Minimalist running.

[br d]

andy_s said:

Interesting stuff, I was an Inov8 convert 4-5 years ago and they worked really well for me (x-country/hill/mountain/ultra marathons) - far better than my old shoes which seem like army boots now. I'd wondered about the vibram 'barefoot' thing as this seems to be the next step down the line, I'm happy where I am I think, but open to new ideas.

Anyone else gone from inov8 to 'barefoot' in an offroad scenario - is there much of a difference? (Apart from grip - which seems to be phenominal with the inov8s).

Hi Andy,
I run cross country and hill, although not to any competition level. These Inov8s interest me but this is the first I've heard of them and I've just been to the website and found it all a little confusing.
Which ones would you recommend for a hobby runner? I normally do 6 - 8 miles, pretty tough terrain but some lanes included.

Thanks.

[Tiggsy]

T40ORA said:

Question; just did my second session on the treadmill. Again after the cross trainer, but only 12 minutes on the 'mill and my calves hurt like hell again!

Common sense tells me this is about right, but I just want to check that it is what I might expect. Also, due to the padding I want in case I catch my heel I am using normal running shoes. Will these hinder my style at all?

Calf pain, normal. Your calf is working like a shock absorber to lower your heel. Long term good, short term..... Hurts! I just ran through it and was fine within weeks.

I failed 100% to run in "normal" runners. Thr raised heel means its hard to anything but land on the heel.

[T40ORA]

Tiggsy said:

Calf pain, normal. Your calf is working like a shock absorber to lower your heel. Long term good, short term..... Hurts! I just ran through it and was fine within weeks.

I failed 100% to run in "normal" runners. Thr raised heel means its hard to anything but land on the heel.

Ta. There are selling £100 shoes at £29 in TKMaxx according to my wife. I think I will pay a visit and see if they have my size. Although normal shoes were OK, but maybe making me rise on my toes too much in order to miss catching the heel.

[andy_s]

br d said:

andy_s said:

Interesting stuff, I was an Inov8 convert 4-5 years ago and they worked really well for me (x-country/hill/mountain/ultra marathons) - far better than my old shoes which seem like army boots now. I'd wondered about the vibram 'barefoot' thing as this seems to be the next step down the line, I'm happy where I am I think, but open to new ideas.

Anyone else gone from inov8 to 'barefoot' in an offroad scenario - is there much of a difference? (Apart from grip - which seems to be phenominal with the inov8s).

Hi Andy,
I run cross country and hill, although not to any competition level. These Inov8s interest me but this is the first I've heard of them and I've just been to the website and found it all a little confusing.
Which ones would you recommend for a hobby runner? I normally do 6 - 8 miles, pretty tough terrain but some lanes included.

Thanks.

I'm more a participant than a competitor, so hobby-runner is probably a good definition of what I do as well I suppose; if you're running x-country/hill/trail then I'd start by looking at the Roclite 295, the Mudroc 290 is more aggressively soled and a little more pared down; either of these would be good though. Certainly worth trying them out though, they are the default choice at mountain marathon events and the like.
Good luck!

Edited by andy_s on Wednesday 8th February 08:48

[br d]

andy_s said:

I'm more a participant than a competitor, so hobby-runner is probably a good definition of what I do as well I suppose; if you're running x-country/hill/trail then I'd start by looking at the Roclite 295, the Mudroc 290 is more aggressively soled and a little more pared down; either of these would be good though. Certainly worth trying them out though, they are the default choice at mountain marathon events and the like.
Good luck!

Edited by andy_s on Wednesday 8th February 08:48

Right, cheers Andy.
I've just noticed they've also got a new shoe, the Terrafly 303, for both trail and road, do you think this would be too much of a compromise?

And this is probably going to sound like a stupid question but can I get a feel for this before I get the shoes? If I go out in my normal runners and try to run with minimal impact on my heel will it give me a rough idea or is the experience completely different?
I've been running for 25 years (with the odd break) and I've never even heard of these shoes or this method before. This is what I get for being unsociable!

[andy_s]

br d said:

Right, cheers Andy.
I've just noticed they've also got a new shoe, the Terrafly 303, for both trail and road, do you think this would be too much of a compromise?

And this is probably going to sound like a stupid question but can I get a feel for this before I get the shoes? If I go out in my normal runners and try to run with minimal impact on my heel will it give me a rough idea or is the experience completely different?
I've been running for 25 years (with the odd break) and I've never even heard of these shoes or this method before. This is what I get for being unsociable!

No worries - the inov8s are just a further development of the older Walsh fell running idea, (which was all there was for a while), and so doesn't need any specific different method of running, they just make you feel a bit more connected to the ground and have a low profile so you don't feel like you're in high-heels, so not really a forefoot strike method, just your normal running style, although that may alter slightlly but naturally when you're using them as it makes you feel far more 'fleet' of foot.
The Terrafly looks like a good compromise, but you lose the aggressive grip of the more off-road models. Depends on ratio of track to grass running you do I suppose.
I'm probably 80/20 grass/tarmac, and have been OK in some of their lightest shoes but for longer runs on tarmac I'd go with something 320+ weight. (The numbers are the weight of the shoes).
HTH

[Tiggsy]

br d said:

andy_s said:

I'm more a participant than a competitor, so hobby-runner is probably a good definition of what I do as well I suppose; if you're running x-country/hill/trail then I'd start by looking at the Roclite 295, the Mudroc 290 is more aggressively soled and a little more pared down; either of these would be good though. Certainly worth trying them out though, they are the default choice at mountain marathon events and the like.
Good luck!

Edited by andy_s on Wednesday 8th February 08:48

Right, cheers Andy.
I've just noticed they've also got a new shoe, the Terrafly 303, for both trail and road, do you think this would be too much of a compromise?

