughts of my lass's cancer of any of what had happened, but angry with the realisation that she would not have wanted me to live the way I was living. It took about 15 months to reach that day and it's a point I had to get to myself. Drug rehab often talks about 'it can't get any lower'. For me, it was 'I can't get any angrier' with myself and what I was doing and who I had become.

What followed was very much a day by day breaking down of things that made me angry and replacing them with things that made me feel positive. I bought a cycle (that I battled with using for a long time) and ran more and did more to interact with others. I had cut myself off from me - not from the world, because to the outside world I was still a functioning adult, albeit a very sad looking one. I started to connect with my anger. In my first year I had cried so much in grief and was so lonely in my grief, but I learned to accept that to - that loneliness is part of the human condition and it's how we deal with loneliness that makes the difference to the life we live.

As I write this, I can think of at least two other Phers who have lost their long term loved ones over the last year or so and I think that if they were to read this, they could relate to that word loneliness more than any other. It is a word that requires a huge amount of effort to first manage and then process. It is frightening and disabling place to be.

Today, I think I have found more of a balance between life. My life has very much moved forwards. I can look back at a place that was dark and very sad.

It has been an incredibly hard journey at times and one that I would not wish upon another human being, yet many of us experience it. I took comfort in the worst of it that I was not alone. PH helped immensely, friends helped in more ways than they will ever understand, but my lass helped the most. I think I was very lucky to have shared my life with a woman who instilled in me a burning light for living. Even in the worst of it, I never wanted to die, or end my life. I knew that things would change, would be different and that days had to be endured to get to the 'better days'. I knew that and that, even beyond her death was my southern light that kept me moving towards the sun and warmth - the warmth of living and loving and being connected to life again - and you don't have to be going through bereavement to relate to that.

At times depression needs a southern light. A light that we can look to hold our path back to warmth when all around us falls and crumbles away.

For me, in worst hours I made that light as real as I could. Even when I felt utterly wretched, I could see it and feel it. I call it love, but it isn't just for my lass. It's was the love for me and what I meant in the lives of those I am part of. It was the love of myself and my life and all I hold dear, all my dreams and thoughts and all the parts of me that are me.

The answer to your question 'how long after your loss did it take before you decided to face your grief and change the way you managed it.' has this response,

When I truly gave myself permission to live and love again.

I got married last week. My lass will be gone five years this January but now I have someone else to share my life with and means I can also share those parts of me that were dormant for a long time. Perhaps, in some respects, it is the biggest part of moving life forwards in that I have learned to balance death and life - and I am still learning as it's something you never stop studying as loss is rarely a closed chapter.

I came out of my depression a different person. It changed me in certain obvious, but also subtle ways. It takes a long time to grow back the tree that is a man to the place it was when events hack at the trunk of it. I remembered the shape, I grew that back. Now, the trick with life, is to put the effort into growing on the individual twigs and leaves that make the tree complete.

[happychap]

drivin_me_nuts said:

It took me about eight months to realise that the way I was living my life was actually damaging me. More than anything else, it was my bathroom scales that became the trigger for wanting to change, with my sense of physical unhealthiness a close second. I was tired all the time and eating utter crap and I hated the fact that my clothes no longer fitted.

It was the first anniversary that really was the defining point and a conversation I had with my sister. In was simple enough, but looking back, I think that part of me was looking for an external signal that it was 'ok' to start moving life forwards. In a very real sense it something that I was unable to give myself, as it was tied up with huge emotions around 'forgetting her'. It was extremely tough and made worse by certain other people who had made my lass's death their own crisis. Their words stuck and made it very hard and left me with many circular thoughts coupled with seemingly unsolvable and constant anger.

