Alcoholism? Help Needed.....
Discussion
Lots of good advice on this thread - my brother's partner is a recovering alcoholic (widow with 4 youngish kids), only discovered by him when he discovered hidden vodka (always seems to be vodka) in the wardrobe.
It's been a long two years for him to help her come to terms with her demons (triggered by the death of her husband) but thankfully she seems to have turned the corner. Very hard on him and to his credit he's helped and supported her tremendously and sheltered the children from it as much as possible.
I really hope in this case it's something that's been caught in time and that things turn out OK for you both. All the best.
It's been a long two years for him to help her come to terms with her demons (triggered by the death of her husband) but thankfully she seems to have turned the corner. Very hard on him and to his credit he's helped and supported her tremendously and sheltered the children from it as much as possible.
I really hope in this case it's something that's been caught in time and that things turn out OK for you both. All the best.
towser said:
She usually has a couple of drinks after the little one goes to bed to unwind. Although this concerns me a little
boobles said:
Do you nag her about her drinking? She may feel the need to hide it away from you so that you don't moan at her.
This occurred to me. If I had an OH that was somewhat disapproving of me having a wee tipple I might be tempted to "hide" it.
Not to say this is what's happening in the OPs case; just an observation.
Slink said:
No, Ill think you will find it is not.
its an addiction, like getting addicted to meths, or pot. they are not diseased so they want to smoke or drink, they are addicted.
i get really pissed off when people say that its a disease, as it bloody well isnt, and thats what AA tells you, when it f
king isnt.
sorry to go OT but it needed to be said.
This is true. You can't cure a disease by being kidnapped by Hezbollah and chained to a radiator for 10 yrs. You'd probably die of your disease. But if you were an alcoholic, being kidnapped by Hezbollah would help!!its an addiction, like getting addicted to meths, or pot. they are not diseased so they want to smoke or drink, they are addicted.
i get really pissed off when people say that its a disease, as it bloody well isnt, and thats what AA tells you, when it f
king isnt.sorry to go OT but it needed to be said.
I'm not belittling alcoholism, which must be an awful situation, but disease it isn't.
geeks said:
Has the drinking thing started since she had the youngun? It could be a symptom of postnatal depression! My mum had this after she had my brother and it is a strange condition that affects woman in different ways etc..
This.. and you need to be very very careful how to handle it.. Talking about it hopefully should be a good start.TwigtheWonderkid said:
You can't cure a disease by being kidnapped by Hezbollah and chained to a radiator for 10 yrs. You'd probably die of your disease. But if you were an alcoholic, being kidnapped by Hezbollah would help!!
Cheers Twig, I've just dropped an email to the GMC and several of the UKs top universitys - hopefully we'll hear back soon and they will have updated the litearture with your definition of disease...Also I'm in Oxford tomorrow so I'll pop into see the dictionary people, because they too fall short of your excellantly precise definition - they only have this...
dis·ease /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled [dih-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, dis·eased, dis·eas·ing.
noun
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
Talk to her ... but ... alcoholics will lie their teeth off (both to themselves and to you).
The more she covers up and lies, the further down the road she is.
I do hope you can intervene in time ... living with, or being related to, an alcoholic is unbearable. Impossible with a little'un I would say.
Good luck.
The more she covers up and lies, the further down the road she is.
I do hope you can intervene in time ... living with, or being related to, an alcoholic is unbearable. Impossible with a little'un I would say.
Good luck.
mattnunn said:
Cheers Twig, I've just dropped an email to the GMC and several of the UKs top universitys - hopefully we'll hear back soon and they will have updated the litearture with your definition of disease...
