Body fat target.
Discussion
Eleven said:
goldblum said:
Liquid Tuna said:
goldblum said:
Westy Carl said:
Slight thread hijack (sorry), but can anyone explain in basic terms what a keto diet is and it's advantages / disadvantages.
Main disadvantage is that fat oxidation is not as efficient as carbohydrate oxidation. This means that if you exercise above 50-60% intensity (in other words your exercise becomes aerobic) you'll need carbs to perform well. If you're dieting just sitting around without doing much exercise then cutting right back on the carbs and using fat for energy does work.I find that my anaerobic performance is slightly less when using keto, but I am better able to deal with cardio and my endurance is better. For example on a 20+ mile road bike session I need to be very careful about carb input or I will blow up, on keto this isn't an issue. I have attributed this to easier access to body fat as fuel.
For the sake of accuracy I should add that I have just received my diet protocol for the coming 14 days and it's not a ketogenic diet. It is essentially carb cycling. On non-training days I am eating sub-50g carbs. Carbs are quite limited - brown rice, quinoa, new pots, sweet potato.
Okay, so another two weeks have passed.
The past two weeks I have been carb cycling, having 60g of rice or quinoa on training days in the evening. I have also been more precise with food weights.
Today I had gained 0.5% body fat and lost some lean mass. I weighed in at 91kg. I had gained fat on my calves and top of knee, suggesting sleep problems - quite accurately as it happens. The sleep problems are probably due to the reduction in magnesium intake, so I will be upping that again.
However despite being more lardy and less muscular I am looking progressively better. My muscles are more pumped and my complexion very good. This is the effect of carbs - keto tends to make one look flatter and less fresh. When using a keto diet I used to go back on the carbs and blow up like a balloon, that hasn't happened now because of the type and timing of the carbs. I am a bit softer, but not excessively so.
As I said in previous posts I did not set out to become more "built" but that's certainly what's happened. The effect has been that although I am still over 16%BF I don't really look it. I look in excellent shape when clothed. It's the thin layer of body fat visible when I am naked that gives the game away. I do, in my humble opinion, look a good deal better than most blokes over 40.
The coming two weeks I have got to be more accurate again with my macros / food intake. The day has also arrived, as I knew it would, when I have to cut most alcohol out my diet. Once every 5 days maximum.
Macros training day: P200 < 250g C160 < 180g F60 < 70g
Macros rest day: P200 < 250g C<50g F110g < 120g
I queried with the nutritionist why I have to work so hard to keep fat off when others apparently munch any amount of rubbish and remain slim. Genetics and legacy fat cells seems to be the answer. I have been overweight a lot in the past (though not necessarily a lot overweight) and my body is perpetually trying to regain fat.
So in summary, I am upping magnesium to 2000mg per day again. I am going to be continuing with the carb cycling (60g as far as I am aware on training days), being fastidious with my macro intake and knocking the booze on the head all but one day a week. I've not received the written recommendations, if anything is different from the above I'll update this post.
Eleven said:
I queried with the nutritionist why I have to work so hard to keep fat off when others apparently munch any amount of rubbish and remain slim. Genetics and legacy fat cells seems to be the answer. I have been overweight a lot in the past (though not necessarily a lot overweight) and my body is perpetually trying to regain fat.
So in summary, I am upping magnesium to 2000mg per day again. I am going to be continuing with the carb cycling (60g as far as I am aware on training days), being fastidious with my macro intake and knocking the booze on the head all but one day a week. I've not received the written recommendations, if anything is different from the above I'll update this post.
Suspect the first is largely nonsense. They're probably not eating as much. Case in point, my BiL appears to be gaining weight and has to really bust his arse in the gym whilst we apparently eat a similar amount. Went round sister's for dinner last night and was served a heavier portion than I'm used to. In other words, generally-speaking, he's eating more than me each meal.So in summary, I am upping magnesium to 2000mg per day again. I am going to be continuing with the carb cycling (60g as far as I am aware on training days), being fastidious with my macro intake and knocking the booze on the head all but one day a week. I've not received the written recommendations, if anything is different from the above I'll update this post.
Second thing - maybe it'll work but it sounds like a lot of effort. Can you do that forever?
Hoofy said:
Eleven said:
I queried with the nutritionist why I have to work so hard to keep fat off when others apparently munch any amount of rubbish and remain slim. Genetics and legacy fat cells seems to be the answer. I have been overweight a lot in the past (though not necessarily a lot overweight) and my body is perpetually trying to regain fat.