The week of first anniversary of her death I bought some running shoes and started very tentatively to first walk, then jog. I did the NHS couch to 5k which for me was a big deal and then, when my clothes started to fit again, I started to feel a bit more like me and less out of control of my life. It was an important first step. But the biggest part was still to be processed. My wife's cancer journey was awful beyond words and every day from two months after diagnosis was utter hell and all I could do was try and process what was happening to her 'in the now'. I have written about it elsewhere on PH and PH helped saved my sanity and was generous beyond any words - and all that helped to be the positives I held on to in the months that followed her death.

I went to a few counselling sessions and in part I found them useful in offering an alternative view but they left me very unfulfilled and unresolved.

What really did it for me was quite literally waking up one day angry. Really angry. Angrier than I have ever been. But not with loss, not with thoughts of my lass's cancer of any of what had happened, but angry with the realisation that she would not have wanted me to live the way I was living. It took about 15 months to reach that day and it's a point I had to get to myself. Drug rehab often talks about 'it can't get any lower'. For me, it was 'I can't get any angrier' with myself and what I was doing and who I had become.

What followed was very much a day by day breaking down of things that made me angry and replacing them with things that made me feel positive. I bought a cycle (that I battled with using for a long time) and ran more and did more to interact with others. I had cut myself off from me - not from the world, because to the outside world I was still a functioning adult, albeit a very sad looking one. I started to connect with my anger. In my first year I had cried so much in grief and was so lonely in my grief, but I learned to accept that to - that loneliness is part of the human condition and it's how we deal with loneliness that makes the difference to the life we live.

As I write this, I can think of at least two other Phers who have lost their long term loved ones over the last year or so and I think that if they were to read this, they could relate to that word loneliness more than any other. It is a word that requires a huge amount of effort to first manage and then process. It is frightening and disabling place to be.

Today, I think I have found more of a balance between life. My life has very much moved forwards. I can look back at a place that was dark and very sad.

It has been an incredibly hard journey at times and one that I would not wish upon another human being, yet many of us experience it. I took comfort in the worst of it that I was not alone. PH helped immensely, friends helped in more ways than they will ever understand, but my lass helped the most. I think I was very lucky to have shared my life with a woman who instilled in me a burning light for living. Even in the worst of it, I never wanted to die, or end my life. I knew that things would change, would be different and that days had to be endured to get to the 'better days'. I knew that and that, even beyond her death was my southern light that kept me moving towards the sun and warmth - the warmth of living and loving and being connected to life again - and you don't have to be going through bereavement to relate to that.

At times depression needs a southern light. A light that we can look to hold our path back to warmth when all around us falls and crumbles away.

For me, in worst hours I made that light as real as I could. Even when I felt utterly wretched, I could see it and feel it. I call it love, but it isn't just for my lass. It's was the love for me and what I meant in the lives of those I am part of. It was the love of myself and my life and all I hold dear, all my dreams and thoughts and all the parts of me that are me.

The answer to your question 'how long after your loss did it take before you decided to face your grief and change the way you managed it.' has this response,

When I truly gave myself permission to live and love again.

I got married last week. My lass will be gone five years this January but now I have someone else to share my life with and means I can also share those parts of me that were dormant for a long time. Perhaps, in some respects, it is the biggest part of moving life forwards in that I have learned to balance death and life - and I am still learning as it's something you never stop studying as loss is rarely a closed chapter.

I came out of my depression a different person. It changed me in certain obvious, but also subtle ways. It takes a long time to grow back the tree that is a man to the place it was when events hack at the trunk of it. I remembered the shape, I grew that back. Now, the trick with life, is to put the effort into growing on the individual twigs and leaves that make the tree complete.

Thank you for taking the time to share your personal experience and journey to a better place. Congratulations on your wedding. I have read your previous thread all be it following your wife's passing. I guess it's down to how you want to move on and become unstuck from grief and depression which you found a way to do this. I guess at some level it comes down to the individual and there circumstances that will decide if they want to move on, in some cases they would have to be supported to do this but also look at what they would have to give up as in some ways we can end up being defined by our illness, and become dependent on living this way.

