A 'hypothetical' question please
Discussion
I am interested in medial staff opinions and non medical staff opinions.
what would people recommend in the following situation.
Patient presents with chest pains ans shortness of breath
Patient is 66 with no known health issues and is in general good condition for age.
female non smoker, non drinker.
No previous chest or breathing complaints.
Patient had flown on a 16 hour flight 4 days previously.
if there are any doctors around what would you suggest. Also interested in non expert opinions just to see if my thinking is way off.
Thanks in advance.
what would people recommend in the following situation.
Patient presents with chest pains ans shortness of breath
Patient is 66 with no known health issues and is in general good condition for age.
female non smoker, non drinker.
No previous chest or breathing complaints.
Patient had flown on a 16 hour flight 4 days previously.
if there are any doctors around what would you suggest. Also interested in non expert opinions just to see if my thinking is way off.
Thanks in advance.
Nearly lost my dad to pulmonary embolism twice (bad luck/clotting disorder) - been well educated about risks and causes since, so I'd at the very least expect a chest x-ray and possibly some sort of perfusion scan or other reliable diagnostic/rule-out tests. (not sure about what current standard of care is, my dad's stuff was in the 90s and early 00s so might have changed).
Hope the hypothetical patient is OK. If there's any concern that it really is pulmonary embolism then anybody caring for them will want to be pretty bloody vigilant and probably advocate quite strongly for testing as if/when a not-currently-too-bad PE goes 'wrong' it does so quickly and seriously.
Hope the hypothetical patient is OK. If there's any concern that it really is pulmonary embolism then anybody caring for them will want to be pretty bloody vigilant and probably advocate quite strongly for testing as if/when a not-currently-too-bad PE goes 'wrong' it does so quickly and seriously.
BlackVanDyke said:
Nearly lost my dad to pulmonary embolism twice (bad luck/clotting disorder) - been well educated about risks and causes since, so I'd at the very least expect a chest x-ray and possibly some sort of perfusion scan or other reliable diagnostic/rule-out tests. (not sure about what current standard of care is, my dad's stuff was in the 90s and early 00s so might have changed).
Hope the hypothetical patient is OK. If there's any concern that it really is pulmonary embolism then anybody caring for them will want to be pretty bloody vigilant and probably advocate quite strongly for testing as if/when a not-currently-too-bad PE goes 'wrong' it does so quickly and seriously.
Thank youHope the hypothetical patient is OK. If there's any concern that it really is pulmonary embolism then anybody caring for them will want to be pretty bloody vigilant and probably advocate quite strongly for testing as if/when a not-currently-too-bad PE goes 'wrong' it does so quickly and seriously.
The patient was sent away with a diagnosis of anxiety attack.
The patient died early this morning.
The patient was my mother.
Ive been on here trying to take my mind off it. Because the more I think about it he more I realise I'm a w
ker who made the same mistake twice now.she saved up for a once in a lifetime holiday. The only time she has ever put herself first. She worked full time and still looked after everybody else tirelessly.
And i took it all for granted like the
i am. didn't even text to see if she got there safe or was enjoying herself.Pesty said:
Thank you
The patient was sent away with a diagnosis of anxiety attack.
The patient died early this morning.
The patient was my mother.
Ive been on here trying to take my mind off it. Because the more I think about it he more I realise I'm a wker who made the same mistake twice now.
she saved up for a once in a lifetime holiday. The only time she has ever put herself first. She worked full time and still looked after everybody else tirelessly.
And i took it all for granted like the i am. didn't even text to see if she got there safe or was enjoying herself.
Ah mate, so sorry. Don't beat yourself up over it, please. I'm sure it's the least your mother would want (by the sounds of the sort of person she is).The patient was sent away with a diagnosis of anxiety attack.
The patient died early this morning.
The patient was my mother.
Ive been on here trying to take my mind off it. Because the more I think about it he more I realise I'm a w
ker who made the same mistake twice now.she saved up for a once in a lifetime holiday. The only time she has ever put herself first. She worked full time and still looked after everybody else tirelessly.
And i took it all for granted like the
i am. didn't even text to see if she got there safe or was enjoying herself.My thoughts with you.
Pesty said:
BlackVanDyke said:
Nearly lost my dad to pulmonary embolism twice (bad luck/clotting disorder) - been well educated about risks and causes since, so I'd at the very least expect a chest x-ray and possibly some sort of perfusion scan or other reliable diagnostic/rule-out tests. (not sure about what current standard of care is, my dad's stuff was in the 90s and early 00s so might have changed).
Hope the hypothetical patient is OK. If there's any concern that it really is pulmonary embolism then anybody caring for them will want to be pretty bloody vigilant and probably advocate quite strongly for testing as if/when a not-currently-too-bad PE goes 'wrong' it does so quickly and seriously.
Thank youHope the hypothetical patient is OK. If there's any concern that it really is pulmonary embolism then anybody caring for them will want to be pretty bloody vigilant and probably advocate quite strongly for testing as if/when a not-currently-too-bad PE goes 'wrong' it does so quickly and seriously.
The patient was sent away with a diagnosis of anxiety attack.
The patient died early this morning.
The patient was my mother.
Ive been on here trying to take my mind off it. Because the more I think about it he more I realise I'm a w
ker who made the same mistake twice now.she saved up for a once in a lifetime holiday. The only time she has ever put herself first. She worked full time and still looked after everybody else tirelessly.
