The Science of Exercise
Discussion
TameRacingDriver said:
Will doing single-set training done twice a week be as good as mutliple set training done twice as frequently?
Short answer...yes, long answer relating to muscle type 1 and 2 fibres, more complex, along with specificationHaven't read the article, but using volume to overload will always achieve something.
Here is a great link to how the giants of the pre steroid age did it, there was a great article by Mike Starr who talked of squatting 100lbs and making gains with that with century sets over one winter stuck with no wieghts...but can;'t find it.
http://ditillo2.blogspot.co.uk/
there are hundreds of old articles that have been uploaded to The Tight Tan Slacks of Dezso Ban
scroll to0 the bottom for them all
didelydoo said:
Volume and frequency are limited due to time constraints and recovery. Intensity is not.
If you work out intensely, then you physically won't be able to do so with large volume, and frequency is limited by recovery. Many great bodies have been made this way- and it's generally the modern approach to bodybuilding, at least with the top UK guys at present. Muscle adapts to the stress applied, the largest stress comes from intensity. Get stronger across the varying rep ranges, across all the movements, and you'll grow- simple as that.
It's the most effective way I've found to train, for hypertrophy, by quite a margin.
If you do 100x0, or 10x 100, you'll be getting intensity, different sorts, that comes. One can track better with volume than anything elseIf you work out intensely, then you physically won't be able to do so with large volume, and frequency is limited by recovery. Many great bodies have been made this way- and it's generally the modern approach to bodybuilding, at least with the top UK guys at present. Muscle adapts to the stress applied, the largest stress comes from intensity. Get stronger across the varying rep ranges, across all the movements, and you'll grow- simple as that.
It's the most effective way I've found to train, for hypertrophy, by quite a margin.
chris watton said:
Halb said:
If you do 100x0, or 10x 100, you'll be getting intensity, different sorts, that comes. One can track better with volume than anything else
Or just mix rep ranges, best of both worlds. Wouldn't go as far as 100 reps in a set, though...I currently like the 5/4/3/2/1 because it suits currentneeds...but I'm gonna add in 100/500 for specific exercises.
I think mcelliot is a great example of the large 'set' format.
TameRacingDriver said:
I'm glad you agree I'm not totally wasting my time though :-)
If you're doing something, you're never wasting time. I used to have a 20-30 rep routine when I was pushed for time, for intensity, there was nothing that touched it, apart from the circuits I do, which are sort of similar.this being one
https://www.t-nation.com/training/lose-fat-stay-st...
didelydoo said:
Only to a point- then there comes a time when you can't add more volume. Like wise with frequency. The only other variable left to change is intensity. When weights get to a certain level, volume and frequency will become limiting factors- intensity can always be pushed.
It's a slidey scale, and the fulcrum moves as to what can be done and goals etc, everything can be pushed, those three variable to different degrees. Volume is the one thing that can always be pushed. Either by an extra rep, or extra plate. Intensity is a part of this.Edited by Halb on Wednesday 28th February 10:39
LordGrover said:
The issue as I see it, especially with newbs, is defining 'intensity'.
Most people just don't know when they're working at 65% or 90% or 100% effort.
This is a good point and what I was trying to hit upon earlier. intensity is just not measurable for a lot of people in the gym, a friend who camer to the gym with me just didn't wanna work hard and soon stopped.Most people just don't know when they're working at 65% or 90% or 100% effort.
It's difficult for most to gauge, as is activating muscles.
THere was a brilliant programme on last week about strength training, low weight high weight, they both are intense, the low weight has a more burn effect that lasts longer, so the people in the study didn't like it. But they both achieved the goal of strength.
Which is what made me start looking at the old routines again, Herschel Walker et al.
Edited by Halb on Wednesday 28th February 10:42
LordGrover said:
Sounds a lot like we're heading towards Max Contraction training here. 
When I tried it, 'curling' 50kg dumbbell was all well and good, but in the end had very little effect on me.
Never heard of it, just loooked. Sounds like isometrics.When I tried it, 'curling' 50kg dumbbell was all well and good, but in the end had very little effect on me.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/isometrics-for-m...
