PH 2014 Goals, Progress & Transformations Thread

[Hoofy]

chris watton said:

Thank you for that. I don't mind looking like an idiot on occasions (especially when I merit it via my own ignorance), as long as I get things right in the end...

I think the latter of your suggestions is more valid for me, as I now train 5 evenings a week.

I was worried that if I cut down even more on my diet, I may lose some of my recent gains.....

Well, continue with what you're doing now and see what happens by February.

[pilchardthecat]

Hoofy said:

chris watton said:

Hoofy said:

You said you were "running a calorie deficit diet". You might not be. But yeah, you've cut out crap so that's impossible.

chris watton said:

Forgot to add, 2 x teaspoons of Barley Grass Powder mixed with water twice a day too - that is foul...

Don't eat it then.

I know.. I just 'assumed' it must be a calorie deficit diet, as nothing I now eat are high in calories, are they?

When I started this, I assumed that, if I just had plenty of protein and other essential nutrients, I would use the fat on my body for the conversion to calories - is that wrong?

Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 10th December 16:53

Well, if you're not moving towards your goal, then yes, it's wrong.

I'll attempt to break it down with a guestimate:

2x coffees with whole milk and on teaspoon of sugar.
200 cals

2 x MaxiMuscle Promax Lean shakes per day, one before one after training.
300 cals

I small tin of Mackerel or sardines in olive oil
150 cals

Salad (lettuce, spinach, tomatoes, cucumber) with either chicken or seafood
200 cals

and occasionally 2 hard boiled eggs.
150 cals

I have recently started to add cottage cheese to my diet, but that started last week, as training has intensified and I felt I may need the extra.
100 cals

Before bed, I have Instantised Calcium Caseinate mixed in water (all shakes are mixed with water, not milk)
100 cals

If I am hungry, I have nuts.
300 cals

(I have the usual supplement capsules, multi vits, cod liver oil etc.)
150 cals

ETA - Forgot to add, 2 x teaspoons of Barley Grass Powder mixed with water twice a day too - that is foul...
-2000 cals as you vomit it all back up.

Well, you're probably eating 2000+ calories and you've probably forgotten incidentals like the biscuit during a meeting or the sweet you grabbed as you passed someone's desk. Forgotten calories still count.

the 'if im hungry i eat nuts' thing is dangerous. You can accidentally eat 2000 calories worth of nuts in about 5 minutes. They are the most calorie dense substance known to man, apart from plutonium probably. Eat nuts when you arent really hungry....!

[V8mate]

I think Hoofy's calorie estimations are a long way shy of reality.

I'd recommend that Chris uses MFP to tot up his intake.

I'd also warn against the sustainability of the approach. Spunking calories on 'fitness drinks' rather than proper food is tiresome. Given the kind of foods you're eating, do you really need them?

[Hoofy]

pilchardthecat said:

the 'if im hungry i eat nuts' thing is dangerous. You can accidentally eat 2000 calories worth of nuts in about 5 minutes. They are the most calorie dense substance known to man, apart from plutonium probably. Eat nuts when you arent really hungry....!

Yep!!

[Hoofy]

V8mate said:

I think Hoofy's calorie estimations are a long way shy of reality.

I'd recommend that Chris uses MFP to tot up his intake.

I'd also warn against the sustainability of the approach. Spunking calories on 'fitness drinks' rather than proper food is tiresome. Given the kind of foods you're eating, do you really need them?

As I say, guestimate. MFP is a good site for logging food intake.

[TheJimi]

I don't think the Hoof is THAT far out, although I'd expect the shakes to be closer to 200 than 300.

[V8mate]

Hoofy said:

V8mate said:

I think Hoofy's calorie estimations are a long way shy of reality.

I'd recommend that Chris uses MFP to tot up his intake.

I'd also warn against the sustainability of the approach. Spunking calories on 'fitness drinks' rather than proper food is tiresome. Given the kind of foods you're eating, do you really need them?

As I say, guestimate. MFP is a good site for logging food intake.

I've got the app on my ipad. I only used it for one day but was amazed how many products it knew about.

[chris watton]

pilchardthecat said:

the 'if im hungry i eat nuts' thing is dangerous. You can accidentally eat 2000 calories worth of nuts in about 5 minutes. They are the most calorie dense substance known to man, apart from plutonium probably. Eat nuts when you aren't really hungry....!

I did read up about nuts, and I learned that they are not very good at releasing their fats, most of it goes right through you. Also, I looked at a few studies that shown that test subjects never increased in weight.

V8mate said:

I think Hoofy's calorie estimations are a long way shy of reality.

I'd recommend that Chris uses MFP to tot up his intake.

I'd also warn against the sustainability of the approach. Spunking calories on 'fitness drinks' rather than proper food is tiresome. Given the kind of foods you're eating, do you really need them?

