Discussion
didelydoo said:
Perhaps they can be helpful, but normal squats (high and low bar), pause squats and front squats all have a much better carry over IME. I managed to squat 300kg by front & back squatting alone.
Still, knowledge is power- so it's worth reading, digesting and trying everything yourself to see what works for you.
That's interesting, and reflects that there's always new methods and techniques to drive progress. I've definitely found that to be the case with the more power/endurance and cardio-focused training I've done up to this point in my life (running, indoor rowing, climbing and so on). Once my initial linear progression consistently tails off, I'll get into the other squat variants some more. The box squat seems to have addressed my weakness at depth, at least for now, but there is no 'one right way', for sure.Still, knowledge is power- so it's worth reading, digesting and trying everything yourself to see what works for you.
First failure today - 5th rep of 5th set of OHP @ 42.5kg. Bit frustrating that it was the very last rep, but not too bad given I was certain I'd fail at 40.
Having read the above yesterday, I would've rested 5 mins before the final set, but just didn't have time in the gym this morning (was cutting it ridiculously fine as it was).
Will try straight in at 42.5kg again (as the app suggests), but once up to 45kg I'll try increasing the rest period to 5 mins between hard sets.
Still very much enjoying it; managed 5 pull-ups on Monday - would have struggled with one 2 months ago - and Friday/next workout will be a PR for me on squats (which has always been a very weak lift for me).
Having read the above yesterday, I would've rested 5 mins before the final set, but just didn't have time in the gym this morning (was cutting it ridiculously fine as it was).
Will try straight in at 42.5kg again (as the app suggests), but once up to 45kg I'll try increasing the rest period to 5 mins between hard sets.
Still very much enjoying it; managed 5 pull-ups on Monday - would have struggled with one 2 months ago - and Friday/next workout will be a PR for me on squats (which has always been a very weak lift for me).
chris watton said:
LordGrover said:
This is where SL 5x5 falls down for me. Like pretty much everyone, I too found these plateaus very difficult to beat. The programme as written (and has been VERY successful) requires you to deload and take a fresh run-up. The problem though, is it didn't work first time - why should it work a second time?
A definition of insanity; doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Einstein.
I now take the view that when I reach a sticking point, rather than deload I continue until I can get it. It goes something like this:
If I failed the example above 37.5kgs 5,5,5,4,3 the next workout I go for 3 x 6's (or 7's or 8's) then 4 x 6's (or 7's or 8's) until I get to 5 x 5's again. Rather than going backwards, I'm increasing the load overall each time so increasing my capacity/strength. Probably nonsense and I can't really justify it any more than say it works for me.
I do more or less the same. I de-load only very slightly (-5kg max for barbell press) and then go for at least 8 reps per set instead of 5, and work my way back up. I find that this works very well and do it for all main compound exercises.A definition of insanity; doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Einstein.
I now take the view that when I reach a sticking point, rather than deload I continue until I can get it. It goes something like this:
If I failed the example above 37.5kgs 5,5,5,4,3 the next workout I go for 3 x 6's (or 7's or 8's) then 4 x 6's (or 7's or 8's) until I get to 5 x 5's again. Rather than going backwards, I'm increasing the load overall each time so increasing my capacity/strength. Probably nonsense and I can't really justify it any more than say it works for me.
Hi chaps & chapesses,
I just joined this site to learn and contribute to this particular thread...
I've been an on & off weight lifter/body builder/power lifter. Depends what mood I'm in when I wake up. lol.
I suffer from epilepsy, so as I have a seizure I'm outa action for months even up to a year.
I always use the 5x5 program to get back into shape.
My strongest lifts have been (based on 1RM)
Squats: 225kgs
DL: 300kgs
Incline Press: 127.5kgs
Shoulder Press: 110kgs
However I've been off the gym for around a year coz of a horrible seizure. Last week was my 1st week back and I'm doing a variation of the 5x5 known as the Bill Starr - Glenn Pendlay 5x5.
It's one step up from the standard 5x5 and is for the lifter who is a little more experienced.
Currently my stats are pretty lowly...
(1RMs)
Squats: 120kgs
DLs: 145kg
Incline Press: 100kg
Shoulder press - haven't even tried yet.
I'll spend the next couple of sessions sorting out my form and adjusting myself to the new gym. I'll then start loading.
As always pain in the ass is the nutrition and getting in enough rest.
Will be happy to advise and am always looking for advise also.
Chat soon, chaps.
I just joined this site to learn and contribute to this particular thread...
I've been an on & off weight lifter/body builder/power lifter. Depends what mood I'm in when I wake up. lol.