Which can, from what I've read gain real strength.
although in my head, I was thinking of 20-100 reps, not 1
didelydoo said:
Pushing for that extra rep, or doing the set with that little more weight would fall under intensity IMO- you're trying harder. Volume is simply adding in more reps/sets, not making them harder- that's why it's limiting- you can just keep adding more volume. But keeping volume set, you can add more intensity in.
I see how there is a slight cross over with volume/intensity- but pushing harder to get the extra rep, using methods like drop sets, forced reps, rest pause etc or adding more weight and keeping reps the same isn't adjusting volume, but increasing intensity.
Originally I wrote intensity is limiting, but it's not, not really, the same as volume, they are interlinked. I don't mean exactly pushing for that rep, but as you described before, waiting a period of time and then doing the rep, in your pause method, then one can always add more, and if you know enough to wait the right time, then intensity is not gonna go away, not that that is that such a bad thing. I see how there is a slight cross over with volume/intensity- but pushing harder to get the extra rep, using methods like drop sets, forced reps, rest pause etc or adding more weight and keeping reps the same isn't adjusting volume, but increasing intensity.
You can't always add more intensity, you can reach peak intensity/effort and then that's it, one doesn't explode, though uit can be maintained, but one can always add more volume. OK I see what you're saying with drop sets now. I don't use them, or haven't for year anyway, but that system isn't any more 'intense' that say a century set at the right weight. Horse for courses.
I'm probably not able to get my thoughts across as clearly as I like, I'm not a hundred miles away from your position, save for volume doesn't have a cap.
edit
I also edited that post several times, the one you quotes about the scale because I wasn't able to articulate clearly enough what I wanted to say. Stil didn't get there in the end but perhaps close enough.
Edited by Halb on Wednesday 28th February 10:57
didelydoo said:
Week on week, intensity should give you strength gains given appropriate recovery- peak intensity will be slightly higher than the previous week, though it will still just feel like max effort, so won't feel more intense then before. Volume is surely capped by time restraints?
I also view intensity as intrinsically linked to load- it's got to be heavy, to be intense, rather than anything over say 15 reps. If you're doing 100 reps, it'll be hard, but not intense- I don't think it's possible to maintain intensity well after 10 reps TBH. A bit like sprinting.
I see what you mean though- there's cross over. I like an intense, heavy set, but usually finish up with more volume on the little things- pushdowns, curls and such like.
ither way- doing something consistently for time, is the main thing people should be concerned about
Right, time restraints, I understand that now. Funnily enough back when I worked for an IT firm and wanted to train in lunch, I used my 1 set 20 rep routine (squat, snatch, bench, press, clean, dedlift etc), it was hard, and what I deem as intense, those first 10 reps may not feel like anything but that changes, and it becomes willpower, like widowmkaer squats. Of course as strength increase with the amount of fibres you can recruit and how much your cns gets smashed then recovery becomes more, so frequency drops but then you can still push forward.I also view intensity as intrinsically linked to load- it's got to be heavy, to be intense, rather than anything over say 15 reps. If you're doing 100 reps, it'll be hard, but not intense- I don't think it's possible to maintain intensity well after 10 reps TBH. A bit like sprinting.
I see what you mean though- there's cross over. I like an intense, heavy set, but usually finish up with more volume on the little things- pushdowns, curls and such like.
ither way- doing something consistently for time, is the main thing people should be concerned about
One day, if you fancy it, try 500 Hindu squats, or just air squaTS, AND tell me what you think.
ultimately though, yeah, consistency is key.
Herscehl walker would get up early in the morning to do his 1,000s of press-ups so he had the time
ORD said:
And there’s a fair bit of science to suggest that anything too light (think much over 20 reps) won’t trigger substantial strength gains or hypertrophy, at least in trained lifters. 100 reps is cardio.
As for Herschel Walker, he gets up early to do his first round of injections for the day. Obvious juicer is very obvious.
read moreAs for Herschel Walker, he gets up early to do his first round of injections for the day. Obvious juicer is very obvious.
I don't mean that facetiously.
The blogspot I posted is one of the best, if not the best repository of lifting knowledge on the web.