[jogger1976]

Well, I've had the first counseling session this evening. It's amazing how much you can discuss in 50 minutes.
We covered my current job stress, dysfunctional family and friends and past depression and many other things.
I very nearly lost it about five minutes in, but managed to compose myself.Perhaps I should've just let it all flow out?

On-wards and upwards. Strangely, I'm quite looking forward to next week.

[happychap]

jogger1976 said:

Well, I've had the first counseling session this evening. It's amazing how much you can discuss in 50 minutes.
We covered my current job stress, dysfunctional family and friends and past depression and many other things.
I very nearly lost it about five minutes in, but managed to compose myself.Perhaps I should've just let it all flow out?

On-wards and upwards. Strangely, I'm quite looking forward to next week.

Good to hear you found it useful. Sounds like your ready to undertake the work that can make a difference in how you view and deal with issues that are causing you some distress. I can't think of a better place to lose it, good luck with the following sessions.

[tonyvid]

drivin_me_nuts said:

I got married last week. My lass will be gone five years this January but now I have someone else to share my life with and means I can also share those parts of me that were dormant for a long time. Perhaps, in some respects, it is the biggest part of moving life forwards in that I have learned to balance death and life - and I am still learning as it's something you never stop studying as loss is rarely a closed chapter.

I came out of my depression a different person. It changed me in certain obvious, but also subtle ways. It takes a long time to grow back the tree that is a man to the place it was when events hack at the trunk of it. I remembered the shape, I grew that back. Now, the trick with life, is to put the effort into growing on the individual twigs and leaves that make the tree complete.

I'm so pleased to hear that news, and its an inspiration for the rest of us that there quite literally is life after death. I wish you both all the very best for a long and very happy life together

[Foppo]

You said you nearly lost it about five minutes in.Nothing wrong with that it helps to clear your mind men are allowed to cry.

After my cancer operation and the uncertainty what comes with it I was in a bad place.I got help and a great nurse got me back on track.It takes time we are all different.Good luck.

[tonyvid]

tonyvid said:

So onto Wednesday then... She has booked the boys into after-school care that day so we have all afternoon hopefully, fingers crossed....

Just a quick update on this and because I feel the need to empty my head a little...

We did meet yesterday for a good 3hrs, had a number of cuppas, a buttie and a nice walk together. Then we got to the "us" bit. I'm not going to go into all of it as it's not really appropriate or conducive but I'm still in limbo. Lots came up, and we were really honest about things which was good. She said she was really glad we met and I felt a bit more positive about things last night, but....

Today I feel absolutely down in the dumps for every positive feeling about yesterday there seem to be 2 or 3 real negative ones that are overwhelming me today. I wrote a fair bit to her last night about my thoughts and had one of the nicest warmest "goodnight" messages for a long time so I should be feeling happier... But(Andy-xr sighs with frustration!) there were one or two non committal things and stumbling blocks that are dominating my thoughts and giving me no hope.

It's less than 24hrs since we met and I know these are big issues that need careful consideration on her side before she can consider me back as a partner. I know I can't and mustn't push her as it will just force her to run. I know blah blah blah and it's not helping me as my bloody brain just will not stop

I went to bed feeling reasonably content, woke at 5 feeling full of panic and have not stopped feeling that way since. Working at home today doesn't help things as no distractions and I'm really struggling to do any work even though I've got a really important video progress meeting in the morning. GAH!!!

[andy-xr]

tonyvid said:

Just a quick update on this and because I feel the need to empty my head a little...

We did meet yesterday for a good 3hrs, had a number of cuppas, a buttie and a nice walk together. Then we got to the "us" bit. I'm not going to go into all of it as it's not really appropriate or conducive but I'm still in limbo. Lots came up, and we were really honest about things which was good. She said she was really glad we met and I felt a bit more positive about things last night, but....

