Advice on cutting / getting shredded!

[Eleven]

Warnie said:

Why would I need a dietician for replacing their cereal with eggs/ham/greek yogurt etc, and for cutting back on sugary snacks and processed food?

You probably wouldn't.

However, you said a couple of pages back:

Warnie said:

On this subject, I'm trying to convince the family to eat a low carb, high fat diet as to me it's the best way of keeping the pounds off whilst adding muscle

Which is something entirely different. If you feed your children a low carb, high fat diet you will likely induce ketosis which is not necessarily good for kids and not something that I would personally choose to do unless trying to counter an underlying medical condition, and then not without expert guidance.

[BenM77]

Eleven said:

Now, YOU might look like a god with 10% body fat and YOU might achieve that whilst eating everything that crosses your path. Most people cannot, and need to make choices. For many of those people, a keto diet is easier to pursue than a calorie controlled "conventional" diet.

Not saying it doesn't work. I guess if low bf% is your thing then it is a useful tool for you.

[Halb]

Warnie said:

Exactly, and yes they have fruit every day, mainly berries and apples.
I feel like I've just walked into a bar and ordered a soft drink with the stick I'm getting for getting my kids to eat proper food

Then it sounds great. A good rotation of fruits, berries, bananas, citrus.
I think it was just that we all read it as a low carb diet, instead of a 'no-over processed st' diet.
Treats are good for kids too. A life without choccy as a kid...

[jimbobsimmonds]

I started a bit of HIIT after training about 6 weeks ago. Diet remains more or less the same (in fact I've been out on the beer 5 times so diet is worse, I'm starting to doubt the negative affect of a session every now and then is as severe as people make out at least).

My routing is as follows: 25 minutes total:

Constant bike output of 150W and on 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18 minutes I up to hit 500W for 30 seconds. Then on minute 22 I aim for max output (around 800W atm) then cool down until 25 minutes is up.

It hasn't affected my strength in anyway and I "feel" fitter than I did, and for the first time in years in the midday sun, if you squint, and really concentrate, you can see the blurry outline of a 6 pack

I have a bodpod session this time next week. Be interesting to see what the numbers say but I have definitely lost quite a bit of weight around the middrift (jeans are loose now...). Strangely I am no lighter.

Anyway, things are going in the right direction.

Edited by jimbobsimmonds on Friday 21st March 16:22

[Eleven]

jimbobsimmonds said:

I have definitely lost quite a bit of weight around the middrift (jeans are loose now...). Strangely I am no lighter.

You've gained muscle and lost fat. It's not unusual to GAIN weight when you hit the gym, whilst still losing fat.

[jimbobsimmonds]

Eleven said:

jimbobsimmonds said:

I have definitely lost quite a bit of weight around the middrift (jeans are loose now...). Strangely I am no lighter.

You've gained muscle and lost fat. It's not unusual to GAIN weight when you hit the gym, whilst still losing fat.

I realised this. I am already quite well trained from a strength point of view, been lifting non stop for 5 years or so now so it's amazing to see how quickly adding a bit of extra something into my workout is having such a positive effect. I suspect the muscle is in the thighs and arse though, as my lifts have not suffered but my strength has not gone up.

[Eleven]

jimbobsimmonds said:

Eleven said:

jimbobsimmonds said:

I have definitely lost quite a bit of weight around the middrift (jeans are loose now...). Strangely I am no lighter.

You've gained muscle and lost fat. It's not unusual to GAIN weight when you hit the gym, whilst still losing fat.

I realised this. I am already quite well trained from a strength point of view, been lifting non stop for 5 years or so now so it's amazing to see how quickly adding a bit of extra something into my workout is having such a positive effect. I suspect the muscle is in the thighs and arse though, as my lifts have not suffered but my strength has not gone up.

Have your leg lifts, like back squats, not improved? You DO train your legs right?

[jimbobsimmonds]

Eleven said:

jimbobsimmonds said:

Eleven said:

jimbobsimmonds said:

I have definitely lost quite a bit of weight around the middrift (jeans are loose now...). Strangely I am no lighter.

You've gained muscle and lost fat. It's not unusual to GAIN weight when you hit the gym, whilst still losing fat.

I realised this. I am already quite well trained from a strength point of view, been lifting non stop for 5 years or so now so it's amazing to see how quickly adding a bit of extra something into my workout is having such a positive effect. I suspect the muscle is in the thighs and arse though, as my lifts have not suffered but my strength has not gone up.

Have your leg lifts, like back squats, not improved? You DO train your legs right?

LMAO. I have rather good legs naturally due to being obese for 18 years. Carrying 20 odd stone around all day does boost leg strength.

But yes, I do train legs. I don't dedicate a whole day to them but I give up 4 or 5 sets of heavy weights everytime I go the gym. Same with my core.

And yes, there has been a 10% increase in leg strength.

[goldblum]

Eleven said:

jimbobsimmonds said:

I have definitely lost quite a bit of weight around the middrift (jeans are loose now...). Strangely I am no lighter.

You've gained muscle and lost fat. It's not unusual to GAIN weight when you hit the gym, whilst still losing fat.

Actually it's more likely he's gained fat. Around the glutes probably.

If he's already strength trained and a) not changed any workout variables, and b) not training for muscular hypertrophy how d'you imagine he's made lean gains?

It's quite possible to lose adipose tissue from one part of the body quicker than another (genetics), although obviously you can't choose which part. It's also very easy to start doing short cardio sessions and put on weight as you eat/drink a bit more after a workout. The trick is, of course, to diet at the same time as you do your new cardio sessions.

