5x5

[ORD]

You're asking too much of your legs. You're running a lot and squatting a lot and don't have the build for squatting.

A few things you could check:

(1) Are you getting enough protein? About 130-150g per day.

(2) Are you sleeping enough? You'll need 8 hours a night for that amount of leg work.

(3) Are you drinking alcohol? You cannot realistically ask your muscles to heal quickly if you are on the pop.

How old are you?

I could probably do your programme when I was 20 but not 13 years later. It's a very high-volume squatting programme for someone with long, thin legs.

[Frenchda]

Thread resurrection!!!!

Having not lifted a bean for 5-6 months due to a slight bulging disc and a troublesome L5 nerve I have now been given the go ahead by the spinal clinic to resume after the results of an MRI, I will not cause any damage and the limiting factor will be the pain. I have a 4-6 week wait until they can block the nerve.

The range of movement for the lifts in 5x5 does not aggravate my glute/hamstring too much so I am chomping at the bit to get going again. The question is where to start? I will be paying loads of attention to warming up & mobility (so much more than before).
Previous lifts in September 2016

Squat - 140kg 5x5, tested 1RM 165kg
Dead – 160kg 1x5, tested 1RM 180kg
Bench – 110kg 5x5 not tested

I am happy to go back to scratch and an empty bar if need be but my thought process is as follows:

Squat – 50kg normal 2.5kg increase.
Dead – 60kg, 7.5kg increase
Bench - 40kg normal 2.5kg increase
OHP – 30kg normal 2.5kg increase
Row – 40kg normal 2.5kg increase

Added some assistance at comparable weights, loads & loads of floor mobility, hips etc and separate work on GHD.
I am in no rush but would like to get up to if not beyond my previous lifts.

Also any good powerlifting coach’s in Berkshire

Any advice welcome – I have been cleared by a spinal specialist and chiro to crack on.

The good news is my wife has felt sorry for me and finally gave in on the constant pecking from me about using the unused downstairs room - my new space (and I kept the old space, the mancave grows

[ORD]

I'm no expert, but that seems sensible to me. Any lighter and it would be very hard to maintain good form, let alone motivation!

[MYOB]

Think it will be dependent on a number of factors that are personal to you. After 6 months out, you need to be confident you can do lifts at those weights without causing any injuries. Yes, they are substantially lighter than what you lifted in September 2016, but your proposed starting weights are still fairly substantial.

You will know if you need to start lighter and if you do, don't be despondent! You will quickly get the load back up...I would be inclined to start lower personally given the injury you have had and the time since you last lifted but that's just me.

[V8mate]

Frenchda said:

The range of movement for the lifts in 5x5 does not aggravate my glute/hamstring too much so I am chomping at the bit to get going again.

Do you not squat then?

[Frenchda]

V8mate said:

Do you not squat then?

I do but squats do not aggravate it, no idea why?

I think flexibility is going to be the key, after years of doing stuff without a second thought I have reached the age (body worn out ) where I have to really start to take that st seriously. Gentleman and ladies of a certain age you near to bear this in mind - Youth wasted on the young!

I am starting a routine from Gold Medal Bodies (GMD) called elements and it is all about movement, quite an interesting programme and hopefully will not detract from the lifting. https://gmb.io/

I have had a good think about what I actually want to achieve and although strength is still the goal it will be heavily weighed with flexibility (still want that 2 x body weight squat though!!).

Edited by Frenchda on Wednesday 15th March 09:05

[chris watton]

My wife and her friend want to start doing weights at the gym, rather than keep doing the 'Legs, Bums and Tums' classes, and they have asked me to show them what to do in a couple of weeks time, as they want to 'firm up'

Would a 5x5 be appropriate, do you think? I was thinking just starting with the bar with 3 sets of 5 for each exercise. Or would DB stuff be better?

[Frenchda]

chris watton said:

My wife and her friend want to start doing weights at the gym, rather than keep doing the 'Legs, Bums and Tums' classes, and they have asked me to show them what to do in a couple of weeks time, as they want to 'firm up'

Would a 5x5 be appropriate, do you think? I was thinking just starting with the bar with 3 sets of 5 for each exercise. Or would DB stuff be better?

I would stick to 5x5, my step daughter has seen great gains sticking to the program. The one think she did do was start with a lighter bar than the 20kg, a ladies bar (15kg) if the gym has one, or just use something from the body pump class and start as light as they need.

Use an app as they can look at there progression which will encourage them, and they have those wonderful newbie gains to look forward too.

[chris watton]

Frenchda said:

I would stick to 5x5, my step daughter has seen great gains sticking to the program. The one think she did do was start with a lighter bar than the 20kg, a ladies bar (15kg) if the gym has one, or just use something from the body pump class and start as light as they need.

Use an app as they can look at there progression which will encourage them, and they have those wonderful newbie gains to look forward too.

Thanks for that, 5x5 it is, then. regarding the 20kg bar, you are right, I think it would be too much for overhead presses, 10 or 15kg would be better to start with. I will see what bars they have, I am sure they have some lighter bars there.

[ORD]

Newbie gains are amazing, and 5 x 5 will be just fine if they use a lighter bar for OHP.

That said, I have in the past been amazed at how weak people can be when they start training.

[Dakkon]

My question is how can I adapt the 5x5 routine to going to the gym four days in a row per week.

I work away from home and can get to the gym every evening Monday to Thursday, I have been splitting my routine currently:
Mon: Chest and Triceps
Tues: Back and Biceps
Wed: Legs and Shoulders
Thurs: Little bit of everything, mainly cardio.

I have been reading really good things about the 5x5 and would really like to try it but I can't work the rest day in between going three times a week (Mon, Wed & Fri).

So, any advice?

[stargazer30]

Dakkon said:

My question is how can I adapt the 5x5 routine to going to the gym four days in a row per week.

I work away from home and can get to the gym every evening Monday to Thursday, I have been splitting my routine currently:
Mon: Chest and Triceps
Tues: Back and Biceps
Wed: Legs and Shoulders
Thurs: Little bit of everything, mainly cardio.

I have been reading really good things about the 5x5 and would really like to try it but I can't work the rest day in between going three times a week (Mon, Wed & Fri).

So, any advice?

We can't answer that until we know if your a beginner/novice or an intermediate lifter or above. Example - If you are already a heavy squatter (like 1.2x your body weight or above) You will probably find you simply can't squat that weight 5x5 without at least one days rest in between or you'll be overtraining. For a newb or someone who is not strong enough to squat that heavy maybe it would be okay.

If you are strong already, maybe do SL routine A Mon, SL routine B Wed and do some assistance work Tue and Thur?

[ORD]

In your position, I would do something like the following:

Mon: Bench & squat plus assistance (including rows and chins)
Tuesday: Mobility & conditioning work
Wednesday: Deadlift and OHP
Thursday: Light total body workout, sprints and loaded carries

[Dakkon]

So I did the first session last Thursday and the second last night:
Squat: 60kg's
Bench: 60Kg's
Barbell Row: 40kg's
Overhead press: 20kg's, could do 40kg's but not a full 5x5
Deadlift: 60kg's, could easily go heavier

I have plenty of experience going to the gym over the years, but work / life have meant that I have had a number of breaks

[Flook]

Advice please:

There seems to be an odd relationship between weights for the various lifts and my bodyweight.

I'm about 5'10" tall, weight around 74kgs, body fat 16-17% age 47.

I'm currently lifting the following (5x5):

Squat: 80 kgs
Deadlift: 100 kgs
Bench: 75 kgs
OHP: 52.5 kgs
Row: 55 kgs

Given I'm at or near stalling point on most of my lifts, my squat and deadlift seem pretty low, while Bench and OHP are reasonable, and the bent over row is about where I'd expect it. I would say there's room for some small further gains in the Bench and Deadlift and Row - I'm pretty much at the limit in Squat and OHP. I've never tested 1RM on any of the lifts - just done 5x5.