And i took it all for granted like the
i am. didn't even text to see if she got there safe or was enjoying herself.No, you're not a w
ker, and any mistakes made were not primarily yours. She saved up for her holiday and she got it and presumably had a great time (I suspect it's no huge stretch to suggest you'd have heard about it otherwise; that seems to be generally true). A bad enough PE is beyond what ANYBODY can help, even if the person collapses directly in theatre, in front of a cardiologist who is already suited, booted and ready to go. There is and can never be any guarantee that any action you could possibly have taken would change the outcome. PEs are utterly s
t like that. BlackVanDyke said:
Oh, christ. I'm so desperately sorry.
No, you're not a wker, .
thank you but really I am. never once showed any gratitude and she did everything for us. i dont do the touchy feely stuff never have it was all i could bring myself to say hello when she came around.No, you're not a w
ker, . went through to the house and found an envelope with my daughters name on. she had bought her vouchers for driving lessons, she was not a wealthy woman.
we don't know if it was pe garbled phone call at 4 am from a nurse i think.
Really gutted for your family. That does sound like extremely bad luck, but this also smacks heavily of poor diagnosis and care. I'm only marginally educated on health but given the plane journey surely a blood clot should've been checked.
Make sure a head rolls for it. Papers. Lawyers. Compensation. etc. Do your best to try and not let that kind of careless nursing happen for someone else.
The wrong diagnosis wasn't "just" anxiety, it was more like a full-on panic attack, but heart problems should always be ruled out as a matter of process for a panic attack.
Make sure a head rolls for it. Papers. Lawyers. Compensation. etc. Do your best to try and not let that kind of careless nursing happen for someone else.
The wrong diagnosis wasn't "just" anxiety, it was more like a full-on panic attack, but heart problems should always be ruled out as a matter of process for a panic attack.
OP, I'm really sorry to hear about your mother.
A PE is a clot formed elsewhere in the body, often in the legs during inactivity: DVT following a long flight.
However!
A medical person can only assess based on what is presented at the time and not on hindsight. If your mother presented with chest pains, then an ECG and bloods would/should have been taken. PE has other symptoms as well as breathlessness.
I see a lot of panic attacks, and yes they can cause chest pains. It is POSSIBLE that when assessed your mother did not present with any symptoms of PE. It is also possible that a PE completely unconnected with the original complaint then occurred. My father died from PE whilst he was in hospital following a CVA (stroke).
It is of course possible that there was a fk up. It is impossible to tell from what you have said and the talk of "heads rolling" at this stage is not helpful.
Can you find out more about her treatment for her breathlessness and if tests (ECG etc) where undertaken?
And, OP, please don't blame yourself for anything. I'm sure your mother wouldn't want it.
(I am a Paramedic).
mattikake said:
Really gutted for your family. That does sound like extremely bad luck, but this also smacks heavily of poor diagnosis and care. I'm only marginally educated on health but given the plane journey surely a blood clot should've been checked.
Make sure a head rolls for it. Papers. Lawyers. Compensation. etc. Do your best to try and not let that kind of careless nursing happen for someone else.
The wrong diagnosis wasn't "just" anxiety, it was more like a full-on panic attack, but heart problems should always be ruled out as a matter of process for a panic attack.
OK, can we just step back a bit please?Make sure a head rolls for it. Papers. Lawyers. Compensation. etc. Do your best to try and not let that kind of careless nursing happen for someone else.
The wrong diagnosis wasn't "just" anxiety, it was more like a full-on panic attack, but heart problems should always be ruled out as a matter of process for a panic attack.
A PE is a clot formed elsewhere in the body, often in the legs during inactivity: DVT following a long flight.
However!
A medical person can only assess based on what is presented at the time and not on hindsight. If your mother presented with chest pains, then an ECG and bloods would/should have been taken. PE has other symptoms as well as breathlessness.
I see a lot of panic attacks, and yes they can cause chest pains. It is POSSIBLE that when assessed your mother did not present with any symptoms of PE. It is also possible that a PE completely unconnected with the original complaint then occurred. My father died from PE whilst he was in hospital following a CVA (stroke).
It is of course possible that there was a f
k up. It is impossible to tell from what you have said and the talk of "heads rolling" at this stage is not helpful.Can you find out more about her treatment for her breathlessness and if tests (ECG etc) where undertaken?
And, OP, please don't blame yourself for anything. I'm sure your mother wouldn't want it.
(I am a Paramedic).
JumboBeef said:
OK, can we just step back a bit please?
It is of course possible that there was a fk up. It is impossible to tell from what you have said and the talk of "heads rolling" at this stage is not helpful.
Can you find out more about her treatment for her breathlessness and if tests (ECG etc) where undertaken?
And, OP, please don't blame yourself for anything. I'm sure your mother wouldn't want it.
(I am a Paramedic).
Thank you.It is of course possible that there was a f
k up. It is impossible to tell from what you have said and the talk of "heads rolling" at this stage is not helpful.Can you find out more about her treatment for her breathlessness and if tests (ECG etc) where undertaken?
And, OP, please don't blame yourself for anything. I'm sure your mother wouldn't want it.
(I am a Paramedic).
The reason for thethread was to get some suggestions of possibilities so i mightbe able to ask questions. I will try to get an email address later so i can email the clinic. Not sure what that will achieve.
Communication is very difficult. In 4 days they will be in new zealand and i imagine i will be able to find out more then.
So far all i know is that she went to a c clinic and saw a dr a few hour later she died. I dont know exact timings or if any treatment was given. All i heard was she was told to rest because the doctor thought it was an anxiety attack.
She was not the sort to complain and would not have told us if she felt unwell so we wouldn't worry.
Edited by Pesty on Monday 18th February 12:58
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