5x5

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Discussion

shakotan

10,679 posts

195 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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olly22n said:
Tall_Paul said:
Yeah the squats ramp up very quickly. I've gone down to 3x5 as squatting 3x a week was getting too much, both in time (30+ minutes just for squats inc the warm up!) and intensity.

Managed 85kg today at 3x5, 100kg is in sight (but still a long way away!). smile
Is the warm up important then? I have never bothered really.

I'm currently doing the 5x5 across 3 exercises in 15/20 mins.

How long are you taking once the weights get more challenging? Have you seen much benefit/improvement?
My current 5x5 is about 50 mins including warm-ups and some extended (3 min instead of 90 second) rests between sets.

V8mate

45,899 posts

188 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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Tall_Paul said:
You have to buy the 'warm up' option in the app, but it only recommends adding a warm up once you hit a certain weight. My warm up at 85kg on squats is:

5x 20kg (empty bar)
5x 20kg (empty bar)
5x 40kg
5x 60kg
3x 72.5kg

then your working sets. The warmup sets are done with no rest period in between apart from putting the weights on the bar (or finding a 10kg plate!). Obviously you don't want to go straight into an 85kg squat from nothing.

I need the full 3 minutes rest between sets, so with the warm up taking 10 minutes (including a 3 min rest before starting the working sets), then 12 minutes of rest between sets, a full 5x5 at decent weight was taking 30 minutes minimum just for squats. I need a full hour minimum, 1hr 15 really to not have to rush. add up the rest periods of 3 mins in between and before working sets and that's 45 minutes of just rest periods! So you can see how it will start getting much longer.

I started SL 5x5 in February, and deloaded on the squat at 55kg in March, so yeah you could say I've seen some improvement. biggrin My second deload was at 77.5kg, I'm hoping to get to 100kg before needing to deload for a 3rd time. I'm 6ft 3, 82kg, was 76kg when I started.
That's^ quite some warm-up!

I do 5 minutes on a cross-trainer to get everything moving. Has never been an issue.

V8mate

45,899 posts

188 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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olly22n said:
Have you guys increased your intake when doing the 5x5?

My calorie target is currently 1500 but regularly end up at 2k.
You'll certainly need to increase your protein element.

It's not as simple as 'I wanna lose weight so I'll eat less calories'.

Try this website. You need to be clear about your goals: do you want to be more muscular but weigh the same? Or are you happy to let muscle growth add to your overall weight? Building muscle and simultaneously losing weight is the toughest regime, but not impossible.

http://www.iifym.com/iifym-calculator/

V8mate

45,899 posts

188 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
olly22n said:
V8mate said:
olly22n said:
Have you guys increased your intake when doing the 5x5?

My calorie target is currently 1500 but regularly end up at 2k.
You'll certainly need to increase your protein element.

It's not as simple as 'I wanna lose weight so I'll eat less calories'.

Try this website. You need to be clear about your goals: do you want to be more muscular but weigh the same? Or are you happy to let muscle growth add to your overall weight? Building muscle and simultaneously losing weight is the toughest regime, but not impossible.

http://www.iifym.com/iifym-calculator/
I want to lose bodyfat and gain muscle.

Ideally.
Well fill in the calculator and it'll give you a breakdown of how your food should be structured by carbs, fat, protein etc.

smile

Tall_Paul

1,915 posts

226 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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V8mate said:
That's^ quite some warm-up!

I do 5 minutes on a cross-trainer to get everything moving. Has never been an issue.
I'd be ok if I was doing low weight, but when you're squatting/deadlifting at your 5RM I want a proper warm up. I couldn't go straight into a squat where I'm almost bursting blood vessels on my first rep! biggrin

olly22n said:
Have you guys increased your intake when doing the 5x5?

My calorie target is currently 1500 but regularly end up at 2k.
Yep, for me though it's all about gaining weight, I'm a skinny fker. I was on 3000 kcals a day, not long upped it to 3200kcals to try and get through a weight plateau, my weight and the weights I'm lifting.