Today I feel absolutely down in the dumps for every positive feeling about yesterday there seem to be 2 or 3 real negative ones that are overwhelming me today. I wrote a fair bit to her last night about my thoughts and had one of the nicest warmest "goodnight" messages for a long time so I should be feeling happier... But(Andy-xr sighs with frustration!) there were one or two non committal things and stumbling blocks that are dominating my thoughts and giving me no hope.

It's less than 24hrs since we met and I know these are big issues that need careful consideration on her side before she can consider me back as a partner. I know I can't and mustn't push her as it will just force her to run. I know blah blah blah and it's not helping me as my bloody brain just will not stop

I went to bed feeling reasonably content, woke at 5 feeling full of panic and have not stopped feeling that way since. Working at home today doesn't help things as no distractions and I'm really struggling to do any work even though I've got a really important video progress meeting in the morning. GAH!!!

But this is good, Tony.

It sounds like you've each got to a point where you can be open about your commitment or non commitment to each other.

Remember this, on another thread? You were angry and a bit woeful at the same time, it was a 'fk you all, then you'll see....' There's been progress since then!

andy-xr said:

tonyvid said:

Well, I ticked all those boxes, it's all the others that they seem to want(but only for a while). I think the 7 year itch and the sheer routine of life that most of us have adapted to using(because sometimes it's the only way stuff can work) are the killers.

Mine hasn't gone off looking for someone else, she just couldn't see the future changing much and appears to be looking to change hers. Unfortunately, being a single mum, I think it will now be a damn sight harder for them all without me. There were other factors like 30miles between our homes which made moving for either of us difficult over the past few years and at this time(schools, my work etc) but things were being put in place to enable us to move in together. We still had a really close relationship and tons of contact everyday when we weren't actually together, we made a lot of effort to close that distance and it worked.

I'm absolutely gutted by it, I just don't know what I could've done to stop the creeping "is this it" that was going on recently. I know, move on and up etc but I had invested a huge part of me to just be caught by this again. Pah

Keep the views coming, I could do with a laugh!!

So, objectively

Together for 6 years
There's 30 miles distance between you
Neither of you would move in together
She's got kids from a past relationship
She's hit 40 and decided it's time for a change

I hate to be the one to tell you, but at that age, it's probably her doing a 'now or never' She's not getting any younger, and is there a realistic possibility of spending the next 10/20/30 years having a distanced relationship with someone who's not there every day and probably isnt as integrated into 'life' as she wants it?

I think you should ask yourself, is that right for you? You've got needs as well, what do you want and need out of a relationship? I think it sounds more of a situational problem she has rather than the 'you're an idiot, I'm leaving' kind. You seem to want her to need you, but she might not. What do you need?

You might be the sort of person who likes and needs their own space, so not being in someone elses pockets daily works for you. Living together and picking one spot you all live in may uproot kids, their friends, your friends, her friends....You might think, actually, I really want to quit this job, find something else, get rid of that distance issue and see what happens. But it sounds like that doesnt work for her and the kids.

It also sounds like neither of you have really really committed to this, you've just tried to make it work best you can, but without any big meaty compromises that couldashouldawoulda been made. That's just a fairly off the cuff comment though from reading a few lines you've stuck on the internet. You'll know more I suspect

Yesterday, you were talking about what you each want from life and each other, right?

What do you want? And if it's 'for her to love me' then let me come and kick you in the knackers, because you're hanging everything on what someone else does, not what you do.

Que sera sera, in it's most basic meaning. You cant force someone to love you, you can only love them and its either reciprocal or it's unrequited.

Are you going out looking for her tipping point so you know where you stand? Because that would prove you right whichever side of the fence you decided to sit on, because you're saying you're in limbo.

Or would you be open to doing your thing, and if it happens to be that you get back together, based on merit rather than overbearing influence, would that be OK?

[tonyvid]

Oh God, that all makes my bloody head spin let me think about all that for a bit.

Thank you for highlighting all those points and your continueing involvement in my mess, it really does help me try to make sense of such a confusing situation.