Deadlifting! Anyone know much about it?
Discussion
Hello, I have recently started deadlifting a bit more than I used to. I have been reading Pavel Tatsouline's 'Power To The People' book, where he talks about heavy weights and low reps, not lifting to failure but instead doing a set of 5 reps, then dropping down 10% and another set of 5. Then if you want, drop weight to 80% of first set and carry on lifting sets of 5 until you can't lift 5 with good form.
The idea is to keep from getting injured, but get a lot stronger, without crawling out of the gym. In fact the idea is after your workout, you're still full of energy, which is the opposite of how I used to feel when I reached failure 30-40 times a session.
Anyway I am 5'11" and probably about 180lbs, which I think is about 80kg. I haven't weighed myself for a while. I've been lifting on and off for years, but have had enough of getting ill or injured as soon as I get some consistency in my training, which could be coincidental but could be due to overtraining, so am trying out this new routine. I used to deadlift approx 100kg to failure, but stopped cos I ended up hurting myself.
Anyway, to the point, after a couple of weeks of starting this new routine, last night I deadlifted (kg of course)
110x5
100x5
90x5
Followed up with benching, starting at 80kg, then dropping down the weights and a few other compound exercises. The question I have is what sort of deadlifting, benching targets should I be aiming for? 110kg doesn't feel too heavy and I feel like I could grind out at least a couple more reps but I'm trying to stick with the program and not go to failure. I simply have no idea really what are good targets for bench and dead as most of the people in my gym just do stuff like one arm preacher curls with extremely low weights and no one really lifts any big weights. Any input appreciated!
The idea is to keep from getting injured, but get a lot stronger, without crawling out of the gym. In fact the idea is after your workout, you're still full of energy, which is the opposite of how I used to feel when I reached failure 30-40 times a session.
Anyway I am 5'11" and probably about 180lbs, which I think is about 80kg. I haven't weighed myself for a while. I've been lifting on and off for years, but have had enough of getting ill or injured as soon as I get some consistency in my training, which could be coincidental but could be due to overtraining, so am trying out this new routine. I used to deadlift approx 100kg to failure, but stopped cos I ended up hurting myself.
Anyway, to the point, after a couple of weeks of starting this new routine, last night I deadlifted (kg of course)
110x5
100x5
90x5
Followed up with benching, starting at 80kg, then dropping down the weights and a few other compound exercises. The question I have is what sort of deadlifting, benching targets should I be aiming for? 110kg doesn't feel too heavy and I feel like I could grind out at least a couple more reps but I'm trying to stick with the program and not go to failure. I simply have no idea really what are good targets for bench and dead as most of the people in my gym just do stuff like one arm preacher curls with extremely low weights and no one really lifts any big weights. Any input appreciated!
Edited by IanCormac on Thursday 22 November 13:14
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_St...
Have a look at this, perfect routine for a novice like yourself. Warning - its HARD!
Have a look at this, perfect routine for a novice like yourself. Warning - its HARD!
I used to do sets of 6 when deadlifting, but I used to start light and finish heady.
I've never tried pyramid training by reducing weight!
I did injure my back doing deadlifts a few years back but that was because I hadn't warmed up and I was thinking of the last couple of sets, and so I my form wasn't as good as it should have been. If you are starting with your heaviest set first, you could injure yourself as you increase how much you can lift.
My aim was to lift 3 times my weight for 1 rep , which should have been possible the day my back went! So I would say target 1 1/2 times your weight for deads and maybe 1 1/4 times your weight for flat bench press if you're doing 5 reps.
I've never tried pyramid training by reducing weight!
I did injure my back doing deadlifts a few years back but that was because I hadn't warmed up and I was thinking of the last couple of sets, and so I my form wasn't as good as it should have been. If you are starting with your heaviest set first, you could injure yourself as you increase how much you can lift.
My aim was to lift 3 times my weight for 1 rep , which should have been possible the day my back went! So I would say target 1 1/2 times your weight for deads and maybe 1 1/4 times your weight for flat bench press if you're doing 5 reps.
Thanks for the replies. I know pyramiding downwards is against what a lot do, but the theory behind it is that you lift your biggest weight when you have the most energy I suppose, rather than lifting your heaviest weight when you are already tired. I am not an expert or defending it as such, just that is my understanding of it. Something I have read about is that your supporting muscles tire before your stronger muscles, which is one of the reasons that Pavel says lifting to failure and starting light and then getting heavier can cause issues, as the support muscles have nothing left, while your large muscles have.