I'll probably end up bulking until spring next year, hopefully hitting as near to 15 stone (95kg) as I can, but I'd be happy to get over 14 stone (89kg) before needing to cut.

Edited by Tall_Paul on Monday 25th July 14:08


Edited by Tall_Paul on Monday 25th July 14:11

V8mate

45,899 posts

188 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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olly22n said:
Guys, the app is having me working out everyday so far - 4 days in a row.

Is this right? Or should I be having a break/rest day?
Next day is next training day. 5x5 is a 3 times a week thing.

Did you calculate your macro thingy^ last night? Ensuring that the composition of your intake is right will deliver your goals much more swiftly!

Mr. H

985 posts

146 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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The beauty of 5x5 is that I can work out on Mon, Wed and Fri which is an acceptable amount of gym time each week. When I had previously worked on body areas (back/shoulders, legs, arms and chest) I needed four days which was a drag and I'd often miss one due to having a life.

Two weeks ago I had a mtb crash so I've been off the gym since then and only got back yesterday. The app suggested a 20% reduction which has dropped me from 77.5 kg to 60 kg squats. If I'm being honest I don't mind as I was struggling before.

I really need to take the advice above and sort out my food intake but I can never be bothered weighing everything so up to now I've just been trying to eat more and concentrate on getting more protein in. The biggest draw back is that protein is expensive and I'm poor.

stargazer30

1,582 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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olly22n said:
I want to lose bodyfat and gain muscle.

Ideally.
Pick one, you can't have both sorry.

Well not at the same time anyway. To loose weight you need to eat a calorie deficit. To gain muscle mass you need a calorie surplus. So if you want to loose weight you can eat a slight deficit and do 5x5 to burn more cals and get your body fat down. If your new you will still see strength gains but these will be neurological vs muscle mass. Eventually you will stall though, and you will need to start eating more than you burn. Then your body will start to build more muscle and your lifts will go up again.

The real trick to it is eating a slight surplus and not too much junk/fat. Then you only gain weight slowly and its mainly muscle vs fat.

stargazer30

1,582 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
olly22n said:
Is the warm up important then? I have never bothered really.

I'm currently doing the 5x5 across 3 exercises in 15/20 mins.

How long are you taking once the weights get more challenging? Have you seen much benefit/improvement?
Yes warm up is very important if you want to avoid injury. With light weights you will get away with it. But for example if you go in cold on 100kg squats you will hurt yourself (unless your freaking massive and strong lol)

How long between sets depends on you. If its easy 90 secs, hard up to 3 mins, if you failed last set 5 mins

I've seen loads of benefit in the 5 months I've been on it. I've also injured myself a bit though, the best advice I can give with strong lifts is dump the ego and form is king. If you complete 5x5 but your form went to hell, don't go up in weight, you'll just get hurt. Especially with squats. Squats form is tricky to get just right and is easy to think its okay when its not. But once the weight gets heavy any flaws will show up as knee pain or back pain. Ignore these and keep racking on more weight and you end up hurt eventually.

stargazer30

1,582 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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olly22n said:
At the moment I feel strong enough - any gains I get are purely for aesthetics. I want to lose body fat.

So am I best to 'cut' until I am where i want to be and then 'bulk' my muscle up from there?
Yeah a slight cut with exercise should help burn off the fat whilst at least preserving muscle mass. Later once you eat up, you'll find as you do gain muscle mass you can eat more without putting on weight anyway. As you burn more cals at rest.

MYOB

4,767 posts

137 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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stargazer30 said:
Pick one, you can't have both sorry.

Well not at the same time anyway.
Course you can do both at the same time!

shakotan

10,679 posts

195 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
stargazer30 said:
olly22n said:
I want to lose bodyfat and gain muscle.

Ideally.
Pick one, you can't have both sorry.

Well not at the same time anyway. To loose weight you need to eat a calorie deficit. To gain muscle mass you need a calorie surplus.
Nonsense.