And this is probably going to sound like a stupid question but can I get a feel for this before I get the shoes? If I go out in my normal runners and try to run with minimal impact on my heel will it give me a rough idea or is the experience completely different?
I've been running for 25 years (with the odd break) and I've never even heard of these shoes or this method before. This is what I get for being unsociable!

I found it impossible to create the feeling of barefoot shoes in a standard trainer....and I tried! There is something very "freeing" about wearing next to nothing. You instantly feel lighter. In Born to Run the author compares it to running as a child.....most kids can run around quite happy without a gait analysis

[anonymous-user]

I wonder why we came to this point where people felt they needed so much support on their heel? Our legs and feet are obviously made to run with and we have big muscles and tendons to reduce shock. Why was it ever considered that this wasn't adequate?

Presumably it's a way of selling new products?

[Tiggsy]

el stovey said:

I wonder why we came to this point where people felt they needed so much support on their heel? Our legs and feet are obviously made to run with and we have big muscles and tendons to reduce shock. Why was it ever considered that this wasn't adequate?

Presumably it's a way of selling new products?

NIKE.

End of story!

[br d]

Right, thanks to Andy and Tiggsy for great advice.

I'm leaning towards the Terrafly 313GTX. My ratio is probably nearer 50/50 for trail and road and these seem to tick the boxes. Not quite 320 weight Andy but near enough and I'm not heavy (68Kg).

I'm going to order these online, how does the fit feel? I'm normally a UK9, do they come up normal or under or over?

I'm going to leave you alone after this I promise.

[andy_s]

br d said:

Right, thanks to Andy and Tiggsy for great advice.

I'm leaning towards the Terrafly 313GTX. My ratio is probably nearer 50/50 for trail and road and these seem to tick the boxes. Not quite 320 weight Andy but near enough and I'm not heavy (68Kg).

I'm going to order these online, how does the fit feel? I'm normally a UK9, do they come up normal or under or over?

I'm going to leave you alone after this I promise.

No worries.

I run in Bridgdale short thick hiking socks for training and a thin and medium pair for multi-days, so go half a size up from regular. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to return if you get them and they aren't fitting how you want - just go for size 9 and see. (They can be a tad narrow - but again I've broad feet, so again, see how this factors into your particular fit).

HTH

[Hoofy]

Since reading this thread, I've changed my running-across-the-road-or-for-a-bus style when wearing normal shoes and it really makes a difference to not feeling sore heels (obviously!).

[br d]

andy_s said:

No worries.

I run in Bridgdale short thick hiking socks for training and a thin and medium pair for multi-days, so go half a size up from regular. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to return if you get them and they aren't fitting how you want - just go for size 9 and see. (They can be a tad narrow - but again I've broad feet, so again, see how this factors into your particular fit).

HTH

Once again thank you, ordering today.

I'm really quite excited about this! Probably sounds silly but I found what worked for me in my running and have stuck with it for many years. This will be the first genuinely different facet to it for a very long time. I don't count the odd change of headphones!

/edit

Right, done. I even paid the 9 quid to get them here quicker.

Christ I'm getting old, this is the most exciting thing I've done for months!

Edited by br d on Thursday 9th February 14:54

[T40ORA]

I will be buying some replacement shoes too. But I will wait until I get over 5k on the treadmill without my calf muscles turning to mush.

Managed 2.5 Km on the treadmill today so it is getting better. But it is bloody weird having no CV, thigh, glut, hip issues but needing to give up due to pain in the calves.

[Tiggsy]

T40ORA said:

I will be buying some replacement shoes too. But I will wait until I get over 5k on the treadmill without my calf muscles turning to mush.

Managed 2.5 Km on the treadmill today so it is getting better. But it is bloody weird having no CV, thigh, glut, hip issues but needing to give up due to pain in the calves.

But how nice! You know why the calf hurt and it's good - it's working/getting stronger. When your joints/shins/bones hurt it's just pain, no joint hurts on its way to being better!

[T40ORA]

Tiggsy said:

But how nice! You know why the calf hurt and it's good - it's working/getting stronger. When your joints/shins/bones hurt it's just pain, no joint hurts on its way to being better!

Absolutely! It is weird as I have never felt my ability limited by this bodypart.

Mind you, it probably explains why I have such skinny calves!

[Tiggsy]

T40ORA said:

Tiggsy said:

But how nice! You know why the calf hurt and it's good - it's working/getting stronger. When your joints/shins/bones hurt it's just pain, no joint hurts on its way to being better!

Absolutely! It is weird as I have never felt my ability limited by this bodypart.

Mind you, it probably explains why I have such skinny calves!

I'm the same - over the years I've tried all sorts with them from heavy body building exercise to lots of jump training for basketball.....they have got more shape and definition in the last few months of running like this than ANY thing I ever did before.

[T40ORA]

Tiggsy said:

I'm the same - over the years I've tried all sorts with them from heavy body building exercise to lots of jump training for basketball.....they have got more shape and definition in the last few months of running like this than ANY thing I ever did before.

That sounds bloody hopeful! Just like you, I have tried everything. I can calf press a damned fine stack but still have a pair of Swan Vestas sticking out of the bottom of my shorts!

I will persevere......

[pacman1]

T40ORA said:

..but still have a pair of Swan Vestas sticking out of the bottom of my shorts!

Swollen red feet are not a good sign. Have you thought about changing your footwear?

[T40ORA]

pacman1 said:

T40ORA said:

..but still have a pair of Swan Vestas sticking out of the bottom of my shorts!

Swollen red feet are not a good sign. Have you thought about changing your footwear?