To be honest, I was never a big eater, and regarding food, I can take it or leave it. I have been having 2 protein shakes (the 'lean' low carbs variant) and a salad in the evening for over 6 months now, and I still enjoy the salad. I do change the type of salad, but always include the cherry vine tomato's and cucumber, and have either crayfish, prawns or chicken. I only have the little tin of mackerel/sardines on training days at lunchtime, but not all the time, perhaps twice a week if I feel very hungry.

I genuinely thought I had cut out most of the fat (crap, as I called it) from my diet! (apart from my morning coffees...).

I did read a little when I started, so I cut processed foods out completely, and stopped having bread about three months ago.

My weight kept coming off. Until now - am stuck at around 12 stone 4-8, depending on time of day. At only 5'7", that still seems a tad heavy, even if I have increased muscle mass, I would have thought.

I only started having cottage cheese with my evening salad last week, as I have recently intensified the training. Should I stop having this?

As for that ghastly green barley powder, I have threw the rest in the bin - it was like drinking a swamp!

And finally, thank you all for the great advice (especially Hoofy), it is very much appreciated.

ETA - Just joined MFP, it suggests I should consume no more than 1,200 Calories / Day, and burn 1,550 Calories / Week.

Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 10th December 21:09

[Art0ir]

chris watton said:

To be honest, I was never a big eater, and regarding food, I can take it or leave it. I have been having 2 protein shakes (the 'lean' low carbs variant) and a salad in the evening for over 6 months now, and I still enjoy the salad. I do change the type of salad, but always include the cherry vine tomato's and cucumber, and have either crayfish, prawns or chicken. I only have the little tin of mackerel/sardines on training days at lunchtime, but not all the time, perhaps twice a week if I feel very hungry.

I genuinely thought I had cut out most of the fat (crap, as I called it) from my diet! (apart from my morning coffees...).

I did read a little when I started, so I cut processed foods out completely, and stopped having bread about three months ago.

My weight kept coming off. Until now - am stuck at around 12 stone 4-8, depending on time of day. At only 5'7", that still seems a tad heavy, even if I have increased muscle mass, I would have thought.

I only started having cottage cheese with my evening salad last week, as I have recently intensified the training. Should I stop having this?

As for that ghastly green barley powder, I have threw the rest in the bin - it was like drinking a swamp!

And finally, thank you all for the great advice (especially Hoofy), it is very much appreciated.

ETA - Just joined MFP, it suggests I should consume no more than 1,200 Calories / Day, and burn 1,550 Calories / Week.

Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 10th December 21:09

What about trying 20 minutes of cardio in the morning before breakfast? It's controversial in some circles, but it worked for me. Hey, try it for a fortnight and see if it helps. If not or you start losing muscle mass, try something else.

[Hoofy]

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10...

[chris watton]

Art0ir said:

What about trying 20 minutes of cardio in the morning before breakfast? It's controversial in some circles, but it worked for me. Hey, try it for a fortnight and see if it helps. If not or you start losing muscle mass, try something else.

Will try that

Don't have breakfast, though, just a coffee...

[pilchardthecat]

chris watton said:

pilchardthecat said:

the 'if im hungry i eat nuts' thing is dangerous. You can accidentally eat 2000 calories worth of nuts in about 5 minutes. They are the most calorie dense substance known to man, apart from plutonium probably. Eat nuts when you aren't really hungry....!

I did read up about nuts, and I learned that they are not very good at releasing their fats, most of it goes right through you. Also, I looked at a few studies that shown that test subjects never increased in weight.

I'd like to see that study, because i'm 99.9% certain that's complete gonads. The human digestive system is extremely efficient, particularly when it comes to extracting fat from foods, since in evolutionary terms fats were the difference between starvation and survival.

[chris watton]

pilchardthecat said:

I'd like to see that study, because i'm 99.9% certain that's complete gonads. The human digestive system is extremely efficient, particularly when it comes to extracting fat from foods, since in evolutionary terms fats were the difference between starvation and survival.

Here are a couple, not sure how accurate they are, though:

http://www.drbriffa.com/2008/10/06/why-the-evidenc...

http://dietrebel.com/are-nuts-fattening/

[pilchardthecat]

chris watton said:

pilchardthecat said:

I'd like to see that study, because i'm 99.9% certain that's complete gonads. The human digestive system is extremely efficient, particularly when it comes to extracting fat from foods, since in evolutionary terms fats were the difference between starvation and survival.

Here are a couple, not sure how accurate they are, though:

http://www.drbriffa.com/2008/10/06/why-the-evidenc...

http://dietrebel.com/are-nuts-fattening/

Hmmm, those are just web pages. I was expecting a peer reviewed medical study!

Dont get me wrong, there are health benefits from eating nuts, and there are statistical studies that show people eating nuts in their diet not gaining weight, but these generally conclude that because nuts are pretty good at providing satiety, people who eat them regularly tend to eat less other stuff (even though 4 of those studies do not explicitly control calorie levels).

