Body fat target.

[Eleven]

Hoofy said:

I'm just trying to figure out which bit is down to the nutritionist and which bit is down to general dieting/bulking advice.

I can see you:
-do keto
-take supplements
-take the nutritionist's advice (so you're changing things from his original advice, surely?)

See what I mean:?

Well, I've been training and using different dietary regimes for years. But things that used to work seem now not to be as effective.

I have begun seeking advice from a sports nutritionist who has also given me a few (and it's only a few) training pointers. As a result of applying what he has recommended I have obtained the results I mention.

I am doing, as closely as practical, precisely what the chap is advising.

So the changes I am seeing are the result of what he has recommended. However his recommendations have changed as the weeks have progressed.

If it helps I will address the points you raise:

I do keto - I did before but I wasn't cycling it properly because I didn't understand the best way to do so or how to adjust cycles as necessary.

I take supplements - I did before but not the right ones and not enough. I didn't know I needed to take up to 2400mg of magnesium per day, but having done so I am in a lot better place. I've discussed my challenges and aims on this board as well as others, no one ever suggested magnesium loading, no one mentioned many of the things I am now doing to good effect. So it seems that visiting an expert was worthwhile.

I am taking the nutritionist's advice, yes. I have been and remain questioning but all I will say is that most of the things he has suggested seem to have worked, some of them dramatically.

Does that answer your questions at all?

[Hoofy]

Cheers. I find it interesting, that's all. Trying to figure out the degree to which his advice helped vs keto. What does he think of the keto diet?

[MYOB]

Am I the only one who is speechless at the amount of effort one goes through - with the aim to drop body fat, and remain the same size but yet, you are bulking and getting larger? And you consider this a success?

I realise this is in part an experiment for you but are you happy you are bulking out a little despite these not being your original intention?

[Hoofy]

I thought he said he'd dropped fat but got bigger in the muscular sense.

[MYOB]

Hoofy said:

I thought he said he'd dropped fat but got bigger in the muscular sense.

Yes, but wasn't his goal to remain the same size?

[Centurion07]

MYOB said:

Hoofy said:

I thought he said he'd dropped fat but got bigger in the muscular sense.

Yes, but wasn't his goal to remain the same size?

If he's dropping fat and replacing it with muscle then surely that's kind of remaining the same size (give or take)?

[MYOB]

Eleven said:

I wanted to lose fat, gain muscle and be about the same size. However, I am gaining size at the moment.

Here you go...

[Eleven]

Hoofy said:

Cheers. I find it interesting, that's all. Trying to figure out the degree to which his advice helped vs keto. What does he think of the keto diet?

As I mentioned I was using keto anyway but my results had plateaued - I was not losing fat and was very hungry. He recommended keto based upon my requirement, but with modifications. So keto has been a constant, it's the other stuff that has changed, results have coincided with doing the other stuff so it's safe to assume that those are the things that are making the difference, along with s smarter use of keto. If that makes sense.

[Eleven]

MYOB said:

Am I the only one who is speechless at the amount of effort one goes through - with the aim to drop body fat, and remain the same size but yet, you are bulking and getting larger? And you consider this a success?

I realise this is in part an experiment for you but are you happy you are bulking out a little despite these not being your original intention?

I am going to a lot of effort yes. But then I go to a lot of effort to be fit generally. The modifications I am making are a lot less trouble than the rest of my fitness regime and in fact have led to a significant reduction in my effort in other areas. So the net effort is less.

I am gaining mass, do I think this is a success? In itself no. Some people would probably say I look better - the gains I have made are what many people crave - my limbs and chest are much bigger, my waist smaller. Given the choice between looking flabby and how I do now I'd choose now every time. However I suspect my body fat will continue to fall and I will be back to the size I was formerly but with different body composition.

It's the indirect benefits that are the real wins though. I am sleeping much better for a start and what I thought were signs of aging have abated somewhat. I was starting to get lines and darkness under my eyes, these problems have improved greatly. My neck was just beginning to look saggy, it's firmed up noticeably. The tone of my face has improved generally too - it looks better covered but at the same time slimmer. For want of a better description I look generally more healthy and better nourished.

As you say, all of this is an experiment. It's going well so far though. I am wondering whether one of the conclusions I will draw is that as one ages being slim and healthy looking is more complex. In the 90s I smoked like a chimney, stayed awake for a couple of days at a time raving, ate crap and looked great. Twenty years later it is appearing that a different strategy is required.

[Hoofy]

Eleven said:

Hoofy said:

Cheers. I find it interesting, that's all. Trying to figure out the degree to which his advice helped vs keto. What does he think of the keto diet?

As I mentioned I was using keto anyway but my results had plateaued - I was not losing fat and was very hungry. He recommended keto based upon my requirement, but with modifications. So keto has been a constant, it's the other stuff that has changed, results have coincided with doing the other stuff so it's safe to assume that those are the things that are making the difference, along with s smarter use of keto. If that makes sense.

What changes did he suggest then?

[Eleven]

Hoofy said:

What changes did he suggest then?

Faster and more structured cycling mostly.

[Westy Carl]

Slight thread hijack (sorry), but can anyone explain in basic terms what a keto diet is and it's advantages / disadvantages.

[Eleven]

Westy Carl said:

Slight thread hijack (sorry), but can anyone explain in basic terms what a keto diet is and it's advantages / disadvantages.

Getting ones body to use fat as a principal energy source instead of carbohydrates.

The advantages are that blood sugar levels don't fluctuate as much as on a carb based diet, so fewer hunger pangs result. When using fat as energy it is easier to transition into using stored fat as energy.

