Drugs or Therapy - Fear Of Flying
Discussion
I've recently dedicated time and effort to tackling two phobias and was partly successful with one, but had zero success with the other. The first thing I'll say is that if they're deep rooted fears then it's very hard indeed to get rid of them - the one that I had success with involved several years of mild attempts followed by a year of concentrated effort (several hours a week), during which I lost 10kg in weight through stress, and even now it's only partly solved. The other fear remained untouched no matter what I threw at it.
Regarding treatments, on the therapy side of things there are a myriad of people out there willing to take your money, and I've tried most methods, but very few work. The only method that I found that worked for me was gradual exposure - make a list of situations involving what you're scared of ranging from 'ok' to 'worst imaginable' and work your way up the list with regular exposure. The problem with flying is that regular exposure is difficult and expensive to arrange. Even with something common like snakes or birds it can be really hard to arrange exposure regular enough and controllable enough to have any effect. With flying, you have that problem to some degree but you also have the high cost of flying.
Depending on how strong your fear is, re-assurance with facts may have an effect (get the flight tracker app on your phone and be amazed at how many thousands of planes are in the sky every second of the day 365 days a year flying around in perfect safety - it's utterly astounding). However, if it's a well rooted fear edging on a phobia, contrary to popular belief, learning how safe it is will have absolutely no effect at all. Try telling an arachnophobe that the species of spider they fear the most is harmless, or the bizarre statement of 'it's more scared of you' and obviously it'll have zero effect.
So, assuming you're not going to attack the problem with thousands of pounds in flight fees, flying lessons, arranging access to planes etc, in conclusion I'd have to side with the drugs side of things. That's the sad reality of the situation I'm afraid - the mind is a complex place!
Regarding treatments, on the therapy side of things there are a myriad of people out there willing to take your money, and I've tried most methods, but very few work. The only method that I found that worked for me was gradual exposure - make a list of situations involving what you're scared of ranging from 'ok' to 'worst imaginable' and work your way up the list with regular exposure. The problem with flying is that regular exposure is difficult and expensive to arrange. Even with something common like snakes or birds it can be really hard to arrange exposure regular enough and controllable enough to have any effect. With flying, you have that problem to some degree but you also have the high cost of flying.
Depending on how strong your fear is, re-assurance with facts may have an effect (get the flight tracker app on your phone and be amazed at how many thousands of planes are in the sky every second of the day 365 days a year flying around in perfect safety - it's utterly astounding). However, if it's a well rooted fear edging on a phobia, contrary to popular belief, learning how safe it is will have absolutely no effect at all. Try telling an arachnophobe that the species of spider they fear the most is harmless, or the bizarre statement of 'it's more scared of you' and obviously it'll have zero effect.
So, assuming you're not going to attack the problem with thousands of pounds in flight fees, flying lessons, arranging access to planes etc, in conclusion I'd have to side with the drugs side of things. That's the sad reality of the situation I'm afraid - the mind is a complex place!
diazepam 2/5mg ? pah, paediatric dose !! (tongue firmly in cheek btw)
maximum daily dose is 30mg in divided doses but can only really advise to use as prescribed. however, if you take the rx dose and are still anxious and you have more with you and you also know that the max daily dose is 30mg then ...
benzo's are CNS sedatives and commonly used as hypnotics or anxiolytics because of this "calming" effect on the CNS, which is where the physiological features of panic/anxiety arise. they don't address anxiety per se, rather they can be effective in damping down the physical sx.
consider also otc preparations - anti-histamines are used quite commonly in clinical practice for their sedative effects and a box of phenergan from tesco is a lot cheaper than a script. codeine is well known for it's sedative side effects which can make it a useful sleepy medicine
avoid alcohol as it interacts with benzo's and can potentiate the effects. also be aware that some people can experience a paradoxical reaction with benzo's - that is, they find that their sx can become more pronounced with increased agitation and excitation.
paul
maximum daily dose is 30mg in divided doses but can only really advise to use as prescribed. however, if you take the rx dose and are still anxious and you have more with you and you also know that the max daily dose is 30mg then ...
benzo's are CNS sedatives and commonly used as hypnotics or anxiolytics because of this "calming" effect on the CNS, which is where the physiological features of panic/anxiety arise. they don't address anxiety per se, rather they can be effective in damping down the physical sx.
