Friend who is an alcholic

[Steffan]

sparkyhx said:

Like the above has said - he has to hit his own rock bottom, you can facilitate his mind changing but you will probably fail.

Whilst there is life there is hope and if the individual can face his demons there coud be a recovery. However IME once the deceit and lying to loved ones (?) starts there is in reality very very little hope for the individual who as sunk to that depth. I have known recovery very very occasionally from the depths of that point, but in many cases the drunkard is seeking oblivion in his drinking. Those cases invariably lead to an early death I am sorry to say. However I admire the efforts of the OP and I do wish him well in the task.

[Tiggsy]

on the subject of rock bottom.....for gods sake dont enable them or their hitting it will be so soft they dont notice.

IME you can try hard to help someone yet just allow them to bump through a succession of bottoms that should have been rock! By the time they have gone through 5 or 6 with your help.....there isnt much left for them to bang into (that they wake up from anyway)

[iwantagta]

He was arrested last night for drink driving.

No accident thankfully. He was done for the same thing 10 years ago.

Police drove him home apparently this morning - believe its unusual for them to do this - he is very very depressed, suicidal according to wife.

They are trying to get him into a residential unit.

Should this happen it could be the best thing to happen to him.

[Steffan]

iwantagta said:

He was arrested last night for drink driving.

No accident thankfully. He was done for the same thing 10 years ago.

Police drove him home apparently this morning - believe its unusual for them to do this - he is very very depressed, suicidal according to wife.

They are trying to get him into a residential unit.

Should this happen it could be the best thing to happen to him.

Not unless he Is determined to pull out of is alcohol fuelled dive. No external force will stop the drinking it must come from within. He may be sent on several courses/residential units but unless he wants to be saved from this desperate drive for oblivion nothing will help. I hope matters stabilise and improve but I am very very doubtful.

[iwantagta]

Steffan said:

Not unless he Is determined to pull out of is alcohol fuelled dive. No external force will stop the drinking it must come from within. He may be sent on several courses/residential units but unless he wants to be saved from this desperate drive for oblivion nothing will help. I hope matters stabilise and improve but I am very very doubtful.

I know.
He hasn't made any effort to get himself straight.
He will be dead inside a year if he cant get himself together.
Trying to think positively as the other is painful.

[Lotus Notes]

iwantagta said:

I know.
He hasn't made any effort to get himself straight.
He will be dead inside a year if he cant get himself together.
Trying to think positively as the other is painful.

Reading what you have to say, it looks more like he has a few months rather than a year..
Just be there for him, but at this point I would expect the worst unless he changes things sharpish.

[andy-xr]

Dont forget yourself in all of this, it's not selfish http://www.al-anonuk.org.uk/

[Tiggsy]

and soberrecovery.com forums - kept me sane!

[pork911]

best of luck for you and him

had a similar *kind* of situation with a partner and hard drugs

in the end i was just enabling, peeing in the wind and hurting myself - had to walk (a very long way) away from them and my whole life really (job, house, friends, country, you name it)

nearly killed me (leaving, staying away and moving on)

(* this is not advice)

[Steffan]

pork911 said:

best of luck for you and him

had a similar *kind* of situation with a partner and hard drugs

in the end i was just enabling, peeing in the wind and hurting myself - had to walk (a very long way) away from them and my whole life really (job, house, friends, country, you name it)

nearly killed me (leaving, staying away and moving on)

(* this is not advice)

As a long term friend once reminded me about a mutual friend who was drinking excessively:

"You must be aware that there is much more chance of you being dragged down by getting involved than there is of any change in the alcoholic. Their desperate selfish need for alcohol all the time is greater than everything else in their life"

Entirely correct advice and I have followed it. That is why the desire to recover must come from the alcoholic themselves. From within the addiction. No external support can alter their addiction. That is why I follow the approach of always looking for alcoholic to finally realise the desperate and short future as a drunk and actually to want to change. Otherwise those seeking to support are just embracing misery.

[pork911]

Steffan said:

pork911 said:

best of luck for you and him

had a similar *kind* of situation with a partner and hard drugs

in the end i was just enabling, peeing in the wind and hurting myself - had to walk (a very long way) away from them and my whole life really (job, house, friends, country, you name it)

nearly killed me (leaving, staying away and moving on)

(* this is not advice)

As a long term friend once reminded me about a mutual friend who was drinking excessively:

"You must be aware that there is much more chance of you being dragged down by getting involved than there is of any change in the alcoholic. Their desperate selfish need for alcohol all the time is greater than everything else in their life"

Entirely correct advice and I have followed it. That is why the desire to recover must come from the alcoholic themselves. From within the addiction. No external support can alter their addiction. That is why I follow the approach of always looking for alcoholic to finally realise the desperate and short future as a drunk and actually to want to change. Otherwise those seeking to support are just embracing misery.

