Minimalist running.
Discussion
Tiggsy said:
Good point.
But my zero drops were £100 and fit like a glove, lace up better than anything I've ever worn (the lace system just creates a perfect even fit) and have never given me a blister. They are also tough and provide good grip and protection. I'm unsure if pumps by George would be as good?
But they might be. But my zero drops were £100 and fit like a glove, lace up better than anything I've ever worn (the lace system just creates a perfect even fit) and have never given me a blister. They are also tough and provide good grip and protection. I'm unsure if pumps by George would be as good?
I've spent £70 on climbing shoes which are just a slither of leather and rubber. Sore as hell after 30 minutes. Pumps by George would definitely be more comfortable.
[quote=Hoofy
Are the likes of Nike really taking the piss now?
[/quote]
I think they are, but only because it is a new market and the same happens with any new product sub genre.
The only difference I see between a £100 pair of vibrams and a £5 george special is the durability. No doubt you can do much greater mileage in the vibrams. Don't know about x20 miles though. I have a new pair of converse trainers. Cost me £40, but when they get a bit tatty I'll probably wear them to train.
Are the likes of Nike really taking the piss now?
[/quote]
I think they are, but only because it is a new market and the same happens with any new product sub genre.
The only difference I see between a £100 pair of vibrams and a £5 george special is the durability. No doubt you can do much greater mileage in the vibrams. Don't know about x20 miles though. I have a new pair of converse trainers. Cost me £40, but when they get a bit tatty I'll probably wear them to train.
This is over simplifying it. I run in Merrel Trail gloves and there is no way a £10 show would have the same build quality, durability, fit, design, lace system, etc, etc. When you put something on your foot for an hour of running the little things (that add up to £100) will show through....are the seams in a £10 pump lovely and smooth and out the way or right on your toes and rubbing after 5 mins? Is the material flexible and allowing to toes to spread in the box or poorly designed and doing the opposite.
Minamlist shoes may have less weight than Nike Airs but no less R&D and workmanship.
Minamlist shoes may have less weight than Nike Airs but no less R&D and workmanship.
Tiggsy said:
This is over simplifying it. I run in Merrel Trail gloves and there is no way a £10 show would have the same build quality, durability, fit, design, lace system, etc, etc. When you put something on your foot for an hour of running the little things (that add up to £100) will show through....are the seams in a £10 pump lovely and smooth and out the way or right on your toes and rubbing after 5 mins? Is the material flexible and allowing to toes to spread in the box or poorly designed and doing the opposite.
Minamlist shoes may have less weight than Nike Airs but no less R&D and workmanship.
I see what you say. But what if we compare normal running shoes vs gloves/fingers/flat shoes, and run using the ball rather than the heel in normal "proper" running shoes?Minamlist shoes may have less weight than Nike Airs but no less R&D and workmanship.
I'm nosey because it's how I run when I do run (namely across the road in non-running shoes).
This thread is of great interest to me. I had a full hip replacement in July and have been told to stop running, to minimise wear on the joint and delay the need for a revision of the hip joint. However, I do want to run (I've sort of negotiated with my consultant).
I've been looking at shock absorbing inserts (poron) to protect the hip, but forefoot running (as it was described to me) seems to use the whole lower leg as a shock absorber.
I want to start running again, only about 20k per week and a couple of half marathons a year, and I'm contemplating giving this style a try. Like one of the other posters I tend to tip-toe when walking bare foot anyway.
I guess that trying to change my style while still using my existing shoes won't work so I will need to invest in some other footwear. What are the cheapest shoes that I could feasibly get for trying this style of running?
I've been looking at shock absorbing inserts (poron) to protect the hip, but forefoot running (as it was described to me) seems to use the whole lower leg as a shock absorber.
I want to start running again, only about 20k per week and a couple of half marathons a year, and I'm contemplating giving this style a try. Like one of the other posters I tend to tip-toe when walking bare foot anyway.
I guess that trying to change my style while still using my existing shoes won't work so I will need to invest in some other footwear. What are the cheapest shoes that I could feasibly get for trying this style of running?
I'm no expert but going on what Pacman1 says, I'd get normal running shoes with shock absorption in the off-chance that you might dump your heel down by mistake or land on a raised lump. I was experimenting earlier and ran on the balls of my feet with normal shoes. Jogging and sprinting seemed to work fine. Walking looked like I was mincing with invisible high heels.
The new hip is great. No pain is a wonderful thing after years of having it!
As I only had the job done in July I haven't started rynning yet. Want to get the first post op skiing holiday safely done first.
Yes, I thought about new 'normal' shoes but wonder if the depth/thickness of the heel might get in the way when trying to strike with the other end of the foot.
As I apparently look like a demented giraffe when running the mincing when walking won't cause much more hilarity!
I think that I will venture out for short runs in my existing shoes to see how it goes, maybe trying the treadmill first. I'm also looking at PORON inserts for shock absorption, although can't find anything definitive about them on running sites.
Don't want to hijacked the thread! But thanks :-)
As I only had the job done in July I haven't started rynning yet. Want to get the first post op skiing holiday safely done first.
Yes, I thought about new 'normal' shoes but wonder if the depth/thickness of the heel might get in the way when trying to strike with the other end of the foot.
As I apparently look like a demented giraffe when running the mincing when walking won't cause much more hilarity!
I think that I will venture out for short runs in my existing shoes to see how it goes, maybe trying the treadmill first. I'm also looking at PORON inserts for shock absorption, although can't find anything definitive about them on running sites.