consider also otc preparations - anti-histamines are used quite commonly in clinical practice for their sedative effects and a box of phenergan from tesco is a lot cheaper than a script. codeine is well known for it's sedative side effects which can make it a useful sleepy medicine
avoid alcohol as it interacts with benzo's and can potentiate the effects. also be aware that some people can experience a paradoxical reaction with benzo's - that is, they find that their sx can become more pronounced with increased agitation and excitation.
paul
Edited by paulmakin on Monday 30th March 22:37
Edited by paulmakin on Monday 30th March 22:38
thehawk in 2012 said:
People can harp on all they like about safest form of travel etc, but for me the problem is you are completely out of any control of your life whilst onboard. And accidents do happen, technical failures happen that we don't even know will happen yet, terrorists will think of new ways to do attacks, pilots can become suicidal, other planes could stray into your path etc etc
Way to go Nostradamus! Went on a fear of flying course about 5 yrs ago (Virgin)
Very good.
Its a phobia at the end of the day and the only way to deal with it is to confront it.
I tend to have a couple of drinks to relax me.
Used to take medication when really bad, but managed to overcome it these days.
Its a horrible fear to deal with and its surprising how many people have it.
Very good.
Its a phobia at the end of the day and the only way to deal with it is to confront it.
I tend to have a couple of drinks to relax me.
Used to take medication when really bad, but managed to overcome it these days.
Its a horrible fear to deal with and its surprising how many people have it.
I'm a professional aircraft engineer, and also a private pilot. Truth be told, I don't really like flying stuck down the back of a passenger plane.... It's not really interesting or fun, just a ball ache from start to finish, which really does not help matters.
However, modern airliners are INCREDIBLE.... So reliable, so highly maintained & have numerous system back ups, are very, very well built & strong, and packed with technology.
It sounds odd, but save your money & don't buy drugs! You are just masking the fear, go & explain your problem to a flight school, and go up for an hour in a light aircraft. Learn about how the work & despite the complexity, how beautifully simple they really are. If you really don't like it, you can go back & land in minutes, but chances are you will love it once you get to grips with it.
However, modern airliners are INCREDIBLE.... So reliable, so highly maintained & have numerous system back ups, are very, very well built & strong, and packed with technology.
It sounds odd, but save your money & don't buy drugs! You are just masking the fear, go & explain your problem to a flight school, and go up for an hour in a light aircraft. Learn about how the work & despite the complexity, how beautifully simple they really are. If you really don't like it, you can go back & land in minutes, but chances are you will love it once you get to grips with it.
RWD cossie wil said:
It sounds odd, but save your money & don't buy drugs! You are just masking the fear, go & explain your problem to a flight school, and go up for an hour in a light aircraft. Learn about how the work & despite the complexity, how beautifully simple they really are. If you really don't like it, you can go back & land in minutes, but chances are you will love it once you get to grips with it.
That's all a bit simplistic, there are plenty of other triggers for the anxiety/panic that people experience, not just not understanding how things fly or what goes on. Claustrophobia, Agoraphobhia (I think, a friend had a panic attack on a trans-Pacific flight when he suddenly realised he could get off and it was 3 hours to the nearest landing point), loss of control etc are probably just as common, if not more so, than just being afraid of flying.thehawk said:
RWD cossie wil said:
It sounds odd, but save your money & don't buy drugs! You are just masking the fear, go & explain your problem to a flight school, and go up for an hour in a light aircraft. Learn about how the work & despite the complexity, how beautifully simple they really are. If you really don't like it, you can go back & land in minutes, but chances are you will love it once you get to grips with it.
That's all a bit simplistic, there are plenty of other triggers for the anxiety/panic that people experience, not just not understanding how things fly or what goes on. Claustrophobia, Agoraphobhia (I think, a friend had a panic attack on a trans-Pacific flight when he suddenly realised he could get off and it was 3 hours to the nearest landing point), loss of control etc are probably just as common, if not more so, than just being afraid of flying.
If understanding how a plane works and how safe they are removes your fear, then you don't have a phobia, you have a fear. With my two phobias mentioned above, I followed this approach to quite ludicrous levels (the equivalent of becoming a competent aerobatic pilot), and it did nothing for my phobia at all. Phobias aren't rational, that's the whole point.I am fully aware that my fear is not rational, I'm an engineer so have a decent grasp of how flying works and am fully aware of how safe it is. Yet I can't help but s
t my pants at the mere idea of being on a plane.
I'm doing a safari in July which will involve flying in a Cessna type plane and I'm freaking about it already, to the point that I think I'll just bottle it!
So my flight to Miami went well, although I must admit 4mg of Diazepam complimented with a G&T before take off, along with several vodkas and wines on flight, didn't really have the strong effect I expected/hoped for.
Is it the Diazepam dose that was too weak, or should I have not mixed it with alcohol?
t my pants at the mere idea of being on a plane.I'm doing a safari in July which will involve flying in a Cessna type plane and I'm freaking about it already, to the point that I think I'll just bottle it!
So my flight to Miami went well, although I must admit 4mg of Diazepam complimented with a G&T before take off, along with several vodkas and wines on flight, didn't really have the strong effect I expected/hoped for.
Is it the Diazepam dose that was too weak, or should I have not mixed it with alcohol?
Edited by matrignano on Monday 13th April 10:15
matrignano said:
I am fully aware that my fear is not rational, I'm an engineer so have a decent grasp of how flying works and am fully aware of how safe it is. Yet I can't help but st my pants at the mere idea of being on a plane.
I'm doing a safari in July which will involve flying in a Cessna type plane and I'm freaking about it already, to the point that I think I'll just bottle it!
So my flight to Miami went well, although I must admit 4mg of Diazepam complimented with a G&T before take off, along with several vodkas and wines on flight, didn't really have the strong effect I expected/hoped for.
Is it the Diazepam dose that was too weak, or should I have not mixed it with alcohol?
There's no problem at all with that, as I said above, that's just what a phobia is: an irrational fear. Most of us with a bit of courage and logic can work on our rational fears quite effectively, and to be honest that's what most of these so called courses for phobias actually do - Virgin's flying one, or London Zoo's spider one, they 'cure' a high percentage of people because those people simply had a rational fear and didn't know enough about how harmless flying or spiders are. Reducing a true phobia with rational thought is rather like trying to cheer up a clinically depressed person with an ice cream, a day out or other such rational things - it won't work, or at least not that easily.t my pants at the mere idea of being on a plane.I'm doing a safari in July which will involve flying in a Cessna type plane and I'm freaking about it already, to the point that I think I'll just bottle it!
So my flight to Miami went well, although I must admit 4mg of Diazepam complimented with a G&T before take off, along with several vodkas and wines on flight, didn't really have the strong effect I expected/hoped for.
Is it the Diazepam dose that was too weak, or should I have not mixed it with alcohol?
Edited by matrignano on Monday 13th April 10:15
matrignano said:
I'm doing a safari in July which will involve flying in a Cessna type plane and I'm freaking about it already, to the point that I think I'll just bottle it!
I probably shouldn't say this mat...I'm not the best flyer but I've done it many times, if I'm not picking up a hire car at the other end I'll have a few beers before the flight and that helps. If I'm staying sober I just get on with it and hope for a smooth trip.
However, I was always mortally afraid of those very small planes, I had just resolved to never go on one.
Went on a trip to the Caribbean. Jumbo into Barbados, 80 odd seater into St Vincent then a Sea Ferry across to a small island called Bequia where we were staying. Some sort of mix up at Barbados meant they were splitting us into 2 different flights, no stress. Only after an hour or so I noticed that my partner and I seemed to be the only people still waiting. Eventually someone explained to us that they'd overbooked the original flight and they would arrange a "special" for us, the good news being that it would take us directly to Bequia, I started to feel uncomfortable.
After another couple of hours we were given new tickets and told to go to our plane along with 2 American guys who were heading there for business. We walked out onto the tarmac and I saw it, the tiniest, flimsiest, oldest looking thing you could imagine, my heart sank.
We got in, it had four seats, 2 one side and 2 the other facing ours, we could just about squeeze in, it made an original Mini feel spacious. We taxied out but had to wait for 45 minutes for a slot, during which time - I kid you not - the engine kept cutting out. The pilot would frantically flick switches on the ceiling and start it up again but after a while he gave up on this and got out of the plane, lifted the little bi-fold engine cover and started tweaking the tick over. I have never been so terrified in all my life!
I remember thinking, in a weirdly traumatised way, how bizarre it was that my GF and these two guys were completely oblivious to this, just all chatting and laughing and pointing at other planes taking off. I was entirely fixated on this bloke fiddling with the engine and would've screamed repeatedly at the top of my voice "THIS THING IS GOING TO CRASH!!!!" if I hadn't been so afraid that opening my mouth would have led to instant vomiting.
This is what fear does, I couldn't comprehend that they would be relaxed in this situation, it was complete madness.
We eventually got off, the flight was about 50 minutes which consisted largely of this tiny plane dropping huge distances in air pockets and then slowly climbing again. I stared maniacally at a Private Eye I'd bought with me and re-read the same sentence 500 times. The other three seemed to think this was great fun and made various whooping sounds when the plane dropped which made it even harder for me to pretend it wasn't happening. My heart was thrashing in my chest for the entire flight and I am still genuinely surprised I didn't have a coronary.
We had to fly past the island and turn back against the wind to line up for the tiny runway, as the plane manoeuvred around a huge gust caught it and I glared, horrified out of the window as the plane flew completely sideways for about 50 yards, at that point my life really did flash before my eyes.
It landed safely, I couldn't even remember my name by that point though.
And it didn't help me acclimatise in any way, I swear on my eyesight if I was in that same situation again I would just refuse it, stay in Barbados for the next 17 days instead and drink heavily.
As part of my Masters (Aerospace) we had to do flight testing to give us a better appreciation of how NOT to design a plane.
This meant going up in a BAe Jetstream with it trimmed all wrong and performing a multitude of different dynamic modes that are supposed to not exist in a proper plane.
This included a 3.5G (near the design limit of the aircraft) Spiral dive where all you could see out the port window was the mountains
And then a short period oscillation mode where if you let go of the notepad at the peak of the parabola, the book would levitate for 3 seconds. Just not move.
All very exciting!
This meant going up in a BAe Jetstream with it trimmed all wrong and performing a multitude of different dynamic modes that are supposed to not exist in a proper plane.
This included a 3.5G (near the design limit of the aircraft) Spiral dive where all you could see out the port window was the mountains
And then a short period oscillation mode where if you let go of the notepad at the peak of the parabola, the book would levitate for 3 seconds. Just not move.
All very exciting!
This is something I've been thinking a lot about recently, its nice to know I'm not alone in contemplating drugs to help.
I had a panic attack last year on my way back from Rome and I've got a flight to Mexico in June.
I had a chance meeting with a hypnotherapist last week and I asked her if she had any tips for me.
I'm not normally into alternative therapy but she sat me down and asked me some very simple questions:
What is it that you think scares you most? My answer: "the confined space"
Why does that scare you? "I can't escape if there is an accident or issue"
What does escaping mean to you? "to live"
What's the opposite of living? "dying"
So in simple terms she said my fear is of dying, not flying.
She also did some calming exercises with me, got me to visualise the fear, its texture, colour etc and then "tapping" to focus on the positives.
Although I sort of better understand my fear its still there and very real so I'm still thinking about asking for something to calm me down, something to take the edge off rather than completely knock me out. (I think I snore so I'd rather not be asleep!)
As a first timer using something like this it's great to pick up some tips on here (like how carbs and sugar can effect its use etc)
I had a panic attack last year on my way back from Rome and I've got a flight to Mexico in June.
I had a chance meeting with a hypnotherapist last week and I asked her if she had any tips for me.
I'm not normally into alternative therapy but she sat me down and asked me some very simple questions:
What is it that you think scares you most? My answer: "the confined space"
Why does that scare you? "I can't escape if there is an accident or issue"
What does escaping mean to you? "to live"
What's the opposite of living? "dying"
So in simple terms she said my fear is of dying, not flying.
She also did some calming exercises with me, got me to visualise the fear, its texture, colour etc and then "tapping" to focus on the positives.
Although I sort of better understand my fear its still there and very real so I'm still thinking about asking for something to calm me down, something to take the edge off rather than completely knock me out. (I think I snore so I'd rather not be asleep!)
As a first timer using something like this it's great to pick up some tips on here (like how carbs and sugar can effect its use etc)
lucee said:
So in simple terms she said my fear is of dying, not flying.
But that doesn't explain why you'd happily take a taxi (I presume you would), but not fly.I quite happily sit there in the knowledge that I'm either already dead or I'll survive. There's no point worrying about it. But then I do the same when I get in a taxi, or I'm a passenger in a friend of a friends car. You sit there in the knowledge that if it's going to go wrong, it's going to go wrong, and there's no real chance you'd do anything about it.
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