Health insurance... Worth it, or...
Discussion
lainchers said:
I thought you were in the job. What about the private med schemes available via the federation?
They do a group insurance scheme, which I'm currently a member of, but this only covers life insurance etc. I'm going to be cancelling it soon as I don't use enough of the benefits and it'll help to pay towards health insurance.They don't do specific medical cover, sadly.
In my experience medical insurance either gets more expensive as you get older when you are more likely to need it, and/or the policy covers fewer illnesses with age. I chose to save and pay for my private heath care whe needed rather than to pay for insurance.
Quite often only the first/last stages of the care is required privately and for the major stuff you need the expertise of the NHS anyway. I've had a hernia done privately which I paid £2k and a similar amount for another minor operation.
It's one of those decisions only you can decide, but the fact it becomes much more expensive as the likelihood of you needing it approaches with age, was the influencing factor for me.
Quite often only the first/last stages of the care is required privately and for the major stuff you need the expertise of the NHS anyway. I've had a hernia done privately which I paid £2k and a similar amount for another minor operation.
It's one of those decisions only you can decide, but the fact it becomes much more expensive as the likelihood of you needing it approaches with age, was the influencing factor for me.
Phil. said:
In my experience medical insurance either gets more expensive as you get older when you are more likely to need it, and/or the policy covers fewer illnesses with age. I chose to save and pay for my private heath care whe needed rather than to pay for insurance.
Quite often only the first/last stages of the care is required privately and for the major stuff you need the expertise of the NHS anyway. I've had a hernia done privately which I paid £2k and a similar amount for another minor operation.
It's one of those decisions only you can decide, but the fact it becomes much more expensive as the likelihood of you needing it approaches with age, was the influencing factor for me.
That's the shame of it.Quite often only the first/last stages of the care is required privately and for the major stuff you need the expertise of the NHS anyway. I've had a hernia done privately which I paid £2k and a similar amount for another minor operation.
It's one of those decisions only you can decide, but the fact it becomes much more expensive as the likelihood of you needing it approaches with age, was the influencing factor for me.
NHS or private, 9 out of 10 will be the same surgeon.
Xerstead said:
The £200 cover for dental/optical, is that the excess as per the previous line, or is it the total (annual?) cover they are offering?
If it's the cover they are offering, based on my recent trips to the dentist, assuming you are working, £200 may not even cover the cost (what you pay,) for treatment on the NHS.
From what my dentist told me, they can charge NHS patients a maximum of ~£220 for work diagnosed at once.
For example; Have check-up, 3 fillings needed, 4 visits - Total cost to patient is limited to £220.
If different issues are subsequently diagnosed you could be charged ~£220 for work relating to each diagnosis.
The NHS stuff re fillings isn't correct:If it's the cover they are offering, based on my recent trips to the dentist, assuming you are working, £200 may not even cover the cost (what you pay,) for treatment on the NHS.
From what my dentist told me, they can charge NHS patients a maximum of ~£220 for work diagnosed at once.
For example; Have check-up, 3 fillings needed, 4 visits - Total cost to patient is limited to £220.
If different issues are subsequently diagnosed you could be charged ~£220 for work relating to each diagnosis.
"There are three standard charges for all NHS dental treatments:
Band 1 course of treatment – £18.00
This covers an examination, diagnosis (including X-rays), advice on how to prevent future problems, a scale and polish if needed, and application of fluoride varnish or fissure sealant.
Band 2 course of treatment – £49.00
This covers everything listed in Band 1 above, plus any further treatment such as fillings, root canal work or removal of teeth.
Band 3 course of treatment – £214.00
This covers everything listed in Bands 1 and 2 above, plus crowns, dentures and bridges."
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/dent...
It's possible that private health cover might not refund NHS charges.
swerni said:
As to your first comment re "loophole ridden", nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm one of those who has taken out far more than I've paid in or has been contributed on my behalf and the approvals process for treatment couldn't be easier.
Over the last 15 - 20 years I've never even had them query anything, let alone refuse to cover treatment.
I worked for a big company with Bupa cover and we had an issue where my wife was having an op which involved a GA and an overnight stay. Bupa approved it - in writing, which was unusual, normally they just gave a verbal OK.I'm one of those who has taken out far more than I've paid in or has been contributed on my behalf and the approvals process for treatment couldn't be easier.
Over the last 15 - 20 years I've never even had them query anything, let alone refuse to cover treatment.
On the day, the was told she wouldn't need a GA and could go home the same day.
Bill was around £1000, but Bupa would only pay half, as, although in-patient treatment was unlimited, out-patient treatment was limited to £500. So I was sent the balance of the bill to pay. Bupa's attitude was appalling - one person I spoke to said it didn't matter how much I appealed or who to, they wouldn't be paying the bill. That we'd saved them the cost of an overnight stay was lost on them. Eventually my employer paid.