The disadvantages are that the induction into ketosis can be uncomfortable, it can be complicated to continue benefiting from, it is quite expensive to do and eating out can be a challenge.

[Hoofy]

Eleven said:

The disadvantages are that the induction into ketosis can be uncomfortable, it can be complicated to continue benefiting from, it is quite expensive to do and eating out can be a challenge.

Stick to chinese buffets and just hit the meat dishes.

[Westy Carl]

Eleven said:

Getting ones body to use fat as a principal energy source instead of carbohydrates.

The advantages are that blood sugar levels don't fluctuate as much as on a carb based diet, so fewer hunger pangs result. When using fat as energy it is easier to transition into using stored fat as energy.

The disadvantages are that the induction into ketosis can be uncomfortable, it can be complicated to continue benefiting from, it is quite expensive to do and eating out can be a challenge.

Thanks. So it's a similar theory to doing early morning fasted cardio.

[goldblum]

Westy Carl said:

Slight thread hijack (sorry), but can anyone explain in basic terms what a keto diet is and it's advantages / disadvantages.

Main disadvantage is that fat oxidation is not as efficient as carbohydrate oxidation. This means that if you exercise above 50-60% intensity (in other words your exercise becomes aerobic) you'll need carbs to perform well. If you're dieting just sitting around without doing much exercise then cutting right back on the carbs and using fat for energy does work.

[Eleven]

Westy Carl said:

Eleven said:

Getting ones body to use fat as a principal energy source instead of carbohydrates.

The advantages are that blood sugar levels don't fluctuate as much as on a carb based diet, so fewer hunger pangs result. When using fat as energy it is easier to transition into using stored fat as energy.

The disadvantages are that the induction into ketosis can be uncomfortable, it can be complicated to continue benefiting from, it is quite expensive to do and eating out can be a challenge.

Thanks. So it's a similar theory to doing early morning fasted cardio.

Hmmmm I am not an expert on the subject. Intuitively I'd say not because it takes a few days (four for me) to enter ketosis. It requires very low carb and very high fat intake for the induction period. Just skipping breakfast isn't going to achieve that.

[Liquid Tuna]

goldblum said:

Westy Carl said:

Slight thread hijack (sorry), but can anyone explain in basic terms what a keto diet is and it's advantages / disadvantages.

Main disadvantage is that fat oxidation is not as efficient as carbohydrate oxidation. This means that if you exercise above 50-60% intensity (in other words your exercise becomes aerobic) you'll need carbs to perform well. If you're dieting just sitting around without doing much exercise then cutting right back on the carbs and using fat for energy does work.

That's interesting. I've been on keto for over 12 months now with good results (first 3 or 4 weeks were uncomfortable but after that it's been fine) regarding fat loss. I've also been doing Tabata and other HIIT, way beyond 50-60% intensity and found I can handle 25 to 30 mins max, then I'm wasted for a good couple of hours afterwards. Weights sessions have been fine with no noticeable energy problems.

[goldblum]

Liquid Tuna said:

goldblum said:

Westy Carl said:

Slight thread hijack (sorry), but can anyone explain in basic terms what a keto diet is and it's advantages / disadvantages.

Main disadvantage is that fat oxidation is not as efficient as carbohydrate oxidation. This means that if you exercise above 50-60% intensity (in other words your exercise becomes aerobic) you'll need carbs to perform well. If you're dieting just sitting around without doing much exercise then cutting right back on the carbs and using fat for energy does work.

That's interesting. I've been on keto for over 12 months now with good results (first 3 or 4 weeks were uncomfortable but after that it's been fine) regarding fat loss. I've also been doing Tabata and other HIIT, way beyond 50-60% intensity and found I can handle 25 to 30 mins max, then I'm wasted for a good couple of hours afterwards. Weights sessions have been fine with no noticeable energy problems.

Sure - normal weights sessions are anaerobic anyway so no matter how intense they shouldn't suffer too much on keto. Bring in anything aerobically intense and when glycogen runs out (30-40 mins) you'll be in trouble. Although carbs provide energy much quicker than fats, gram/gram fats actually provide more energy in total. Trouble is it's too slow working for any serious exercise.

[Eleven]

goldblum said:

Liquid Tuna said:

goldblum said:

Westy Carl said:

Slight thread hijack (sorry), but can anyone explain in basic terms what a keto diet is and it's advantages / disadvantages.

Main disadvantage is that fat oxidation is not as efficient as carbohydrate oxidation. This means that if you exercise above 50-60% intensity (in other words your exercise becomes aerobic) you'll need carbs to perform well. If you're dieting just sitting around without doing much exercise then cutting right back on the carbs and using fat for energy does work.

That's interesting. I've been on keto for over 12 months now with good results (first 3 or 4 weeks were uncomfortable but after that it's been fine) regarding fat loss. I've also been doing Tabata and other HIIT, way beyond 50-60% intensity and found I can handle 25 to 30 mins max, then I'm wasted for a good couple of hours afterwards. Weights sessions have been fine with no noticeable energy problems.

Sure - normal weights sessions are anaerobic anyway so no matter how intense they shouldn't suffer too much on keto. Bring in anything aerobically intense and when glycogen runs out (30-40 mins) you'll be in trouble. Although carbs provide energy much quicker than fats, gram/gram fats actually provide more energy in total. Trouble is it's too slow working for any serious exercise.

That's not been my experience; quite the opposite in fact.

I find that my anaerobic performance is slightly less when using keto, but I am better able to deal with cardio and my endurance is better. For example on a 20+ mile road bike session I need to be very careful about carb input or I will blow up, on keto this isn't an issue. I have attributed this to easier access to body fat as fuel.