So in summary, I am upping magnesium to 2000mg per day again. I am going to be continuing with the carb cycling (60g as far as I am aware on training days), being fastidious with my macro intake and knocking the booze on the head all but one day a week. I've not received the written recommendations, if anything is different from the above I'll update this post.
Suspect the first is largely nonsense. They're probably not eating as much. Case in point, my BiL appears to be gaining weight and has to really bust his arse in the gym whilst we apparently eat a similar amount. Went round sister's for dinner last night and was served a heavier portion than I'm used to. In other words, generally-speaking, he's eating more than me each meal.So in summary, I am upping magnesium to 2000mg per day again. I am going to be continuing with the carb cycling (60g as far as I am aware on training days), being fastidious with my macro intake and knocking the booze on the head all but one day a week. I've not received the written recommendations, if anything is different from the above I'll update this post.
Second thing - maybe it'll work but it sounds like a lot of effort. Can you do that forever?
Also, if I am being told by a professional sports nutritionist that fat gain is not entirely about calories in vs calories out I should probably at least consider that it could be true.
Is it a lot of effort? Yes and no. In some ways it's no harder than when I have tried other regimes. I am certainly a lot happier doing this than I have been previously. I am eating loads yet my BF is trending downwards.
The booze will take some getting used to because we, as a family, tend to drink regularly (though not a lot).
I must say, though, that I am quite intrigued to see what effect alcohol removal / reduction has upon my BF. I have always wondered whether it has been playing a disproportionately large part in my tendency not to shed fat even when eating well and exercising a lot.
Eleven said:
I have always believed fatter people eat more, end of story. But my father in law is a case in point against the argument. He is an ex pro rugby player - a winger so he's not big - and he demonstrably eats far more than me and the "wrong" stuff. Even in his 60s he is rake-like.
Also, if I am being told by a professional sports nutritionist that fat gain is not entirely about calories in vs calories out I should probably at least consider that it could be true.
Is it a lot of effort? Yes and no. In some ways it's no harder than when I have tried other regimes. I am certainly a lot happier doing this than I have been previously. I am eating loads yet my BF is trending downwards.
The booze will take some getting used to because we, as a family, tend to drink regularly (though not a lot).
I must say, though, that I am quite intrigued to see what effect alcohol removal / reduction has upon my BF. I have always wondered whether it has been playing a disproportionately large part in my tendency not to shed fat even when eating well and exercising a lot.
Does your dad not do regular exercise? Or even stuff like gardening?Also, if I am being told by a professional sports nutritionist that fat gain is not entirely about calories in vs calories out I should probably at least consider that it could be true.
Is it a lot of effort? Yes and no. In some ways it's no harder than when I have tried other regimes. I am certainly a lot happier doing this than I have been previously. I am eating loads yet my BF is trending downwards.
The booze will take some getting used to because we, as a family, tend to drink regularly (though not a lot).
I must say, though, that I am quite intrigued to see what effect alcohol removal / reduction has upon my BF. I have always wondered whether it has been playing a disproportionately large part in my tendency not to shed fat even when eating well and exercising a lot.
I am aware there is an element of number of fat cells being grown during childhood so fat kids will find it tougher as adults to keep weight off as they have more fat cells but I can't see that being a major factor.
Re the booze, if you're drinking a lot previously then cutting out the booze will result in a dramatic drop in calorie intake!
Hoofy said:
Does your dad not do regular exercise? Or even stuff like gardening?
No, he is dead.My father in law, however, does little formal exercise. Certainly not a fraction of the exercise I do.
Hoofy said:
I am aware there is an element of number of fat cells being grown during childhood so fat kids will find it tougher as adults to keep weight off as they have more fat cells but I can't see that being a major factor.
I am given to understand that the fat cells can be grown later and once they're there, they are there for good, making it more difficult to remain slim.Hoofy said:
Re the booze, if you're drinking a lot previously then cutting out the booze will result in a dramatic drop in calorie intake!
Like I said, I wasn't drinking a lot. But the body prioritises the processing of alcohol above the burning of fat so it could, in theory, be pretty counter-productive to fat loss.Oops. 
It might be slightly more difficult but I've seen too many success stories of people going from obese to ripped at all ages to think it's that much of a deal.
I don't believe that's true. I did see an article on a site once stating that. I'd posted it here and there but it's not as devastating as they make out if at all.
It might be slightly more difficult but I've seen too many success stories of people going from obese to ripped at all ages to think it's that much of a deal.
I don't believe that's true. I did see an article on a site once stating that. I'd posted it here and there but it's not as devastating as they make out if at all.
Hoofy said:
I don't believe that's true. I did see an article on a site once stating that. I'd posted it here and there but it's not as devastating as they make out if at all.