There are also studies that show substituting carbohydrate rich foods for nuts helps you lose weight, but again these are calorie neutral studies, and the assertion is that it's the extra fat in the nuts improving liver function and hence the mobilisation of FFAs, thus improving the lipid profile.

This is a good one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC325768...

Until you get to the disclaimer at the bottom .... "The author has received research funding from the California Walnut Commission, Sacramento, CA"

[chris watton]

pilchardthecat said:

Hmmm, those are just web pages. I was expecting a peer reviewed medical study!

Dont get me wrong, there are health benefits from eating nuts, and there are statistical studies that show people eating nuts in their diet not gaining weight, but these generally conclude that because nuts are pretty good at providing satiety, people who eat them regularly tend to eat less other stuff (even though 4 of those studies do not explicitly control calorie levels).

There are also studies that show substituting carbohydrate rich foods for nuts helps you lose weight, but again these are calorie neutral studies, and the assertion is that it's the extra fat in the nuts improving liver function and hence the mobilisation of FFAs, thus improving the lipid profile.

This is a good one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC325768...

Until you get to the disclaimer at the bottom .... "The author has received research funding from the California Walnut Commission, Sacramento, CA"

I am more than happy to be proved wrong in assumptions I have from reading stuff up from the net - I am a complete 'noob' when it comes to food and diets (At the beginning of this year, my lunch consisted of pork pies and sausage rolls!). this is a new learning experience for me - when I first started weight training at 13-19, diet wasn't important, but at 48, it is.

I have changed a couple of things, starting from today - no sugar at all in coffee, and no salad dressing. Plus I just did 10 minutes hard peddling on the bike rollers.

I worked out my calory intake last night, and this is it, excluding the protein shakes:

Coffee with whole milk, no sugar – 28
Banana – 89
Boiled egg – 155
Prawns – 89 per 100g
Crayfish – 87 per 100g
Caesar Salad Dressing – 528 per 100g
cottage cheese – 98 per 100g

Now I can see why I haven't shifted the last bit of fat....

Edited by chris watton on Thursday 11th December 10:03

[pilchardthecat]

chris watton said:

I am more than happy to be proved wrong in assumptions I have from reading stuff up from the - I am a complete 'noob' when it comes to food and diets (At the beginning of this year, my lunch consisted of pork pies and sausage rolls!). this is a new learning experience for me - when I first started weight training at 17-19, diet wasn't important, but at 48, it is.

I have changed a couple of things, starting from today - no sugar at all in coffee, and no salad dressing. Plus I just did 10 minutes hard peddling on the bike rollers.

I worked out my calory intake last night, and this is it, excluding the protein shakes:

Coffee with whole milk, no sugar – 28
Banana – 89
Boiled egg – 155
Prawns – 89 per 100g
Crayfish – 87 per 100g
Caesar Salad Dressing – 528 per 100g
cottage cheese – 98 per 100g

Now I can see why I haven't shifted the last bit of fat....

I dont think your diet is too bad, and feel free to eat nuts, just be careful how many you eat!

And contrary to popular belief, red meat doesnt kill you. I've been down to 5-6% body fat several times, and havent been above 10% in about 3 years. If i really want to get lean (5-6) i eat extra cows and slightly less red wine

[Hoofy]

Tell you what, as well as your current intake, eat the equivalent of 1000 calories of nuts a day and see how you get on in 2 months' time.

[chris watton]

Hoofy said:

Tell you what, as well as your current intake, eat the equivalent of 1000 calories of nuts a day and see how you get on in 2 months' time.

I think I will leave nuts for now. I know my protein shake is under 600 calories per day (127cals per scoop @ 4 scoops per day), so I should now be under my daily 2000 cal per day goal - but will it have adverse consequences for my weight training...

[Hoofy]

chris watton said:

I think I will leave nuts for now. I know my protein shake is under 600 calories per day (127cals per scoop @ 4 scoops per day), so I should now be under my daily 2000 cal per day goal - but will it have adverse consequences for my weight training...

I'd increase it to just over 2000 and let the muscles do their thing. It's slower but more satisfying as I've said. Plus International Refeed Day is in 14 days.

[chris watton]

Hoofy said:

I'd increase it to just over 2000 and let the muscles do their thing. It's slower but more satisfying as I've said. Plus International Refeed Day is in 14 days.

I should have asked all of these dietary questions back in May, when I started, would have been 12 stone by now..

My aim was/is to get to 12 stone and then start to eat 'normally' again (but this time, without the 'crap'), while at the same time continue training 5 times a week to add more lean muscle..

ETA - would this protein powder be better for me?

http://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/impact-w...

Edited by chris watton on Thursday 11th December 12:37