In another case, one of my kids had the same operation twice, but the second time the hospital part of the bill was 2x the first time. So Bupa wouldn't pay it and I was stuck in the middle with the hospital demanding payment from me.
Also:
I'm impressed by the poster who was able to call a hospital and get a consultant appointment the next day. Maybe that varies depending on the density of private hospitals in your lcoation, but whenever we've done it, it's been at least a couple of weeks as the consultant is usually only doing private work one day a week.
And the rotator cuff op - my wife had one of those recently on the NHS. Done by keyhole surgery as a day patient. I can't remember the exact waiting time, but it wasn't a prolonged period.
When Bupa worked, though, it was good - on call (usually) and that was it.
We now have Simplyheath (they were Groupama) until last year - one of my colleagues claimed and every individual step has to be approved and they won't pay for anything to help (he needed a special surgical boot) which they don't regard as medically essential.
Edited by Deva Link on Saturday 20th April 22:34
Mattt said:
I even visited my consultant at his home once, his wife made me a cup of tea.
Don't get that on the NHS!
"Do we have to have patients visiting Gerald?"Don't get that on the NHS!
"Of course we do Mavis. You do want a new Range Rover this year, don't you? Now don't forget to smile for the nice cheque...I mean chap."
davepoth said:
"Of course we do Mavis. You do want a new Range Rover this year, don't you? Now don't forget to smile for the nice cheque...I mean chap."
Yes, the relationship between service provider and paying customer works best when they are paid after the work is completed to the customer's satisfaction. And vice-versa, of course.People confuse private health care and private health insurance.
Private health care is a great option to avoid queues and have more control and input into what happens.
Private health insurance is one means of paying for it. Generally it will be the most expensive way of paying for it, self funding being usually much cheaper. The only issue with that is that few people are organised enough to save the money and have it available should the requirement for it arrive.
Also, of course, if you are putting away a sum of money every month in the early years you won't have much in the pot if you do need it.
You will also find that if you are paying yourself the prices can be less than you see being bandied around when insurance is involved. My wife had a major operation in the private wing of an NHS hospital that cost us less than half the amount her insurance company was charged a few years earlier for roughly the same operation.
Private health care is a great option to avoid queues and have more control and input into what happens.
Private health insurance is one means of paying for it. Generally it will be the most expensive way of paying for it, self funding being usually much cheaper. The only issue with that is that few people are organised enough to save the money and have it available should the requirement for it arrive.
Also, of course, if you are putting away a sum of money every month in the early years you won't have much in the pot if you do need it.
You will also find that if you are paying yourself the prices can be less than you see being bandied around when insurance is involved. My wife had a major operation in the private wing of an NHS hospital that cost us less than half the amount her insurance company was charged a few years earlier for roughly the same operation.
WhereamI said:
Private health insurance is one means of paying for it. Generally it will be the most expensive way of paying for it, self funding being usually much cheaper. The only issue with that is that few people are organised enough to save the money and have it available should the requirement for it arrive.
The absolutely massive word there is "generally".Generally it would cheaper not to pay for buildings and contents insurance for your home(s) but few people would take such a gamble.
I was diagnosed with a major illness when I was at school. My parents both had comprehensive BUPA cover. I was referred to countless specialists, seeing them all on Friday afternoon golf time. I was sent for lots of tests NHS & private before being diagnosed. When I was diagnosed he then said that he won't see us privately and referred me to his NHS unit.
I have been at this unit ever since.
The care there is 2nd to none. If I need a hospital bed I call them and get a bed that day or the next, I may have to wait in a day room for the bed to be cleaned which is annoying but necessary. Always a private room with ensuite.
If I need to be referred I get an appointment within a timely manner. If I am an inpatient at the time I see them that week.
Food is served in a timely manner, if I want something else they will make it for me if they have the stuff available.
NHS is awesome.
years ago my employer took out PHI for everybody. For me my premium was increased and they wouldn't cover anything connected to my existing condition (which is everything internal).
I have been at this unit ever since.
The care there is 2nd to none. If I need a hospital bed I call them and get a bed that day or the next, I may have to wait in a day room for the bed to be cleaned which is annoying but necessary. Always a private room with ensuite.
If I need to be referred I get an appointment within a timely manner. If I am an inpatient at the time I see them that week.
Food is served in a timely manner, if I want something else they will make it for me if they have the stuff available.
NHS is awesome.
years ago my employer took out PHI for everybody. For me my premium was increased and they wouldn't cover anything connected to my existing condition (which is everything internal).
Deva Link said:
WhereamI said:
Private health insurance is one means of paying for it. Generally it will be the most expensive way of paying for it, self funding being usually much cheaper. The only issue with that is that few people are organised enough to save the money and have it available should the requirement for it arrive.
The absolutely massive word there is "generally".Generally it would cheaper not to pay for buildings and contents insurance for your home(s) but few people would take such a gamble.