Don't want to hijacked the thread! But thanks :-)
Interesting stuff, I was an Inov8 convert 4-5 years ago and they worked really well for me (x-country/hill/mountain/ultra marathons) - far better than my old shoes which seem like army boots now. I'd wondered about the vibram 'barefoot' thing as this seems to be the next step down the line, I'm happy where I am I think, but open to new ideas.
Anyone else gone from inov8 to 'barefoot' in an offroad scenario - is there much of a difference? (Apart from grip - which seems to be phenominal with the inov8s).
Anyone else gone from inov8 to 'barefoot' in an offroad scenario - is there much of a difference? (Apart from grip - which seems to be phenominal with the inov8s).
Halb said:
Hey Tiggsy, does running in the flats cost you speed? If you were running a competitive race against mates do the flats make you go slower?
Anyone can answer but Tiggsy is closer to my weight.
Yes, I'm slower in my trail gloves than I am in my Asics Gels. However, thats over the short distances I run for fitness - 2 to 6 miles. There are a few reasons for this....at 6ft6 I have a huge stride! and go fast by stretching out my stride length and landing on my heel. This is good for covering a few miles fast but at the end of it my legs are knackered and the next day I'll have shin/knee pain. I can go faster in my trail gloves but the way to do this barefoot style is to up the steps per min rate and get the legs spinning quicker....this has been the most alien part to me. Being big it feels odd to take 180 steps per min which is the suggested rate....however, it is coming together and I am getting quicker all the time. I've no idea if I'd be as quick over a longer distance.....its quite possible that around 8/9 miles my heel strike style would see me struggling (which happened last time I ran a half marathon.....died over the last 5 miles!) while I could happily plod all day in my gloves (I am doing Reading half in April so I'll see)Anyone can answer but Tiggsy is closer to my weight.
In summary, I'll happily take the reduction in speed (if thats permanent) over the improvements in pain.....but then for me running is a means to fitness for health and my sport (bball)....If I was a "runner" I can see that I may be happier to be in pain and go quicker! (I know playing ball leaves me feeling like I've been hit by a truck and I just write that off as "part of the sport" !)
For those thinking cushioning is better than barefoot....here's how I explain it. Have an adult stand up and drop from standing to a press up position....so they land on their hands. What they will do is land on their fingers and use their hand/wrist/forearms to let the "heel" of their palm touch down. Now suggest they do the same but land on the heel of their palm, fingers out the way.....they'd be in huge pain as the shock goes straight into the wrist/elbow/shoulder. Now ask if they do it with 1cm of rubber to "cushion" that shock and they still much rather land on their fingers. A tiny bit of rubber just cant absorb enough of the shock.......now imagine the HUGE weight involved when a heel hits down...... the pressure per inch is gigantic, and repeated thousands of times a run.
First foray into running since the hip replacement. Only on the treadmill though. Anyway, 10 minutes after 40 on the cross trainer, and my calves were killing me!
Really different effect to 'normal' running and will take a while to get used to but I am going to continue and get out on the road when I can do half hour without the lower legs feeling like they've been attacked with a sledge hammer!
Really different effect to 'normal' running and will take a while to get used to but I am going to continue and get out on the road when I can do half hour without the lower legs feeling like they've been attacked with a sledge hammer!
I happened to watch this TED lecture the other day that talks about this subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvmBNvag-A4
T40ORA said:
First foray into running since the hip replacement. Only on the treadmill though. Anyway, 10 minutes after 40 on the cross trainer, and my calves were killing me!
Really different effect to 'normal' running and will take a while to get used to but I am going to continue and get out on the road when I can do half hour without the lower legs feeling like they've been attacked with a sledge hammer!
Well, good luck and keep us posted. Take. It. Steady.Really different effect to 'normal' running and will take a while to get used to but I am going to continue and get out on the road when I can do half hour without the lower legs feeling like they've been attacked with a sledge hammer!
I think you're the sort of person that if you were to get a set back with your hip now, you'd get a tad frustrated and depressed, so maybe try to do 10% less than what your enthusiasm thinks you are able to do. Live to run another day!
pacman1 said:
Well, good luck and keep us posted. Take. It. Steady.
I think you're the sort of person that if you were to get a set back with your hip now, you'd get a tad frustrated and depressed, so maybe try to do 10% less than what your enthusiasm thinks you are able to do. Live to run another day!
Yep, good advice, I do intend to take it very slowly. I enjoyed the running, even though it was in the gym and only for 10 minutes. The aim is to be at a reasonable level of fitness to enjoy some nice trail runs in the spring and onwards.I think you're the sort of person that if you were to get a set back with your hip now, you'd get a tad frustrated and depressed, so maybe try to do 10% less than what your enthusiasm thinks you are able to do. Live to run another day!
tank slapper said:
I happened to watch this TED lecture the other day that talks about this subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvmBNvag-A4
Read his book and never wear daft running shoes again!Tiggsy said:
tank slapper said:
I happened to watch this TED lecture the other day that talks about this subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvmBNvag-A4
Read his book and never wear daft running shoes again!Question; just did my second session on the treadmill. Again after the cross trainer, but only 12 minutes on the 'mill and my calves hurt like hell again!
Common sense tells me this is about right, but I just want to check that it is what I might expect. Also, due to the padding I want in case I catch my heel I am using normal running shoes. Will these hinder my style at all?
Common sense tells me this is about right, but I just want to check that it is what I might expect. Also, due to the padding I want in case I catch my heel I am using normal running shoes. Will these hinder my style at all?
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