[jimbobsimmonds]

goldblum said:

Eleven said:

jimbobsimmonds said:

I have definitely lost quite a bit of weight around the middrift (jeans are loose now...). Strangely I am no lighter.

You've gained muscle and lost fat. It's not unusual to GAIN weight when you hit the gym, whilst still losing fat.

Actually it's more likely he's gained fat. Around the glutes probably.

If he's already strength trained and a) not changed any workout variables, and b) not training for muscular hypertrophy how d'you imagine he's made lean gains?

It's quite possible to lose adipose tissue from one part of the body quicker than another (genetics), although obviously you can't choose which part. It's also very easy to start doing short cardio sessions and put on weight as you eat/drink a bit more after a workout. The trick is, of course, to diet at the same time as you do your new cardio sessions.

the diet is spot on exactly the same as before. As is the weight training everywhere else.

I have the bodpod next week and a better set of scales. Should be interesting! Ill publish the results as and when.

[Eleven]

goldblum said:

If he's already strength trained and a) not changed any workout variables, and b) not training for muscular hypertrophy how d'you imagine he's made lean gains?

It only became apparent that he'd been doing strength training a couple of posts later.

His post implied that he'd gone from noting to doing HIIT. Had that been the case it is conceivable that he'd gain lean mass whilst losing fat, a possibility that his description of no weight loss but smaller waist would support.

[goldblum]

Eleven said:

goldblum said:

If he's already strength trained and a) not changed any workout variables, and b) not training for muscular hypertrophy how d'you imagine he's made lean gains?

It only became apparent that he'd been doing strength training a couple of posts later.

His post implied that he'd gone from noting to doing HIIT. Had that been the case it is conceivable that he'd gain lean mass whilst losing fat, a possibility that his description of no weight loss but smaller waist would support.

He could have lost some fat, but there's no way he'd have put on lean mass from the introduction of HIIT. Was this what you meant?

OP - It's entirely possible you could have lost some weight but fluctuations in bodily fluid levels mask the effect if you've only lost 1-3 kg.

[Eleven]

goldblum said:

Eleven said:

goldblum said:

If he's already strength trained and a) not changed any workout variables, and b) not training for muscular hypertrophy how d'you imagine he's made lean gains?

It only became apparent that he'd been doing strength training a couple of posts later.

His post implied that he'd gone from noting to doing HIIT. Had that been the case it is conceivable that he'd gain lean mass whilst losing fat, a possibility that his description of no weight loss but smaller waist would support.

He could have lost some fat, but there's no way he'd have put on lean mass from the introduction of HIIT. Was this what you meant?

If he was sedentary and started HIIT he would gain lean mass (some, not a lot). There was no mention of any exercise at all in his first post, it implied zero to HIIT.

[goldblum]

Eleven said:

If he was sedentary and started HIIT he would gain lean mass (some, not a lot).

Can you explain the mechanism involved by which this might happen?

[Halb]

jimbobsimmonds said:

I have the bodpod next week and a better set of scales. Should be interesting! Ill publish the results as and when.

I've found a place that'll do bodpod and stuff for free...it's just four hours away.

[Digger]

Halb said:

jimbobsimmonds said:

I have the bodpod next week and a better set of scales. Should be interesting! Ill publish the results as and when.

I've found a place that'll do bodpod and stuff for free...it's just four hours away.

Ooh I'm all ears! Care to spill the beans, or send me a PM? I'm about ready to have a bodpod session myself.

[Eleven]

goldblum said:

Eleven said:

If he was sedentary and started HIIT he would gain lean mass (some, not a lot).

Can you explain the mechanism involved by which this might happen?

No. But if he starts using muscles that were previously less used they will grow. I am assuming you disagree.

[goldblum]

Eleven said:

But if he starts using muscles that were previously less used they will grow.

In order to make muscles grow resistance exercises are needed, usually 3-4 sets in the 8-12 repetition range.

If cardiovascular HIIT is performed on leg muscles that are not used to it they will initially be sore, then they will adapt (training principle - the exercise will seem 'easier'), and other physiological changes will take place. But they will not grow. There is not enough resistance to force muscle growth.

Over longer time it's very possible for a muscle to adapt to very high repetition exercise - think of people who've only taken up serious cycling six months previously and already have larger, more toned calves - but the timeframe for this is much longer than jimbobsimmons has been doing HIIT for: People think this involves changes in muscle fibre.

[Eleven]

goldblum said:

Eleven said:

But if he starts using muscles that were previously less used they will grow.

In order to make muscles grow resistance exercises are needed, usually 3-4 sets in the 8-12 repetition range.

If cardiovascular HIIT is performed on leg muscles that are not used to it they will initially be sore, then they will adapt (training principle - the exercise will seem 'easier'), and other physiological changes will take place. But they will not grow. There is not enough resistance to force muscle growth.

Over longer time it's very possible for a muscle to adapt to very high repetition exercise - think of people who've only taken up serious cycling six months previously and already have larger, more toned calves - but the timeframe for this is much longer than jimbobsimmons has been doing HIIT for: People think this involves changes in muscle fibre.

Personal experience makes me doubt what you are saying. However the discussion is entirely academic because the poster we are discussing has elaborated upon his situation and he has not gone from zero to HIIT.

[goldblum]

Eleven said:

Personal experience makes me doubt what you are saying.

What experience is that then?