I am just making sure that I am warm before going for my first set and trying not to burst anything!
I know lifting my current amount is rather feeble compared to a lot of lifters, I was just wondering how others on here get on with deadlifting. I know that 140kg would be heavy to me, so am looking forward to the day I can lift that for 5 as I know that will be a good step up from where I am now, even if I'm no bigger.
I am just making sure that I am warm before going for my first set and trying not to burst anything!
I know lifting my current amount is rather feeble compared to a lot of lifters, I was just wondering how others on here get on with deadlifting. I know that 140kg would be heavy to me, so am looking forward to the day I can lift that for 5 as I know that will be a good step up from where I am now, even if I'm no bigger.
Edited by IanCormac on Thursday 22 November 13:44
No, it's first set at heaviest weight, then work down.
I do some warming up with a lighter weight and stretching etc first as heavy set from cold just feels instinctively wrong. But yeah doing it this way means the heaviest set is the first one.
I won't deadlift to failure again. I never really had a specific injury from doing this, but I always felt like death afterwards and not just the tired but happy feeling of a good workout, but a feeling that I had done myself a mischief.
The way I feel at the moment is fine when I leave the gym, but as I am used to going to failure it does feel a bit odd to bounce out of the gym rather than crawl. I do sort of feel like I am shirking in a way because I'm not used to that feeling, but that will go if the weights go up as I will feel like I'm getting somewhere. To be honest 110x5 would have been a struggle a couple of weeks ago, but it was easy yesterday, so I do feel like something is happening.
I'll let you all know when I get to 140x5. There must be plenty of people on here that can do that and more, I was just wondering what other weights some of you guys are lifting in the bench and deadlift? I know it makes no odds to me, but I'm curious.
I do some warming up with a lighter weight and stretching etc first as heavy set from cold just feels instinctively wrong. But yeah doing it this way means the heaviest set is the first one.
I won't deadlift to failure again. I never really had a specific injury from doing this, but I always felt like death afterwards and not just the tired but happy feeling of a good workout, but a feeling that I had done myself a mischief.
The way I feel at the moment is fine when I leave the gym, but as I am used to going to failure it does feel a bit odd to bounce out of the gym rather than crawl. I do sort of feel like I am shirking in a way because I'm not used to that feeling, but that will go if the weights go up as I will feel like I'm getting somewhere. To be honest 110x5 would have been a struggle a couple of weeks ago, but it was easy yesterday, so I do feel like something is happening.
I'll let you all know when I get to 140x5. There must be plenty of people on here that can do that and more, I was just wondering what other weights some of you guys are lifting in the bench and deadlift? I know it makes no odds to me, but I'm curious.
Edited by IanCormac on Thursday 22 November 14:16
I used to love deadlifts. Before I started going to the gym I would often get a bad back, started going with a mate who really pushed me into training properly and explained how important deadlifts are! Since then I've rarely had a bad back.
Anyway, I first started with literally the bar, just to work on form. Built the weight up gradually to keep the form good until I could do good, clean sets of 10x100kg reps.
Standard sets for me would be 10x 40kg 'warm up' 10x 80kg, 6x 100kg 3x 120kg then if the place is quiet go for a one rep max at around 130-140kg. With more training I could've pushed it further but I haven't been at the gym much since Spring!
My training partner at the time could manage 5x reps at 230kg.
Anyway, I first started with literally the bar, just to work on form. Built the weight up gradually to keep the form good until I could do good, clean sets of 10x100kg reps.
Standard sets for me would be 10x 40kg 'warm up' 10x 80kg, 6x 100kg 3x 120kg then if the place is quiet go for a one rep max at around 130-140kg. With more training I could've pushed it further but I haven't been at the gym much since Spring!
My training partner at the time could manage 5x reps at 230kg.
IanCormac said:
No, it's first set at heaviest weight, then work down.
I do some warming up with a lighter weight and stretching etc first as heavy set from cold just feels instinctively wrong. But yeah doing it this way means the heaviest set is the first one.
I won't deadlift to failure again. I never really had a specific injury from doing this, but I always felt like death afterwards and not just the tired but happy feeling of a good workout, but a feeling that I had done myself a mischief.