I look fairly normal (i.e. I don't have huge arms / shoulders and tiny skinny thighs) - so I assume, despite studiously looking at various youtube tutorials etc that my squat form etc is just a bit st.

I'm eating for maintenance rather than to gain at the moment, so I'm not really looking for advice on how to push through a plateau - more for a sense check on others' experience of appearing to be significantly weaker on some compound lifts than others...any thoughts?

[chris watton]

Flook said:

Advice please:

There seems to be an odd relationship between weights for the various lifts and my bodyweight.

I'm about 5'10" tall, weight around 74kgs, body fat 16-17% age 47.

I'm currently lifting the following (5x5):

Squat: 80 kgs
Deadlift: 100 kgs
Bench: 75 kgs
OHP: 52.5 kgs
Row: 55 kgs

Given I'm at or near stalling point on most of my lifts, my squat and deadlift seem pretty low, while Bench and OHP are reasonable, and the bent over row is about where I'd expect it. I would say there's room for some small further gains in the Bench and Deadlift and Row - I'm pretty much at the limit in Squat and OHP. I've never tested 1RM on any of the lifts - just done 5x5.

I look fairly normal (i.e. I don't have huge arms / shoulders and tiny skinny thighs) - so I assume, despite studiously looking at various youtube tutorials etc that my squat form etc is just a bit st.

I'm eating for maintenance rather than to gain at the moment, so I'm not really looking for advice on how to push through a plateau - more for a sense check on others' experience of appearing to be significantly weaker on some compound lifts than others...any thoughts?

I would think that the first thing you need to do is make sure that you're in a calorie surplus, rather than just maintenance, as the 5x5 is a strength routine and you expend quite a lot of energy doing this program.

Generally, I think that perhaps your squat should be nearer 100 and Deadlift 120, going by your other lifts - however doing 5 sets of 5 with the same weight can get exhausting once you reach a certain limit. I used to do 2x5 warm up sets with lighter weight and then 3x5 with the working weight.

[Flook]

chris watton said:

Generally, I think that perhaps your squat should be nearer 100 and Deadlift 120, going by your other lifts - however doing 5 sets of 5 with the same weight can get exhausting once you reach a certain limit. I used to do 2x5 warm up sets with lighter weight and then 3x5 with the working weight.

I agree my squat should be around 100 & deadlift 120-ish...but they're nowhere near!

120 for the deadlift feels a feasible objective if I focus very carefully on form, eat more, work on my grip strength (pretty poor) etc etc...100 for the squat feels a million miles away given how hard I find it to complete at 80.

I do a fairly extensive warm up (5 x freestanding, 5 x 20kgs, 5 x 40kgs, 5 x 60kgs) before I do my 5x5 working sets...but then I do something similar for the bench press so even if I'm overdoing the warmup, the comparison of crappy squat and decent bench still applies...

I tend to find that the set where everything sort of comes together (i.e. muscles / joints fully warmed up and really firing, but not yet fatigued) is usually about working set no. 2 or 3...

Edited by Flook on Wednesday 22 March 18:55

Edited by Flook on Wednesday 22 March 19:14

[V8mate]

OHP seems suspiciously high given the bench achievement.

Do check that form is strict; no leg assistance etc.

https://youtu.be/2yjwXTZQDDI

[ORD]

I agre with Chris. Your numbers aren't that bad or out of proportion. I weigh a little bit more than you, but am a similar build. My bench for 5 x 5 is not hugely dissimilar to my squat (probably about 90kg bench and 115kg squat). Squats take a lot out of you once you get into a decent number of reps. Deadlifts do the same - mine would be around 130-135kg for 5 x 5.

I would stick with 5 x 5 for a little longer and then move to something with a bit less volume & frequency on the lower body. I'm a big fan of 5/3/1 (in its various forms).

[Flook]

V8mate said:

OHP seems suspiciously high given the bench achievement.

Do check that form is strict; no leg assistance etc.

https://youtu.be/2yjwXTZQDDI

Will check for this - definitely not getting any sneaky leg push involved, but sure I could keep my torso more upright - and the last couple of reps are slooowww...