Well the nutritionist thinks it's true, I have a suspicion it might be true and I've heard it from the medical profession before. So, I'm going to knock the booze on the head almost entirely for a few weeks and let's see what happens.I do believe there is an element of "legacy fat cells lying around".
OP, you should read Gary Taubes "Why We Get Fat" - a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie. Carbs, especially sugars and alcohol, set your fat cells to "accumulate". You will struggle to lose fat with regular drinking even if you are in calorie deficit.
Hormones can do it too, or genetic predisposition, or full frontal lobotomies (done to rats to persuade them to overeat). If the conditions are right (i.e. wrong) the body can continue to grow fatter even if it needs to compromise the growth of internal organs to do so. All very interesting stuff, but the above paragraph is your situation.
OP, you should read Gary Taubes "Why We Get Fat" - a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie. Carbs, especially sugars and alcohol, set your fat cells to "accumulate". You will struggle to lose fat with regular drinking even if you are in calorie deficit.
Hormones can do it too, or genetic predisposition, or full frontal lobotomies (done to rats to persuade them to overeat). If the conditions are right (i.e. wrong) the body can continue to grow fatter even if it needs to compromise the growth of internal organs to do so. All very interesting stuff, but the above paragraph is your situation.
grumbledoak said:
You will struggle to lose fat with regular drinking even if you are in calorie deficit.
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I will find out soon enough but I have long suspected this to be the case. .
My diet is very tightly controlled at the moment, I am training a lot (and hard) and fat loss has been slower than I anticipated. Alcohol really is the only element of my consumption that stands out as incompatible with my goals.
The nutritionist originally said that he wanted to try to keep booze in my diet, in order to make the diet as compatible with my lifestyle as possible. He seems to have come to the conclusion that it isn't possible.
If it doesn't work after a few weeks I'm going on a huge bender
.I remembered what it was while I was making my porridge this morning.
The article talks about how alcohol would be processed before the fat in your body ie you don't burn the fat if you drink. It was dismissed by everyone on MFP's forums as it's the same process as that which happens when you eat, say, carrots, sweet potato or celery. The issue is only relevant if you drink a lot so the body never has a chance to burn the fat. Or indeed eat a lot of healthy food.
The article talks about how alcohol would be processed before the fat in your body ie you don't burn the fat if you drink. It was dismissed by everyone on MFP's forums as it's the same process as that which happens when you eat, say, carrots, sweet potato or celery. The issue is only relevant if you drink a lot so the body never has a chance to burn the fat. Or indeed eat a lot of healthy food.
Hoofy said:
I remembered what it was while I was making my porridge this morning.
The article talks about how alcohol would be processed before the fat in your body ie you don't burn the fat if you drink. It was dismissed by everyone on MFP's forums as it's the same process as that which happens when you eat, say, carrots, sweet potato or celery. The issue is only relevant if you drink a lot so the body never has a chance to burn the fat. Or indeed eat a lot of healthy food.
I think I still prefer the opinion of a professional nutritionist and a doctor over second-hand discussion from an Internet chat room.The article talks about how alcohol would be processed before the fat in your body ie you don't burn the fat if you drink. It was dismissed by everyone on MFP's forums as it's the same process as that which happens when you eat, say, carrots, sweet potato or celery. The issue is only relevant if you drink a lot so the body never has a chance to burn the fat. Or indeed eat a lot of healthy food.
Eleven said:
I think I still prefer the opinion of a professional nutritionist and a doctor over second-hand discussion from an Internet chat room.
TBH I don't. It depends on what they say, doctor, nutritionist or keyboard warrior. I mean, for years, doctors and "professional nutritionists" have been telling us to eat low fat diets. 
Hoofy said:
Eleven said:
I think I still prefer the opinion of a professional nutritionist and a doctor over second-hand discussion from an Internet chat room.
TBH I don't. It depends on what they say, doctor, nutritionist or keyboard warrior.Eleven said:
Okay, so we're both happy with our sources. That's positive.
Bloody optimists.One thing I've learnt is to be sceptical of most stuff that people say to do with losing weight.
At the moment, we're all anti-carbs. We've been anti-fat. I'm waiting for the anti-protein group to start protesting.
Edited by Hoofy on Tuesday 24th June 12:35
Eleven said:
I think I still prefer the opinion of a professional nutritionist and a doctor over second-hand discussion from an Internet chat room.
"Nutritionist" isn't a reserved term in the UK - "professionalism" may vary. You want a "Dietician" really as my registered dietician friend keeps banging on about Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff