Body fat target.

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Discussion

GranderTransit

189 posts

178 months

Sunday 29th June 2014
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Poliquin Group said:
Biosignature Modulation sets out to Create a systematic strategy to rejuvenate the metabolism of the individual through diet, exercise and nutrient targeting
The methods employed uses either a 12 site skinfold assessment or more recently blood tests.

The advice given comes down to the knowledge of the practitioner. The results of these tests plus the use of questioning gives us the basis to form the advice we give. The better the questioning, the greater the knowledge, (+ client compliance) the better the results that the practitioner can get with that client.

So feel free to ask questions about Biosignature Modulation. I will answer questions that are within my knowledge, other I will try to obtain answers from people with more knowledge.

amare32

2,417 posts

222 months

Monday 30th June 2014
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Normally these threads often resort to someone offering all sorts of scientific theories, facts and anecdotes with some agreeing and some don't.

How about actually sticking to basics of exercising more and eating clean with the occasional treats? That's the method I've followed most of my adult life but when I was 33 in 2011, I stopped taking any protein shakes period and things like creatine.

I simply upped my training in the weight room with shorter but more intense compound lifting sessions in the gym, basketball and tennis for the cardio and cleaned up my eating habits. Over the course of 14 months, I went from 22% bodyfat which was average for a guy my age to 7%.

When I had my BF measured, I came to the realisation that I didn't resort to any gimmicks, just tracked my progress by looking at the shiny reflective thing called a mirror. No calorie counting whatsoever and No supplementation got the job done for me. I got more cut and stronger, fitter and more explosive on the tennis and basketball court and compound lifts, HIIT training, plyometrics and pretty much binned steady state cardio, shaped me to what I am today ( now all year round at 6% BF).

As you build a more leaner and muscular athletic figure, I seem to get away with eating more food, no surprise given my increased active lifestyle, I still have the odd treats and drinks but my body simply burns it off. This is coming from someone who has not won the genetic lottery and through hard work, you can accomplish your fitness goals. It just takes time and patience. But people just want to do this literally 3 weeks before they hit the beach in the summer. Which more often than not causes you to fail.


Eleven

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Monday 7th July 2014
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And another two weeks have rolled around.

The past fortnight I have been as strict as possible with my macros and knocked all alcohol on the head, barring on Friday evening. I didn't drink heavily before, but the nutritionist's view was that regular alcohol wasn't helping.

My diet has been low carb on non-training days. I trained one extra day last week, bringing my total training days to 5 (consecutive).

I don't weigh or measure myself between visits to the nutritionist, but I appeared to have lost fat this time. My umbilical is flatter and my neck tighter. Given my extreme discipline over the past two weeks and apparent fat loss I was expecting great things. I was somewhat disappointed therefore when my BF had reduced from 16.9 to 16.8. That was a LOT of hard work and discipline for not a lot of benefit.

The clue however seems to be in my body weight. I have gone from 92kg to 89.5kg in 2 weeks. The theory seems to be that I am glycogen deficient and that if I wasn't my lean mass would be much more and my BF much less.

I joked with Mrs Eleven that unless I'd lost 1% body fat this time I'd be going straight down the chip shop on the way to the pub. As it turns out, many a true word spoken in jest. I've got to eat 300g of carbs before the end of the day, from pretty much whatever source, normal eating tomorrow and BF will be tested again Wednesday.

If the nutritionist's theory is correct my BF will be 1% lower or there abouts on Wednesday.

I will report back Wednesday.



Westy Carl

178 posts

249 months

Tuesday 8th July 2014
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Eleven said:
If the nutritionist's theory is correct my BF will be 1% lower or there abouts on Wednesday.
How on earth can you loose 1% BF in 2 days?

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Tuesday 8th July 2014
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Westy Carl said:
Eleven said:
If the nutritionist's theory is correct my BF will be 1% lower or there abouts on Wednesday.
How on earth can you loose 1% BF in 2 days?
He won't have lost anything, he'll have gained slightly. His muscles should be nice and full and heavier than they were, thus changing the percentage number. That's what it sounds like the PT is saying.

