Minimalist running.
Discussion
princeperch said:
Anyway I used to get injuries every now and again when I was building up my mileage and have been dipping In and out of minimalist running the past couple of weeks. I have a pair of New Balance 1010 Minimus Running Shoes and when I wear them they feel fantastic and I run really well In them. Thing is I have only run in them on grade thus far I'm a bit concerned about using them on my commute as that's basically all Tarmac.
Speaking as a runner from the opposite end of the spectrum i.e. I'm a crap runner and am currently staggering through week 2 of C25K, I'm getting shin splints running on tarmac in my NB 1010 Minimus trails, unfortunately the possible trails near me are mud pits at the mo' so I'd risk more injury on them than tarmac. So that probably doesn't help you much as you no doubt have stronger shins then me to start with but might be worth looking for a more padded minimalist (yeah that makes sense 
) shoe, I'm looking at Nike Free and the Puma Faas 300. As a novice though it's all a bit confusing and a pot shot.Cheer,
Rob
There are 2 different things here.
Minimalist/Barefoot shoes - very thin, designed to provide little more than a durable sole for the foot.
Zero-drop and low-drop shoes - these are essentially flat, so the heel is the same height above the sole as the toe ("drop" being the difference in heel height and toe height). The can still have decent cushioning but work the calf and foot harder than "traditional" shoes.
Obviously the barefoot shoes are also zero-drop but not all zero/low-drop shoes are minimalist/barefoot.
Minimalist/Barefoot shoes - very thin, designed to provide little more than a durable sole for the foot.
Zero-drop and low-drop shoes - these are essentially flat, so the heel is the same height above the sole as the toe ("drop" being the difference in heel height and toe height). The can still have decent cushioning but work the calf and foot harder than "traditional" shoes.
Obviously the barefoot shoes are also zero-drop but not all zero/low-drop shoes are minimalist/barefoot.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0098IIY4...
these are the ones I have - not sure what camp they fall into.
I'm just worried I'll trash my feet if I start using them for my commute. Might have to reserve them for the long run only on Sundays. I feel brilliant when I'm running in them and they deffo give me an edge but I have little confidence using them for my commute..
these are the ones I have - not sure what camp they fall into.
I'm just worried I'll trash my feet if I start using them for my commute. Might have to reserve them for the long run only on Sundays. I feel brilliant when I'm running in them and they deffo give me an edge but I have little confidence using them for my commute..
Well I've got hold of a new pair of shoes, was going for the Faas 300 but then a minor detour found me at Merrell looking at their Bare Access 2, zero drop but with 8mm Vibram sole for a bit more cushioning. Also conveniently on sale on their site so I bagged a pair for £37.50:
http://www.merrell.com/UK/en-GB/Product.mvc.aspx/3...
Just had my first stagger in them, being a useless runner I can't really offer a very helpful review. My shins are still twinging but I think that's more of a still recovering issue rather than newly inflicted. The shoes are comfy though, decent sized toe box and cool to run in so I'll keep soldiering on.
Cheers,
Rob
http://www.merrell.com/UK/en-GB/Product.mvc.aspx/3...
Just had my first stagger in them, being a useless runner I can't really offer a very helpful review. My shins are still twinging but I think that's more of a still recovering issue rather than newly inflicted. The shoes are comfy though, decent sized toe box and cool to run in so I'll keep soldiering on.
Cheers,
Rob
Having spent the past 15 years running, becoming injured, resting for months/years, running, injured...
A year on from attempting to run with a non-heel striking style in lower drop shoes I've found that I prefer running in this way and my knees, hips and ankles have thanked me for it
...but I've suffered many different variations on the calf strain, in both legs and managed to run less than 150 miles.
I'm currently off running due to a medial collateral ligament injury that doesn't seem to be abating.
A year on from attempting to run with a non-heel striking style in lower drop shoes I've found that I prefer running in this way and my knees, hips and ankles have thanked me for it
...but I've suffered many different variations on the calf strain, in both legs and managed to run less than 150 miles.
I'm currently off running due to a medial collateral ligament injury that doesn't seem to be abating.
Good article here on separating the hype from the science following the Vibram settlement: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2014/05/vibram-law...
Edited by ewenm on Monday 19th May 14:17
ewenm said:
ewenm said:
Good article here on separating the hype from the science following the Vibram settlement: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2014/05/vibram-law...
I staggered around 5 miles last night, seem to be suffering from midpoint Achilles tendonitis and possibly (very occasional sharp twinge) plantar fasciitis in my right foot only. The left just suffers from blisters. I ended up putting some cheap Aldi gel insoles in as both feet were getting shredded and they made a big difference except both big toe nails are now bruised so I've modified the insoles to give them a bit more room up front.