Also I'm in Oxford tomorrow so I'll pop into see the dictionary people, because they too fall short of your excellantly precise definition - they only have this...
dis·ease /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled [dih-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, dis·eased, dis·eas·ing.
noun
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
Do you think having an imaginery friend as an adult is a disease? Also I'm in Oxford tomorrow so I'll pop into see the dictionary people, because they too fall short of your excellantly precise definition - they only have this...
dis·ease /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled [dih-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, dis·eased, dis·eas·ing.
noun
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
Watching with interest as my wife imho opinion is an alcoholic, this seems to be the case for the last 4 years or so, my wife also suffers from mental health issues which lead to a severe case of anorexia, this she recovered from although she is still under weight, the drinking seemed to be all part of her mental illness, the biggest issue is getting your partner to admit she has a drinking issue, I thought I had cracked this after a holiday my wife finally admitted she had a drink problem and went to AA, she went once and has never been back,didnt want to take their advice, she drinks a bottle of wine a night that I know about, sometimes I find hidden bottles of vodka, but haven’t found any lately, but my wife also has a bad habit of drinking diet coke, she could put vodka in this and I would not know
Family life is sole destroying, I have 2 teenage kids, both understand that their mother is ill, we plod on in the hope one day my wife and their mum will return to her normal self
Problem is i enjoy a pint at the weekend, but don’t touch a drop Monday to Thursday
Family life is sole destroying, I have 2 teenage kids, both understand that their mother is ill, we plod on in the hope one day my wife and their mum will return to her normal self
Problem is i enjoy a pint at the weekend, but don’t touch a drop Monday to Thursday
As others have said, get talking ASAP. Don't start accusing as she'll just deny it. Work it through together, a problem shared and all that. Remember, women can be extremely deceptive so if it gets confrontational you won't have a hope of resolution.
I very much doubt this problem will go away on it's own and will probably just get worse as the years roll on. I ignored it as "her help to unwind" which later turned into "the bh from hell" and we didn't really solve it for 15 years. A lot of damage was done.
One thing I learnt was that the earlier you face up to these issues the easier they are to solve. In my case the Mrs definitely had PND and I just chose to ignore it and put it down to the mental. The only mistake in life I truly regret.
I very much doubt this problem will go away on it's own and will probably just get worse as the years roll on. I ignored it as "her help to unwind" which later turned into "the b
h from hell" and we didn't really solve it for 15 years. A lot of damage was done.One thing I learnt was that the earlier you face up to these issues the easier they are to solve. In my case the Mrs definitely had PND and I just chose to ignore it and put it down to the mental. The only mistake in life I truly regret.
Snowy, are you my long lost twin?
I know exactly what you mean. My wife is exactly the same - without the bottle of wine a night. She is still attending AA but after three weeks is already making the 'it's a waste of time/not for me' noises. She too is hiding the drink but not admitting drinking despite being paralytic.
I am at my wits end, would have left were it not for my son who's 8. I sometimes feel so alone trying to deal with it, that I've started writing a blog. I'm not writing it for any other reason than it's like talking it through with someone. It helps.
I know exactly what you mean. My wife is exactly the same - without the bottle of wine a night. She is still attending AA but after three weeks is already making the 'it's a waste of time/not for me' noises. She too is hiding the drink but not admitting drinking despite being paralytic.
I am at my wits end, would have left were it not for my son who's 8. I sometimes feel so alone trying to deal with it, that I've started writing a blog. I'm not writing it for any other reason than it's like talking it through with someone. It helps.
Tyre Smoke said:
Snowy, are you my long lost twin?
I know exactly what you mean. My wife is exactly the same - without the bottle of wine a night. She is still attending AA but after three weeks is already making the 'it's a waste of time/not for me' noises. She too is hiding the drink but not admitting drinking despite being paralytic.
I am at my wits end, would have left were it not for my son who's 8. I sometimes feel so alone trying to deal with it, that I've started writing a blog. I'm not writing it for any other reason than it's like talking it through with someone. It helps.
This is so often the case.. and 3 to 6 weeks are the difficult ones when the brain says 'sI know exactly what you mean. My wife is exactly the same - without the bottle of wine a night. She is still attending AA but after three weeks is already making the 'it's a waste of time/not for me' noises. She too is hiding the drink but not admitting drinking despite being paralytic.