The way I feel at the moment is fine when I leave the gym, but as I am used to going to failure it does feel a bit odd to bounce out of the gym rather than crawl. I do sort of feel like I am shirking in a way because I'm not used to that feeling, but that will go if the weights go up as I will feel like I'm getting somewhere. To be honest 110x5 would have been a struggle a couple of weeks ago, but it was easy yesterday, so I do feel like something is happening.
I'll let you all know when I get to 140x5. There must be plenty of people on here that can do that and more, I was just wondering what other weights some of you guys are lifting in the bench and deadlift? I know it makes no odds to me, but I'm curious.
With no steroid use (with a bodybuilding lifting routine):I do some warming up with a lighter weight and stretching etc first as heavy set from cold just feels instinctively wrong. But yeah doing it this way means the heaviest set is the first one.
I won't deadlift to failure again. I never really had a specific injury from doing this, but I always felt like death afterwards and not just the tired but happy feeling of a good workout, but a feeling that I had done myself a mischief.
The way I feel at the moment is fine when I leave the gym, but as I am used to going to failure it does feel a bit odd to bounce out of the gym rather than crawl. I do sort of feel like I am shirking in a way because I'm not used to that feeling, but that will go if the weights go up as I will feel like I'm getting somewhere. To be honest 110x5 would have been a struggle a couple of weeks ago, but it was easy yesterday, so I do feel like something is happening.
I'll let you all know when I get to 140x5. There must be plenty of people on here that can do that and more, I was just wondering what other weights some of you guys are lifting in the bench and deadlift? I know it makes no odds to me, but I'm curious.
Bench 150kg x 3
Deadlift 220 x 1
Squat 180 x 2
Working down after max effort, is in my experience and educated opinion of little use (unless you're trying to remap the movement motor pattern). Problem is, once you go for max effort, your muscle's maximum work ability goes out the window, as does your CNS's ability to fire. So you end up doing less overall work than you would if you did 3 sets at 5 reps of the same weight, aiming for failure on the last rep of the last set.
Training to failure is not such an issue in regards to CNS burn out when you're a newbie to lifting as your body simply isn't very good at getting it to fire, however when you become reasonably advanced, maximum attempts or work to failure will have you stalling or going backwards fast as your CNS can't recover and becomes less and less efficient.
sparkyhx said:
slightly off topic - but why not try 'proper' weightlifting
There's a lot more technique in Olympic lifting and I've been told you're at more risk of getting injured if you don't know what you're doing. Training on my own and never knowing anyone that does Olympic lifting, I've always stuck with the more basic power lifting exercises.amare32 said:
Some of you guys are deadlifting 150kg is impressive. I'm sure I read somewhere that Victoria Pendleton DLs 260kg+!!!
I doubt she could lift close to that, if she did, she'd be world record holder at her weight class and giving the 198lb+ weight class a run for their money.Regiment said:
I doubt she could lift close to that, if she did, she'd be world record holder at her weight class and giving the 198lb+ weight class a run for their money.
Sorry got it wrong 
It was 260kg squats. If that is true that is mightily impressive. But it wouldnt surprise me as these are elite cyclists setting world records.Well I'm up to 115x5 on the deadlift now, with what feels like plenty of room in the tank. I have been tempted to just jump up a bit more, but I'm taking it steady at about 5kg a week upwards to try and avoid injury.
I have to say I'm not a complete novice at the gym, I have been lifting on and off for years, but never really deadlifted with any consistency before and never over 100kg either before a few weeks ago when I started concentrating on it. Maybe I'm capable of more, but I am trying to take it steady and concentrate on form so my back doesn't explode.
I looked on a bodybuilding forum, although I didn't post, they say that double bodyweight deadlift x 5 reps is average and to be strong you should be lifting triple. I am not sure how much of that is true and how much is them all slapping themselves and each other on the back though. If I could lift 240x5 then I would certainly feel strong.
I have to say I'm not a complete novice at the gym, I have been lifting on and off for years, but never really deadlifted with any consistency before and never over 100kg either before a few weeks ago when I started concentrating on it. Maybe I'm capable of more, but I am trying to take it steady and concentrate on form so my back doesn't explode.
I looked on a bodybuilding forum, although I didn't post, they say that double bodyweight deadlift x 5 reps is average and to be strong you should be lifting triple. I am not sure how much of that is true and how much is them all slapping themselves and each other on the back though. If I could lift 240x5 then I would certainly feel strong.
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