I suffer from epilepsy, so as I have a seizure I'm outa action for months even up to a year.
I always use the 5x5 program to get back into shape.
My strongest lifts have been (based on 1RM)
Squats: 225kgs
DL: 300kgs
Incline Press: 127.5kgs
Shoulder Press: 110kgs
However I've been off the gym for around a year coz of a horrible seizure. Last week was my 1st week back and I'm doing a variation of the 5x5 known as the Bill Starr - Glenn Pendlay 5x5.
It's one step up from the standard 5x5 and is for the lifter who is a little more experienced.
Currently my stats are pretty lowly...
(1RMs)
Squats: 120kgs
DLs: 145kg
Incline Press: 100kg
Shoulder press - haven't even tried yet.
I'll spend the next couple of sessions sorting out my form and adjusting myself to the new gym. I'll then start loading.
As always pain in the ass is the nutrition and getting in enough rest.
Will be happy to advise and am always looking for advise also.
Chat soon, chaps.
They are good weights - especially with your 'enforced' breaks.
Me I am a little annoyed, today I was upto 85kg on the squat and completely lost confidence, started losing form and twinged my back, I rested the three mins and tried again, but the whole session of squats was just runied, I only managed two lots of 5 and frankly they were poor, Im not sure I went as deep as I can/should.
Ruinned my deadlift a little too, paranoid about hurting my back after the squats...
Me I am a little annoyed, today I was upto 85kg on the squat and completely lost confidence, started losing form and twinged my back, I rested the three mins and tried again, but the whole session of squats was just runied, I only managed two lots of 5 and frankly they were poor, Im not sure I went as deep as I can/should.
Ruinned my deadlift a little too, paranoid about hurting my back after the squats...
Well there were some posts a few weeks back about using a weight belt.
I recall this chat.
Anyway, tonight I gave one a try, just to go back again to the weight. And I have to say if felt odd, and i'm not sure how tight it should be, but I felt better on my squat, the belt seemed to steady me a little.
I recall this chat.
Anyway, tonight I gave one a try, just to go back again to the weight. And I have to say if felt odd, and i'm not sure how tight it should be, but I felt better on my squat, the belt seemed to steady me a little.
crxdave said:
Well, after some deliberation, I've signed up to the gym and will be starting 5x5 this weekend. Will update progress here. Any tips for a beginner to the programme?
Start light and concentrate on proper form. Don't skip the warm up sets either. Especially as the weight starts to get heavier.Riskins said:
End of week 2 and Squat 85, Dead 110, OHP 45, Row 60 and bench 65.....I had been training this programme late summer/ early autumn last year so picked up where felt comfortable, possibly slightly too high or some exercises.
Dead and OHP feel like I am close to the limits so need to play with weight/ reps to keep progressing but squat is feeling strong stromg still.
As expected I hit the wall on the heavier lifts and have had to de load on squat and d/lift....noticed my form was going. 90kgs on squat and 115kgs on dead lift.Dead and OHP feel like I am close to the limits so need to play with weight/ reps to keep progressing but squat is feeling strong stromg still.
Bench is now on 75 and feeling strong, row has gone up to 65kgs, OHP I am struggling at 47.5 so need to de load this and go again.
We have a bar in the gym like an octagonal ring you step into and then the grip with your palms facing the side of your thighs. I have seen a number of chaps using these for what looks like a deadlift...is this comparable to d/lifting with a straight bar?
Well done - you are still going strong, I suppose its just one of those things that you hit a limit, I suppose also its a good thing, because you have to meet your limit to move it.
Ha! at least thats how I have tried to think about it when I can't quite shift the bar!
I have seen the octaginal bar too. I have tried it, pure curiosity, it seems to shift the weight off the lower back a little, and my arms/hands find it a little easier because of where the weight sits.
Ha! at least thats how I have tried to think about it when I can't quite shift the bar!
I have seen the octaginal bar too. I have tried it, pure curiosity, it seems to shift the weight off the lower back a little, and my arms/hands find it a little easier because of where the weight sits.
Riskins said:
Riskins said:
End of week 2 and Squat 85, Dead 110, OHP 45, Row 60 and bench 65.....I had been training this programme late summer/ early autumn last year so picked up where felt comfortable, possibly slightly too high or some exercises.
Dead and OHP feel like I am close to the limits so need to play with weight/ reps to keep progressing but squat is feeling strong stromg still.