Westy Carl

178 posts

249 months

Tuesday 8th July 2014
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Halb said:
He won't have lost anything, he'll have gained slightly. His muscles should be nice and full and heavier than they were, thus changing the percentage number. That's what it sounds like the PT is saying.
That's even more unlikely, he'll have maybe put on something over 5kg in a 2 days.

Eleven

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Tuesday 8th July 2014
quotequote all
Halb said:
Westy Carl said:
Eleven said:
If the nutritionist's theory is correct my BF will be 1% lower or there abouts on Wednesday.
How on earth can you loose 1% BF in 2 days?
He won't have lost anything, he'll have gained slightly. His muscles should be nice and full and heavier than they were, thus changing the percentage number. That's what it sounds like the PT is saying.
This.

I ate 300g of carbs between 3pm and 10pm yesterday. Everything was fair game, three cakes, 250g white rice, fruit. It wasn't as much fun as it sounds, by 10pm I was feeling like Mr Creosote and it was a lottery as to whether I would digest the carbs or vomit them out again. I am pleased to report it was the former but I feel like crap today and don't want to eat. I do however have a throat infection that probably isn't helping.





Westy Carl

178 posts

249 months

Tuesday 8th July 2014
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Eleven said:
This.

I ate 300g of carbs between 3pm and 10pm yesterday. Everything was fair game, three cakes, 250g white rice, fruit. It wasn't as much fun as it sounds, by 10pm I was feeling like Mr Creosote and it was a lottery as to whether I would digest the carbs or vomit them out again. I am pleased to report it was the former but I feel like crap today and don't want to eat. I do however have a throat infection that probably isn't helping.
Sorry, I don't buy it.
If you are 85kg with 13kg BF you have 15.2% BF to loose 1% you need to add 6kg lean musscle. (91kg / 13kg = 14.2%)

Eleven

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Tuesday 8th July 2014
quotequote all
Westy Carl said:
Eleven said:
This.

I ate 300g of carbs between 3pm and 10pm yesterday. Everything was fair game, three cakes, 250g white rice, fruit. It wasn't as much fun as it sounds, by 10pm I was feeling like Mr Creosote and it was a lottery as to whether I would digest the carbs or vomit them out again. I am pleased to report it was the former but I feel like crap today and don't want to eat. I do however have a throat infection that probably isn't helping.
Sorry, I don't buy it.
If you are 85kg with 13kg BF you have 15.2% BF to loose 1% you need to add 6kg lean musscle. (91kg / 13kg = 14.2%)
No, it's lean body mass which includes water. The carbs will restore my glycogen levels which will retain water in the muscle. Last time I was tested I'd been eating carbs regularly, this time I'd not eaten above about 35g of carbs for 2-3 days. So the probability is that I was glycogen deficient and not retaining as much water in the muscle as last time. This could show up as loss of weight, decrease in lean mass with little change in BF% whereas the truth may be that I have actually lost BF.





Eleven

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
quotequote all
Okay, so on Monday after a disappointing weigh-in I was advised to go home and eat 300g of carbs. I duly obliged and ate any carbs that I could find.

Yesterday was a normal training day so I ate 160g carbs and 250g protein.

This afternoon I weighed in again. 15.4% BF, down 1.4%, gained 1.5kg total weight. This suggests that I was glycogen deficient.

The most stubborn fat site is the umbilical so it has been suggested that I try yohimbine. Anyone used this?

Digger

14,591 posts

190 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
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You're being weighed at the wrong time of day, assuming you want a reasonably accurate figure.

Optimal time is first thing in the morning, after a pee + poo, and before consuming any food or beverages.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
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You're being weighed on the wrong planet! Get weighed on Mars where you'll have lost loads!!!

Westy Carl

178 posts

249 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
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Monday 89.5Kg @ 16.8% = 15Kg BF
Wednesday 91Kg @ 15.4% = 14Kg BF

Keep this up and by Sunday you'll be at 11% BF wink

Edited by Westy Carl on Wednesday 9th July 17:28

Eleven

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
quotequote all
Westy Carl said:
Monday 89.5Kg @ 16.8% = 15Kg BF
Wednesday 91Kg @ 15.4% = 14Kg BF

Keep this up and by Sunday you'll be at 11% BF wink

Edited by Westy Carl on Wednesday 9th July 17:28
I think the point you're making is that the numbers don't quite make sense. I THINK this is because of the different measurement locations and how they fit into the algorithm for calculating BF. I stand to be corrected by someone who knows better.