Thinking it's time to bite the bullet and have my gait checked, maybe I need some arch support in my right foot or something. Not sure if my plans to win the 2015 London Marathon are going to pan out at this stage
Cheers,
Rob
Thinking it's time to bite the bullet and have my gait checked, maybe I need some arch support in my right foot or something. Not sure if my plans to win the 2015 London Marathon are going to pan out at this stage
Cheers,
Rob
Hi all,
Looking for a bit of advice now. The Merrells are aren't cutting it over longer distances now (longer being relative of course) I'm suffering from various ailments from bad blistering, to plantar fasciitis and general knackeredness, so I've not run for a over a week now while things settle down, also reviewing my diet now that I'm roughly down to my target weight.
I've been looking around the net for a different shoe, still going with the zero drop idea but with more padding and decided that the Mizuno Cursoris sounds like a reasonable option. Downside is nowhere around me has any in stock for me to try. I went along to a local place though today who are a Mizuno stockist who can get a pair in for me to try who suggested I tried on some other Mizunos just for sizing, while I was there I had my gait analysed and have come away somewhat confused as a result.
Basics are that I've got normal/very slightly low arches in both feet and slight over-pronated on my left leg when standing still. They stuck my in some neutral Mizunos and off I went on the treadmill. On reviewing the video I seemed to be noticeably over-pronating on my right side, less on the left (compared to the static test). The suggestion was that I tried some more supportive shoes so they dug a few pairs out and off I went with them. All did seem to help with the pronation but I didn't feel comfortable in any of them as they were big and chunky and had ruddy great heals on them. I also got the first twinges of shin splints in them which I've not had for months now running in the Merrells.
What I'm wondering, now I've had chance to reflect on it, is how valid the gait test was as I was fore/mid-foot striking in shoes designed very much to support a heal strike gait? Don't know the answer to that one.
One thing that they said though that did make sense was that as I increase my distances running fore/mid I may find I expose myself for injury in the latter part of the run as I weaken and my form (ha!) goes meaning I inadvertently heal strike in the less padded shoes. That does make sense but how do you work around that without just getting the miles in?
<tl/dr>
If I'm sticking with a fore/mid strike style, should I pay much attention to the gait analysis results of my running in shoes not designed for that style, and is pronation that much of a worry in fore/mid running compared to heal strike?
Cheers,
Rob
Looking for a bit of advice now. The Merrells are aren't cutting it over longer distances now (longer being relative of course
) I'm suffering from various ailments from bad blistering, to plantar fasciitis and general knackeredness, so I've not run for a over a week now while things settle down, also reviewing my diet now that I'm roughly down to my target weight. I've been looking around the net for a different shoe, still going with the zero drop idea but with more padding and decided that the Mizuno Cursoris sounds like a reasonable option. Downside is nowhere around me has any in stock for me to try. I went along to a local place though today who are a Mizuno stockist who can get a pair in for me to try who suggested I tried on some other Mizunos just for sizing, while I was there I had my gait analysed and have come away somewhat confused as a result.
Basics are that I've got normal/very slightly low arches in both feet and slight over-pronated on my left leg when standing still. They stuck my in some neutral Mizunos and off I went on the treadmill. On reviewing the video I seemed to be noticeably over-pronating on my right side, less on the left (compared to the static test). The suggestion was that I tried some more supportive shoes so they dug a few pairs out and off I went with them. All did seem to help with the pronation but I didn't feel comfortable in any of them as they were big and chunky and had ruddy great heals on them. I also got the first twinges of shin splints in them which I've not had for months now running in the Merrells.
What I'm wondering, now I've had chance to reflect on it, is how valid the gait test was as I was fore/mid-foot striking in shoes designed very much to support a heal strike gait? Don't know the answer to that one.
One thing that they said though that did make sense was that as I increase my distances running fore/mid I may find I expose myself for injury in the latter part of the run as I weaken and my form (ha!) goes meaning I inadvertently heal strike in the less padded shoes. That does make sense but how do you work around that without just getting the miles in?
<tl/dr>
If I'm sticking with a fore/mid strike style, should I pay much attention to the gait analysis results of my running in shoes not designed for that style, and is pronation that much of a worry in fore/mid running compared to heal strike?
Cheers,
Rob
Well it appears the experts have all run for the hills I've ordered the Mizunos for store pick up so if they're just wrong I can get my money back straight away.
I'm probably using the wrong terminology as you're right, pronation should be impossible with a forefoot strike. Not sure what the posh term is though for bowing in the ankles, something to do with stance, but again as the heel shouldn't be touching down it's probably not an issue.