Entirely agree but bit more complicated when it's your partner, you are already 'involved'.

Trying to help a loved one and enabling them are very close and in the moment it's difficult to know at what point enough is enough though the love for the person you used to know likely takes you far beyond that.

Otherwise, they tell you they are an addict / you realise, and it's just a case of goodbye and let me know when you are clean?

Yes of course the desire must come from them but addicts also tend to be very good actors, liars and manipulators - and you want to believe (if an aquaintence did one of the many things they did you wouldn't stand for it for a moment, but that counts for lots of non-addict stuff 'for better or worse').


In my particular case staying to try and help was incredibly dangerous (yes emotionally, but also practically) while cutting them off meant I had to fly away from absolutely everything (not just them) and doing so without them knowing beforehand, so not a great choice either way (and one I wrestled with daily until I did it).

I logically knew leaving was best but it still took a while and yes the toll of delay was massive. For a long time after the self imposed guilt for leaving them was massive even though of course it was only leaving them to their own choices. Where we where them getting clean on their own was very unlikely as no health or social care help whatsoever and being an addict was merely a heavy criminal matter.


Addiction is far worse on those around the addict - not their choice and they don't even get to get high!

[Tiggsy]

If you're the partner get out!

House, marriage, job, kids, family, money - nothing is as strong as the urge and it will all go to the wall if you stay. In fact, it goes to the wall if you leave but at least you can re-build

[Steffan]

pork911 said:

Steffan said:

pork911 said:

best of luck for you and him

had a similar *kind* of situation with a partner and hard drugs

in the end i was just enabling, peeing in the wind and hurting myself - had to walk (a very long way) away from them and my whole life really (job, house, friends, country, you name it)

nearly killed me (leaving, staying away and moving on)

(* this is not advice)

As a long term friend once reminded me about a mutual friend who was drinking excessively:

"You must be aware that there is much more chance of you being dragged down by getting involved than there is of any change in the alcoholic. Their desperate selfish need for alcohol all the time is greater than everything else in their life"

Entirely correct advice and I have followed it. That is why the desire to recover must come from the alcoholic themselves. From within the addiction. No external support can alter their addiction. That is why I follow the approach of always looking for alcoholic to finally realise the desperate and short future as a drunk and actually to want to change. Otherwise those seeking to support are just embracing misery.

Entirely agree but bit more complicated when it's your partner, you are already 'involved'.

Trying to help a loved one and enabling them are very close and in the moment it's difficult to know at what point enough is enough though the love for the person you used to know likely takes you far beyond that.

Otherwise, they tell you they are an addict / you realise, and it's just a case of goodbye and let me know when you are clean?

Yes of course the desire must come from them but addicts also tend to be very good actors, liars and manipulators - and you want to believe (if an aquaintence did one of the many things they did you wouldn't stand for it for a moment, but that counts for lots of non-addict stuff 'for better or worse').


In my particular case staying to try and help was incredibly dangerous (yes emotionally, but also practically) while cutting them off meant I had to fly away from absolutely everything (not just them) and doing so without them knowing beforehand, so not a great choice either way (and one I wrestled with daily until I did it).

I logically knew leaving was best but it still took a while and yes the toll of delay was massive. For a long time after the self imposed guilt for leaving them was massive even though of course it was only leaving them to their own choices. Where we where them getting clean on their own was very unlikely as no health or social care help whatsoever and being an addict was merely a heavy criminal matter.


Addiction is far worse on those around the addict - not their choice and they don't even get to get high!

"To thine own self be true" is a biblical quotation which should be at the core of our lives IMO. In a sense it could be a selfish approach but again with a biblical quotation "what doth it profit a man if he solud gain the whole word and loses his own soul?" we can see where the logic is coming from. Unless the supporter and career is sufficiently independant to function personally despite the pressure of supporting another person two disasters are far more probable than just the one.

Textbook examples of sensible conduct not being leaping into the abyss of the unkwn. As with the drowning man who clutches at straws to save himself and as thousands of wood be rescuers trying to save a drowning men have found to their cost, the sacrifice can all too often produce two deaths.

I am all for trying to support the alcoholic in his/her attempts to drag themselves out of the misery of their lives. But the motivation must come from within the alcoholic never from the carer because that just does not work. Exposing yourself to being used and abused by being too close to the problem and unintentionally assisting the alcoholics to continue to drink is never the answer. That is the very real danger of getting too close to the proble. Two deaths help no one. The career must be concerned with themselves and function first and above all else. Then do what they can for the alcoholic.

The first decision and moves must come from the alcoholic and clearly defined rules must govern the nature of the assistance offered. Thus giving them money is madness. Preparing them a meal might not be. Unless the alcoholic desperately wants to change and crawl out of the spiral of debt and drinking then there is no hope. In a final epithet: You have to be cruel to be kind. Particularly with alcoholics.