As expected I hit the wall on the heavier lifts and have had to de load on squat and d/lift....noticed my form was going. 90kgs on squat and 115kgs on dead lift.Dead and OHP feel like I am close to the limits so need to play with weight/ reps to keep progressing but squat is feeling strong stromg still.
Bench is now on 75 and feeling strong, row has gone up to 65kgs, OHP I am struggling at 47.5 so need to de load this and go again.
We have a bar in the gym like an octagonal ring you step into and then the grip with your palms facing the side of your thighs. I have seen a number of chaps using these for what looks like a deadlift...is this comparable to d/lifting with a straight bar?
I tried octagonal bar as well and didn't like it. Preferred the straight bar for deadlifts.
Riskins said:
As expected I hit the wall on the heavier lifts and have had to de load on squat and d/lift....noticed my form was going. 90kgs on squat and 115kgs on dead lift.
Bench is now on 75 and feeling strong, row has gone up to 65kgs, OHP I am struggling at 47.5 so need to de load this and go again.
We have a bar in the gym like an octagonal ring you step into and then the grip with your palms facing the side of your thighs. I have seen a number of chaps using these for what looks like a deadlift...is this comparable to d/lifting with a straight bar?
That's a trap bar, and is pretty quad dominant if you use it properly, so much so that It will actually benefit your squat more than your deadlift. Bench is now on 75 and feeling strong, row has gone up to 65kgs, OHP I am struggling at 47.5 so need to de load this and go again.
We have a bar in the gym like an octagonal ring you step into and then the grip with your palms facing the side of your thighs. I have seen a number of chaps using these for what looks like a deadlift...is this comparable to d/lifting with a straight bar?
It is however a good replacement for deadlifts if you have back issues, as it takes the pressure off your lumbar. I find it helps my back pain, and will use the trap bar from time to time instead of normal deads.
You get a wicked burn though in the quads the first time you use it!
I am sticking on 70 on the Squat for a little while, mentions of back injuries makes me feel a bit concerned, and seventy kilos for ten reps still makes me work, its weird though, one time it feels ok and then the next time it gets harder. Noticed I was getting an ache in my legs, feels like bone rather than muscle, guess my lardy carcass is not used to lifting ten stones up and down and all needs time to adjust, not just muscles, ligaments, tendons and bones, strength training is meant to be good for bone density so maybe that is it being improved
Bench Press I am doing 70 kilos, 5 sets of 6, felt fairly easy last night, will do a few more sessions of that and then put another couple of kilos on.
Need to start doing Dead Lifts and the other stuff.
Bench Press I am doing 70 kilos, 5 sets of 6, felt fairly easy last night, will do a few more sessions of that and then put another couple of kilos on.
Need to start doing Dead Lifts and the other stuff.
Im sure you will see some improvment if you do them all. Better than sitting on the sofa, right?
I stuggled today, yesterday I couldn't use the narrow silver bar that weighs 20kg for my squats, the only thing available was a 10kg black bar that is far thicker, so it felt awkward yesterday.
I was back to the silver bar today and it seemed to give me a pain in the back of my head, not sure why, it just felt horrible in my head under load.
Any idea why that would happen? I hope I havent done myself an injury.
I stuggled today, yesterday I couldn't use the narrow silver bar that weighs 20kg for my squats, the only thing available was a 10kg black bar that is far thicker, so it felt awkward yesterday.
I was back to the silver bar today and it seemed to give me a pain in the back of my head, not sure why, it just felt horrible in my head under load.
Any idea why that would happen? I hope I havent done myself an injury.
Just got back from the gym, made all the lifts which I was happy with (just about managed 45kgs OHP with a 4min rest before the final set, which was good, given I stalled at 42.5).
I missed two workouts a couple of weeks ago, and had the one stall on OHP, but as of now numbers are:
Squat - 77.5 and starting to feel pretty hard - tweaked my knee on Saturday, so was very careful with form today.
OHP - 45 - See above.
Deadlift - 95. Not too bad, but another 10kg and it'll start to hurt.
Row - 57.5 - Again, not too bad but still struggling with form, as I have long legs. Feels like I'm putting a lot of stress on my lumbar.
Bench - 47.5. Easy
I missed two workouts a couple of weeks ago, and had the one stall on OHP, but as of now numbers are:
Squat - 77.5 and starting to feel pretty hard - tweaked my knee on Saturday, so was very careful with form today.
OHP - 45 - See above.
Deadlift - 95. Not too bad, but another 10kg and it'll start to hurt.
Row - 57.5 - Again, not too bad but still struggling with form, as I have long legs. Feels like I'm putting a lot of stress on my lumbar.