Cheers,
Rob
I've ordered the Mizunos for store pick up so if they're just wrong I can get my money back straight away.I'm probably using the wrong terminology as you're right, pronation should be impossible with a forefoot strike. Not sure what the posh term is though for bowing in the ankles, something to do with stance, but again as the heel shouldn't be touching down it's probably not an issue.
Cheers,
Rob
I read "Born to Run", ditched my orthotics completely, began running with a forefoot strike and used thin-soled low heel drop trainers (and zero drop shoes).
My calf muscles suffered strains and stiffness for a year (why are they so slow to adapt?) and My right MCL gave me trouble. I rested for 2-3 months....
I'm now back using orthotics and using only my slightly more cushioned trainers and using a less pronounced forefoot strike. I'm building up the mileage slowly.
My calf muscles suffered strains and stiffness for a year (why are they so slow to adapt?) and My right MCL gave me trouble. I rested for 2-3 months....
I'm now back using orthotics and using only my slightly more cushioned trainers and using a less pronounced forefoot strike. I'm building up the mileage slowly.
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 3rd June 19:36
I looked into this recently. Against doing this people said 'If you run fine in trainers why change?' and 'How many top athletes do you see running barefoot?' Also, I found it extremely hard to find anywhere that stocked minimalist shoes and when they did they only had a small selection of sizes. In the end I gave up trying.
I was advised to go to barefoot and then to minimalist shoes. Also, to build up very very slowly. In the end it just didn't seem worth the hassle.
I was advised to go to barefoot and then to minimalist shoes. Also, to build up very very slowly. In the end it just didn't seem worth the hassle.
I picked up my Mizunos on Saturday and had my first run for a few weeks yesterday in them. Managed a bit over 4.5 miles based on 4x10 minute runs with 1 minute walk between (following C10k training) admittedly I had a few other unscheduled walks as the old CV side of things suffered a bit
Impressions of the Mizuno vs Merrell, softer sole is more comfortable, upper mesh is much stretchier and they have a much bigger toe box so no risk of black nails. I found the soles of my feet got hot though and suffered some blistering on the ball of my right foot, I think swapping the insoles to some gel jobbies will resolve that. They do look proper daft though being bright orange. I definitely ran with a more effective forefoot strike though as my calves are bloody killing me! I really need to get a roller of some description and cause myself even more pain.
Cheers,
Rob
Impressions of the Mizuno vs Merrell, softer sole is more comfortable, upper mesh is much stretchier and they have a much bigger toe box so no risk of black nails. I found the soles of my feet got hot though and suffered some blistering on the ball of my right foot, I think swapping the insoles to some gel jobbies will resolve that. They do look proper daft though being bright orange. I definitely ran with a more effective forefoot strike though as my calves are bloody killing me! I really need to get a roller of some description and cause myself even more pain.
Cheers,
Rob
Having tried and suffered with the whole thing, I've come to the conclusion that a mid-fore-foot strike with a gentle heel down, in shoes with some fore-foot cushioning and a low, but not necessarily 'ZERO' heel drop is the way to go.
Be aware that calf muscles can take A LOT of acclimatisation -1 year plus, with lots of setbacks, in my case. I'm not sure why this is the case. Any ideas?
Fingers crossed I've gone beyond that now....
Be aware that calf muscles can take A LOT of acclimatisation -1 year plus, with lots of setbacks, in my case. I'm not sure why this is the case. Any ideas?
Fingers crossed I've gone beyond that now....
I'm running 10km 2-3 times a week at present, now in Saucony Kinvara 4 (4mm drop) about two years since I tried running again, forefoot strike this time.
Injury wise,
o no knee and hip pain at all this time 'round
o despite reading lots about ITB and rolling lots, actually no pain there at all
o calves took some time to adjust, still a bit tight and stretching daily. No biggie.
o one twisted ankle (I discovered my poor ankle mobility by hitting a pothole)
o two nasty blisters (gone, along with the callouses & old shoes that caused them)
o a slight sore spot on the ball of my right foot past 7km.
I just need to work on the last one, but I wouldn't go back to heel striking.
Injury wise,
o no knee and hip pain at all this time 'round
o despite reading lots about ITB and rolling lots, actually no pain there at all
o calves took some time to adjust, still a bit tight and stretching daily. No biggie.
o one twisted ankle (I discovered my poor ankle mobility by hitting a pothole)
o two nasty blisters (gone, along with the callouses & old shoes that caused them)
o a slight sore spot on the ball of my right foot past 7km.
I just need to work on the last one, but I wouldn't go back to heel striking.
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