But the gist of it seems to be that carb re-feeding has increased glycogen levels, more water is stored in the muscles thus increasing lean mass.

I have to say that 15.4% makes more sense in terms of my physical appearance. I look a fair bit different from how I did at 16.9% - more than could be explained by 0.1% fat loss.





BenM77

2,835 posts

163 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
quotequote all
Westy Carl said:
Monday 89.5Kg @ 16.8% = 15Kg BF
Wednesday 91Kg @ 15.4% = 14Kg BF

Keep this up and by Sunday you'll be at 11% BF wink

Edited by Westy Carl on Wednesday 9th July 17:28
laugh



A strange thread indeed. Being told what to eat and when is not normal IMO

Eleven

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
quotequote all
BenM77 said:
A strange thread indeed. Being told what to eat and when is not normal IMO
It's not that abnormal I don't think. Most people get nutrition advice from somewhere, be that off the Internet, books or magazines. It just happens that I am paying to receive it from a nutritionist at the moment. I seem to recall you saying you picked up a lot of tips from Attitude magazine, it's no different really except the advice I'm receiving is personalised to my needs.

It remains to be seen whether or not the effort / expense is worth it. I am fairly open minded about it.


BenM77

2,835 posts

163 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
quotequote all
Eleven said:
BenM77 said:
A strange thread indeed. Being told what to eat and when is not normal IMO
It's not that abnormal I don't think. Most people get nutrition advice from somewhere, be that off the Internet, books or magazines. It just happens that I am paying to receive it from a nutritionist at the moment. I seem to recall you saying you picked up a lot of tips from Attitude magazine, it's no different really except the advice I'm receiving is personalised to my needs.

It remains to be seen whether or not the effort / expense is worth it. I am fairly open minded about it.
It wasn't me who picked any tips from a magazine but I agree with your post about people taking advice from different sources. smile



It's an interesting and honest thread and I hope you get the end result you're after. Of course you will then have to try and maintain the lower bf%!

Eleven

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
quotequote all
BenM77 said:
Eleven said:
BenM77 said:
A strange thread indeed. Being told what to eat and when is not normal IMO
It's not that abnormal I don't think. Most people get nutrition advice from somewhere, be that off the Internet, books or magazines. It just happens that I am paying to receive it from a nutritionist at the moment. I seem to recall you saying you picked up a lot of tips from Attitude magazine, it's no different really except the advice I'm receiving is personalised to my needs.

It remains to be seen whether or not the effort / expense is worth it. I am fairly open minded about it.
It wasn't me who picked any tips from a magazine but I agree with your post about people taking advice from different sources. smile



It's an interesting and honest thread and I hope you get the end result you're after. Of course you will then have to try and maintain the lower bf%!
Sure it was you Ben, you were adamant that you only bought Attitude for the nutrition and exercise articles.

Well, the purpose of seeing this chap wasn't just about lowering body fat. His remit was, "to help me establish a diet that enabled me to control body fat whilst having the energy to train hard". I have had low body fat before but it has usually involved difficult to sustain methods. I have also found it difficult to be economically productive whilst having low body fat.

Whilst the BF% changes have to some extent been manipulation of LBM through the use of magnesium etc, I have shed fat, gained muscle tone and it hasn't been overly uncomfortable. In fact a lot of the time I have felt like I've eaten too much as opposed to insufficient.

The end of my 12 weeks with this chap comes in about 3 weeks and I will make a decision about where to go at that point. If I feel then as I do now it won't be because he doesn't know his stuff that I discontinue - I genuinely think he does - it will be because he can be a remiss and disorganised individual who doesn't put in enough effort outside of our fortnightly meetings. But that seems to be a trait of other people I have met in the PT / fitness / sports arena.






BenM77

2,835 posts

163 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
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Thanks mate. I thought attitude magazine was going to be mma or boxing. A quick
Google tells me you are on the wind up laugh


If you're looking and feeling better then that's great. but having read your posts regarding diet and supplements can you honestly say it is sustainable?

It reads more like a transformation than a life long approach IMO

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
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BenM77 said:
It reads more like a transformation than a life long approach IMO
Transformation into.....MAGNESIUM MAN!!!!