I am at my wits end, would have left were it not for my son who's 8. I sometimes feel so alone trying to deal with it, that I've started writing a blog. I'm not writing it for any other reason than it's like talking it through with someone. It helps.
t i'm like this to' and then goes into full blown resist/flight mode. Sometimes, it's good to remind the person that they need to keep doing it. AA isn't for everyone, that's for sure, but what you describe is the often huge mental knee-jerk reaction surrounding 'I don't want to do this'.Feel for you OP. My wife became an alcoholic and unless you've lived with it, no one can ever truly understand how destructive it is. At one stage I was suicidal as I just couldn't see anyway out. Eventually we parted, 3 years ago (been married 16 years).
I'm only just starting to get my own life back on track after this but am still on anti-depressants. Thankfully there were no kids involved but I hope you can get things sorted. My wife had bottles stashed all over the house and it broke my heart every time I came across one.
I'm only just starting to get my own life back on track after this but am still on anti-depressants. Thankfully there were no kids involved but I hope you can get things sorted. My wife had bottles stashed all over the house and it broke my heart every time I came across one.
The lying is something you will need to be very much aware of. The younger of my alcoholic brothers would say he was just going out for a walk. You would check that he had no cash or cards on him, but he would always find a way to buy a quarter or half bottle of vodka and down it in the five minutes he was out. When I was away, he'd always reassure me on the phone that he wasn't drinking. Then I'd hear from another brother or a friend about the latest incident. You want to believe them, but you can't.
Tyre Smoke said:
Snowy, are you my long lost twin?
I know exactly what you mean. My wife is exactly the same - without the bottle of wine a night. She is still attending AA but after three weeks is already making the 'it's a waste of time/not for me' noises. She too is hiding the drink but not admitting drinking despite being paralytic.
I am at my wits end, would have left were it not for my son who's 8. I sometimes feel so alone trying to deal with it, that I've started writing a blog. I'm not writing it for any other reason than it's like talking it through with someone. It helps.
My mother was an alcoholic, and I can honestly say that for her, attending AA was possibly the worst thing she could have done.I know exactly what you mean. My wife is exactly the same - without the bottle of wine a night. She is still attending AA but after three weeks is already making the 'it's a waste of time/not for me' noises. She too is hiding the drink but not admitting drinking despite being paralytic.
I am at my wits end, would have left were it not for my son who's 8. I sometimes feel so alone trying to deal with it, that I've started writing a blog. I'm not writing it for any other reason than it's like talking it through with someone. It helps.
I think the concept of 'illness' is deeply unhelpful, since it prevents the alcoholic from taking responsibility for their own behaviour. "Yes, but I have an illness" they're told to say. Therefore they can do what they like, since it's not their fault.
The AA 'my life's story' sessions didn't help either. Compared with some of the other attendees who had literally ended up on the streets as down-and-outs, it was all too easy for her to convince herself that she didn't have a problem.
The deference to a 'Higher Power' is cobblers too. The power to change comes from the person who wants to change, and nowhere else.
In spite of all that, the one thing I'd say AA is good for, is the support network. However technology has changed all that, and you now have 24/7 access to a global community of people who are all behind you.
Life with an alcoholic is miserable. We know.
Hang in there brother, and remember we're always here if you need to offload.
Agree with you to an extent MC, but.....
My wife actually seems to get something from AA. She is an Irish Catholic so the religious thing sits okay with her. She comes home feeling quite humbled by some of the life stories.
However......
She has started clamming up about what happened at her meetings and when she meets her sponsor on a one to one. She has lapsed quite badly at least once, by hiding the drink and swearing she's not drunk, despite it being obvious. She has become more secretive and made the 'it's not for me' noises, more and more. She is a weak character and her family have a strong history of mental illness and low self esteem. She latches on to the illness thing quite a bit too. It used to be 'well you all get drunk, so why can't I?' but as anyone who has lived or is living with an alcoholic knows, that is completely different. When I drink, I know when I have had enough.
My wife actually seems to get something from AA. She is an Irish Catholic so the religious thing sits okay with her. She comes home feeling quite humbled by some of the life stories.
However......
She has started clamming up about what happened at her meetings and when she meets her sponsor on a one to one. She has lapsed quite badly at least once, by hiding the drink and swearing she's not drunk, despite it being obvious. She has become more secretive and made the 'it's not for me' noises, more and more. She is a weak character and her family have a strong history of mental illness and low self esteem. She latches on to the illness thing quite a bit too. It used to be 'well you all get drunk, so why can't I?' but as anyone who has lived or is living with an alcoholic knows, that is completely different. When I drink, I know when I have had enough.