Health in the UK is different though, because you already have insurance in the form of the NHS. So the health event that you can't afford is already covered. In practice private health works well to deal with the mid range stuff, for emergencies and life threatening stuff you'll probably be under NHS care anyway but getting your hip replacement done now rather than waiting a year is the stuff private health is good at.
WhereamI said:
You will also find that if you are paying yourself the prices can be less than you see being bandied around when insurance is involved. My wife had a major operation in the private wing of an NHS hospital that cost us less than half the amount her insurance company was charged a few years earlier for roughly the same operation.
I have found the opposite. My MRI scan was quoted at £1100 to a self funding individual - I checked as having no idea what they cost I thought it may be worth me 'doing a deal' and paying myself rather than going with BUPA and paying excess. BUPA got it for £750. Similarly my Transperineal biopsies cost BUPA far less than the quote to a self funding individual. I suspect a big private health insurance company carries a lot of clout. Why would they be happy to pay MORE than a private individual would?WhereamI said:
In principle it's best to insure against events you couldn't afford and to self insure against events you can. So for most people house insurance makes sense because they generally couldn't afford it if the house was wiped out.
Health in the UK is different though, because you already have insurance in the form of the NHS. So the health event that you can't afford is already covered. In practice private health works well to deal with the mid range stuff, for emergencies and life threatening stuff you'll probably be under NHS care anyway but getting your hip replacement done now rather than waiting a year is the stuff private health is good at.
I would agree with that. The thing I didn't realise until fairly recently, and I suspect many people are the same, is quite how hard you can drive the NHS yourself, and it seems easier if you're doing it for someone else - in my case that was one of my kids and an elderly person we were helping to look after. It's not so much waiting times, but for the stuff that fits into the mid-range that you describe, they seem to do everything they can to avoid actually doing anything. You don't have to accept that.Health in the UK is different though, because you already have insurance in the form of the NHS. So the health event that you can't afford is already covered. In practice private health works well to deal with the mid range stuff, for emergencies and life threatening stuff you'll probably be under NHS care anyway but getting your hip replacement done now rather than waiting a year is the stuff private health is good at.
Pugsey said:
I have found the opposite. My MRI scan was quoted at £1100 to a self funding individual - I checked as having no idea what they cost I thought it may be worth me 'doing a deal' and paying myself rather than going with BUPA and paying excess. BUPA got it for £750. Similarly my Transperineal biopsies cost BUPA far less than the quote to a self funding individual. I suspect a big private health insurance company carries a lot of clout. Why would they be happy to pay MORE than a private individual would?
I was surprised by the original comment too. One potential issue with Bupa (and I suppose all insurers) is that providers have to accept their rates so you could be limited in choice.Deva Link said:
Pugsey said:
I have found the opposite. My MRI scan was quoted at £1100 to a self funding individual - I checked as having no idea what they cost I thought it may be worth me 'doing a deal' and paying myself rather than going with BUPA and paying excess. BUPA got it for £750. Similarly my Transperineal biopsies cost BUPA far less than the quote to a self funding individual. I suspect a big private health insurance company carries a lot of clout. Why would they be happy to pay MORE than a private individual would?
I was surprised by the original comment too. One potential issue with Bupa (and I suppose all insurers) is that providers have to accept their rates so you could be limited in choice.Pugsey said:
WhereamI said:
You will also find that if you are paying yourself the prices can be less than you see being bandied around when insurance is involved. My wife had a major operation in the private wing of an NHS hospital that cost us less than half the amount her insurance company was charged a few years earlier for roughly the same operation.
I have found the opposite. My MRI scan was quoted at £1100 to a self funding individual - I checked as having no idea what they cost I thought it may be worth me 'doing a deal' and paying myself rather than going with BUPA and paying excess. BUPA got it for £750. Similarly my Transperineal biopsies cost BUPA far less than the quote to a self funding individual. I suspect a big private health insurance company carries a lot of clout. Why would they be happy to pay MORE than a private individual would?
I have health insurance for a long time and had to use it three times. Its fabulous when you need it.
Private. Make appointment with consultant, see him in person a few days later. Schedule tests for the next couple of days, see consultant again, get operation date days away, follow up care, all with the same consultant who now you have a personal relationship with.
NHS. See a random registrar after a 4 month wait. When you do spend half the day waiting to be seen. He says make another appointment to review in 6 months. See a different random registrar who treats you like a brand new case. Repeat.
Private. Make appointment with consultant, see him in person a few days later. Schedule tests for the next couple of days, see consultant again, get operation date days away, follow up care, all with the same consultant who now you have a personal relationship with.
NHS. See a random registrar after a 4 month wait. When you do spend half the day waiting to be seen. He says make another appointment to review in 6 months. See a different random registrar who treats you like a brand new case. Repeat.
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