(PS: Lose not Loose)

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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If you have excessive body fat, you can absolutely gain muscle while losing the belly.

MYOB

4,767 posts

137 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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olly22n said:
Guys im going to start a new thread as not to dilute this one from 5x5.
It's not complicated. Do the 5x5, and eat sensibly. You can over complicate the eating sensibly but I never have done. In fact, I'm a crisp monster like hoofy!

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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olly22n said:
This is so confusing.

Chris - whats your advice?
I can only tell you what worked for me, as we all have different metabolisms, and the older you get (I am in my very late 40's), the more your metabolism slows down, which means you need to eat less than you think to lose the fat and keep it off, even with regular training.

For the first 6 months of diet and training, when I was over 90kg (5'7"), I consumed 1200 calories per day while doing a 5x5 routine (I am quite small, so those 1200 cals per day may not be nearly enough for others). But I made every calorie count and cut out all crap 100%

Today, at 72kg I still mainly stay at 2000 cals per day, sometime a couple of hundred more if I burn 1000 cals in a workout.

If I go over say, 2200/2400 cals, no matter how hard I train (even 6 days per week during the first 5 months of this years), I will start to gain slightly around my waist. So I have learned to be super strict with what I eat. This is the key, I think. More so for us older guys (and girls). You really have to nail your diet and make sure you are getting all your macros, protein especially (I make sure I have around 180 grams of protein per day)

The weight training is still very important (and accelerates weight loss and body recomp), but diet is the main key - cut out as much bread, sugar, snacks (that can really do the damage) and alcohol as possible and eat mainly whole foods (fresh greens, eggs, salmon, beef, chicken etc., supplemented by whey protein to ensure your muscles get enough nutrients to recover and rebuild properly.

I have settled into a 5 meal a day routine - Breakfast, pre/post workout shakes, main meal at teatime and a casein shake before bed.

For people just coming into this, I think it is all too easy to overestimate what they need to consume by quite a margin, and they get frustrated because although they think they are training hard, they don't appear to be losing the fat as quickly as they perhaps thought they should.

As I said, this is what works for me, for my age, size and training routine. It may not work so good for others. So just keep training, progressing and eat as cleanly as you can, and not too much of anything.


chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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olly22n said:
Thanks Chris.

I'm not far off that but I do cheat too much, and I don't pay any attention to macros. I have cut the important things, booze, sugar, snacks, and then have the false belief that i can eat more becuase of it!

Best take big G's advice and look into my macros.
I remember being about 2 months into this, back in 2014, and feeling very low. I wanted a snack as I was a little peckish. I stopped myself by looking at and pinching the fat on my waist. The last thing I needed was any more unnecessary crap prolonging the fat loss - but the temptation was at times very overwhelming.
After this, I looked at setting goals in 3/6/12 month blocks, and no shorter (We quite often see silly posts about people wanting a 'washboard abs' look in 4 weeks, ready for their holidays)!
Three months was for keeping at my diet and setting little strength goals, the 6 months was for losing the bulk of the fat, and then the 12 month goal was just to look a lot better than I did the 12 months before. I think that setting realistic goals in realistic timeframes can help a lot, coupled with a modicum of willpower.


Tall_Paul

1,915 posts

226 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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the myfitnesspal app is great for tracking your calories and macros

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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Tall_Paul said:
the myfitnesspal app is great for tracking your calories and macros
Yes, I used that app religiously for the first 6 months. It was that app that suggested I go down to 1200 cals per day, but I don't think it goes that low any longer.

Tall_Paul

1,915 posts

226 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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Just checked, you can set any calorie goal by the looks of it, right down to 100. Looks like 10,000 kcals is the max though... 500g of protein, Mmmmm biggrin

The barcode scan function is great, saves having to find the food on the app, just scan and add.

HD Adam

5,144 posts

183 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
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Post it up and hopefully one of the mods won't move it to the Youtube thread.