It's a common misconception that alcoholism is related to how much you drink, it isn't. There is an obvious relationship between alcoholics and drinking a lot, but it's more about an attitude towards drink, rather than volume. There are people who can drink large amount every night and never develop a problem. Some people might only drink once a week, but if they spend all their time obsessing about it, and find it very hard to control, it is possible for them to have a problem.
Hiding alcohol, particularly vodka is very worrying (its a common belief vodka doesn't smell like booze). It's basically an indicator that alcohol is being used for a specific purpose, and the fact that it's been hidden is a very strong indicator that it has been self identified as a problem. If you're out at work all day, my suspicion would be that she is drinking during that time, and then "topping up" when you get in from work.
The first step to recovery is identifying that you have a problem, i.e. she needs to realise that she does. Perhaps you raising this will be a "moment of truth" for her.
These things can be a short term "blip" while people are coping with stress or whatever. The only way to really test it is to propose going without booze for a while and seeing how she copes. If it's impossible then that is a very strong indicator that there is a problem. Anyone with a healthy relationship with alcohol should be able to stop drinking without any problem, at least in the short term.
Hiding alcohol, particularly vodka is very worrying (its a common belief vodka doesn't smell like booze). It's basically an indicator that alcohol is being used for a specific purpose, and the fact that it's been hidden is a very strong indicator that it has been self identified as a problem. If you're out at work all day, my suspicion would be that she is drinking during that time, and then "topping up" when you get in from work.
The first step to recovery is identifying that you have a problem, i.e. she needs to realise that she does. Perhaps you raising this will be a "moment of truth" for her.
These things can be a short term "blip" while people are coping with stress or whatever. The only way to really test it is to propose going without booze for a while and seeing how she copes. If it's impossible then that is a very strong indicator that there is a problem. Anyone with a healthy relationship with alcohol should be able to stop drinking without any problem, at least in the short term.
Edited by GBDG on Thursday 22 November 22:45
Mobile Chicane said:
My mother was an alcoholic, and I can honestly say that for her, attending AA was possibly the worst thing she could have done.
I think the concept of 'illness' is deeply unhelpful, since it prevents the alcoholic from taking responsibility for their own behaviour. "Yes, but I have an illness" they're told to say. Therefore they can do what they like, since it's not their fault.
The AA 'my life's story' sessions didn't help either. Compared with some of the other attendees who had literally ended up on the streets as down-and-outs, it was all too easy for her to convince herself that she didn't have a problem.
The deference to a 'Higher Power' is cobblers too. The power to change comes from the person who wants to change, and nowhere else.
I'm confused by your post, taken directly from the 12 steps:I think the concept of 'illness' is deeply unhelpful, since it prevents the alcoholic from taking responsibility for their own behaviour. "Yes, but I have an illness" they're told to say. Therefore they can do what they like, since it's not their fault.
The AA 'my life's story' sessions didn't help either. Compared with some of the other attendees who had literally ended up on the streets as down-and-outs, it was all too easy for her to convince herself that she didn't have a problem.
The deference to a 'Higher Power' is cobblers too. The power to change comes from the person who wants to change, and nowhere else.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
How is that advocating absolving oneself of responsibility?
In terms of the "life story" part, the purpose of the sharing is to share in ones "experience, strength, and hope", not a competition to see who has the worst life story. It would take a very distorted perspective to view things how you have stated them.
The deference to a higher power is necessary to someone at rock bottom. How can someone who has reached the lowest of the low look inside themselves and find any strength - they have proven to be a failure. Unfortunately, many don't and that is sadly why the recovery rates are so low. Finding a higher power gives people a hope to rebuild themselves. The power can be anything, it can be faith in humanity. But someone who has nothing needs to believe in something to succeed.
I'm not a member of AA myself, but I will be eternally grateful for the impact it has had on my life. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative, and it would be very sad to see people deterred from help because of incorrect advice on the internet.
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