Bill Starr knows a thing or two, and he knows long sets build strength, he's not a cardio guy or an inexperienced lifter either.
Edited by Halb on Wednesday 28th February 13:47
Well we'll just disagree. Can't find the article now, but Starr was stuck in a place over winter with a s
tty garage gym with (can barely recall), 100 pounds of weight or something similar, he arranged his sets respectively and got stronger
I also follow (and have followed) an old wrestling air squat system myself, which I know delivers strength/power.
tty garage gym with (can barely recall), 100 pounds of weight or something similar, he arranged his sets respectively and got strongerI also follow (and have followed) an old wrestling air squat system myself, which I know delivers strength/power.
didelydoo said:
I never write a particular thing off, because, at some point, everything has it's place. There are things I used to think silly, but as I grew my knowledge, I can see how they have their uses- perhaps not mainstays or cornerstones, but useful none the less. I love pressing in the smith machine now for instance.
That's very true. I never write anything off nowI used to dismiss the grease the groove thing and other things, the smith is decent for calf work and other things.
edit
I think that time is probably also the factor, old timers were strong, with epic sets, they had the time, they didn't have Nintendo.
Or one could be like Charles Bronson and just stay indoors for 23 hours and get on those press-ups and bowel cleans
Edited by Halb on Wednesday 28th February 22:48
I have more faith in the 10,000 hour rule, than genetics.
anyhoo
how to empty one's bowels
Secrets of Bodyweight Manipulation, Part Four - J.M.Blakley
http://ditillo2.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/secrets-of-...
High Rep Training - Dick Conner & Dave Wedding
http://ditillo2.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/high-rep-tr...
High, High-Rep Training - Greg Merritt
http://ditillo2.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/high-high-r...
anyhoo
how to empty one's bowels
Secrets of Bodyweight Manipulation, Part Four - J.M.Blakley
http://ditillo2.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/secrets-of-...
High Rep Training - Dick Conner & Dave Wedding
http://ditillo2.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/high-rep-tr...
High, High-Rep Training - Greg Merritt
http://ditillo2.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/high-high-r...
popeyewhite said:
10,000 hr 'theory of practice'. Not sure it applies to bodybuilding/powerlifting anyway. The original work, done by a chap called Erikson, was based on research looking at whether musicians were born expert or developed expertise through practice. There were lots of 'rules' to Erikson's theory, most probably wouldn't transfer to how well a body physically adapts to exercise. It's an interesting concept though Halb... .
It's an interesting theory. From what I see, the work ethic, or shoving out everything else and training is the reason of existence, this is what gets a person to elite level. The epic wrestler, Aleksandr Karelin had an answer for how he won 3 (should have been four, but yanks) golds at consecutive games, "I train every day of my life as they have never trained a day in theirs" This is where the real genetics come into play I think, with people starting their journey on the spectrum. Karelin started off as a useless lump, but his dedication (like the rower, Redgrave) to sacrifice his life basically led to success, Not sure it applies to bodybuilding/powerlifting anyway. The original work, done by a chap called Erikson, was based on research looking at whether musicians were born expert or developed expertise through practice. There were lots of 'rules' to Erikson's theory, most probably wouldn't transfer to how well a body physically adapts to exercise. It's an interesting concept though Halb... .I've seen this in the wrestling gym (and not just there), a single-minded brain is the best genetics to have.
best way to set sets for plyo jumps
Effect of cluster sets on plyometric jump power.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24942176Ben Greenfield Stem Cells, Anti Aging and Longevity
https://youtu.be/bjytJhxGFvsSiim Land Published on 21 Aug 2018
Ben Greenfield chats on ketones, stem cells and stuff
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC44502...
does anyone use a mouthgaurd or armourlite or similar?
does anyone use a mouthgaurd or armourlite or similar?
Jeff Nippard Published on 14 Apr 2019
Supercompensation: Advanced Training For Max Muscle Gain (Science Explained)
https://youtu.be/bxr2EAaTxps
Supercompensation: Advanced Training For Max Muscle Gain (Science Explained)
https://youtu.be/bxr2EAaTxps
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