Bench - 47.5. Easy
Well I'm on 5x5 having previously used Wendler for a few months. I've been trying 5x5 for about a month but due to holidays, exams and illness I've not managed a proper week yet. This week will be it! As I've recently taking a real liking to climbing I'm going to do chins and hanging knee raises every workout.
Monday
Went climbing on Sunday so hands were wrecked after deadlifts. Got through it all though! This is my third week of 5x5 and the first week where the deads have been challenging.
5x5 Deadlift (currently at 120kg)
4x6 3 second pause front squat (dear god) currently @ 50kg
4x10 bent over row (60kg)
4 sets of wide grip overhand chins to failure
4x15 sets of hanging knee raises
Tuesday
5x5 Bench (52.5kg)
4x10 Incline (35kg)
4x10 DB Shoulder press (15kg)
4 sets of dips to failure
4 sets of wide grip overhand chins to failure
4x15 sets of hanging knee raises
Thursday
5x5 Standing shoulder press (32.5kg)
4x10 DB row (27.5kg)
4 sets of close grip underhand chins to failure (murder after the rows!)
2 sets of shoulder killer, 12 reps, straight into each exercise, all seated:
Front raise (10kg plate)
Lat raise (5kg)
Arnold press (5kg)
Diddy weights but the cumulative effect means this is brutal!
4 sets of wide grip overhand chins to failure
4x15 sets of hanging knee raises
Friday
5x5 Squats (90kg)
4x6 Pause squats (70kg)
4 sets of walking lunges, 6 steps each leg (25kg each hand, brutal!)
4x10-12 stiff leg deadlift (80kg)
4 sets of wide grip overhand chins to failure
4x15 sets of hanging knee raises
Trying to lean down a bit so not really expecting much improvement in my previous maxes, but trying to get to a point where I actually look like I lift.
Monday
Went climbing on Sunday so hands were wrecked after deadlifts. Got through it all though! This is my third week of 5x5 and the first week where the deads have been challenging.
5x5 Deadlift (currently at 120kg)
4x6 3 second pause front squat (dear god) currently @ 50kg
4x10 bent over row (60kg)
4 sets of wide grip overhand chins to failure
4x15 sets of hanging knee raises
Tuesday
5x5 Bench (52.5kg)
4x10 Incline (35kg)
4x10 DB Shoulder press (15kg)
4 sets of dips to failure
4 sets of wide grip overhand chins to failure
4x15 sets of hanging knee raises
Thursday
5x5 Standing shoulder press (32.5kg)
4x10 DB row (27.5kg)
4 sets of close grip underhand chins to failure (murder after the rows!)
2 sets of shoulder killer, 12 reps, straight into each exercise, all seated:
Front raise (10kg plate)
Lat raise (5kg)
Arnold press (5kg)
Diddy weights but the cumulative effect means this is brutal!
4 sets of wide grip overhand chins to failure
4x15 sets of hanging knee raises
Friday
5x5 Squats (90kg)
4x6 Pause squats (70kg)
4 sets of walking lunges, 6 steps each leg (25kg each hand, brutal!)
4x10-12 stiff leg deadlift (80kg)
4 sets of wide grip overhand chins to failure
4x15 sets of hanging knee raises
Trying to lean down a bit so not really expecting much improvement in my previous maxes, but trying to get to a point where I actually look like I lift.
Been doing this on and off for a bit but as I am currently not allowed to swim I've being doing it more consistently for a couple of weeks.
Currently on
Squat - 75 Kg
Deadlift - 90kg
Bench/Row - 50kg
OHP - 40Kg
Pretty sure I'm close to a failure on OHP although this week was a double on that session so perhaps just the once next week will give me some rest.
One thing I am having a problem with is my grip on the DL. This morning I was really struggling to hold the bar. Should I try straps or chalk maybe?
Currently on
Squat - 75 Kg
Deadlift - 90kg
Bench/Row - 50kg
OHP - 40Kg
Pretty sure I'm close to a failure on OHP although this week was a double on that session so perhaps just the once next week will give me some rest.
One thing I am having a problem with is my grip on the DL. This morning I was really struggling to hold the bar. Should I try straps or chalk maybe?
I've been using a mixed grip. It was the hand with the palm facing away which I felt like I was losing grip.
Might try swapping so the left hand faces in and the right faces away.
the bar didn't feel heavy and I was comfortably lifting it through my legs. Just felt like I was struggling to hold the bar.
Might try swapping so the left hand faces in and the right faces away.
the bar didn't feel heavy and I was comfortably lifting it through my legs. Just felt like I was struggling to hold the bar.
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