Discussion
A troublesome topic, and one that is causing a few of us a lot of problems. A friend, 82, is losing his marbles, and recent problems include:-
Phoning me in great distress to tell me that he needed "labels for his mole". It took ten minutes to work out that the batteries in his computer mouse were dead. I checked his computer only to find that he had sent himself six emails that week and had written to a number of friends asking them for their email address. By email of course.
Complaining that his garden tractor was screwed and the battery was dead. Four times I have been over to find that on one occasion he hadn't plugged the charger in, and on others had put the crocodiles to the wrong poles.
Phoning people in the middle of the night and then denying it. It is worrisome to get a call at 2am and hear breathing but no one there. I now unplug the phone before retiring.
Phoning restaurants to book for 40 people for a society of which he isn't a member.
Today he arrived at the bar in distress having lost his bank card after taking out some money. Made him turn out his pockets, searched his wallet and his car, and went to the bank for him to see what could be done. Rang him from the bank and he'd already found it and hadn't bothered to tell anyone. Where had he put it? In his underpants!
Turning up to be asked whether I would like some classic car magazines to read. If not, he had a friend called Tony who would have them. I am Tony.
It isn't funny I know, but it seems that as only a friend I can do nothing, and the family turn their backs. Seven slight accidents in his car in six months, and no one will take his licence off him. I could go on, but you see where I am coming from. And don't get me started on his mobile phone either.
Do you have similar experiences to recount?
Phoning me in great distress to tell me that he needed "labels for his mole". It took ten minutes to work out that the batteries in his computer mouse were dead. I checked his computer only to find that he had sent himself six emails that week and had written to a number of friends asking them for their email address. By email of course.
Complaining that his garden tractor was screwed and the battery was dead. Four times I have been over to find that on one occasion he hadn't plugged the charger in, and on others had put the crocodiles to the wrong poles.
Phoning people in the middle of the night and then denying it. It is worrisome to get a call at 2am and hear breathing but no one there. I now unplug the phone before retiring.
Phoning restaurants to book for 40 people for a society of which he isn't a member.
Today he arrived at the bar in distress having lost his bank card after taking out some money. Made him turn out his pockets, searched his wallet and his car, and went to the bank for him to see what could be done. Rang him from the bank and he'd already found it and hadn't bothered to tell anyone. Where had he put it? In his underpants!
Turning up to be asked whether I would like some classic car magazines to read. If not, he had a friend called Tony who would have them. I am Tony.
It isn't funny I know, but it seems that as only a friend I can do nothing, and the family turn their backs. Seven slight accidents in his car in six months, and no one will take his licence off him. I could go on, but you see where I am coming from. And don't get me started on his mobile phone either.
Do you have similar experiences to recount?
first up please plug your phone back in at night, take his car keys from him and sell the car, he is no fit state to drive it and may have let mot, tax or insurance or all 3 lapse. if he has an accident plod will be sympathetic but it will mean his licence being revoked, but someone may have died to get to that point.
i have a mother in law that i love dearly who has dementia, you have to laugh otherwise you will end up crying yourself to sleep every night, i know my wife does some nights if it's been a bad day with her mum.
my MIL is very funny and luckily (unlike friends who have the same issues) she is not violent at all. we have carers in 2 / 3 times a day so she can live in her own house, but we or my BIL and his wife go everyday after work.
in her more lucid moments my MIL gets upset as she feels she is a burden to the family, please don't allow him to be like that. I know he is a mate and not family, but just by posting it shows you are worried and care about him.
sorry it's not the type of post you had in mind
i have a mother in law that i love dearly who has dementia, you have to laugh otherwise you will end up crying yourself to sleep every night, i know my wife does some nights if it's been a bad day with her mum.
my MIL is very funny and luckily (unlike friends who have the same issues) she is not violent at all. we have carers in 2 / 3 times a day so she can live in her own house, but we or my BIL and his wife go everyday after work.
in her more lucid moments my MIL gets upset as she feels she is a burden to the family, please don't allow him to be like that. I know he is a mate and not family, but just by posting it shows you are worried and care about him.
sorry it's not the type of post you had in mind
I have known a number of people who were victims of dementia, and it affects not only the sufferer, but those who are the family/caregivers.
Firstly, it is critical to have a medical diagnosis done properly before jumping to conclusions in case there is some other cause, so if you can arrange for a medical exam that would be helpful. If social services can do it, so much the better.
Secondly, the degree of progression varies wildly, but it typically does progress. Give the advanced age of your friend, there is obviously a lot of danger of inadvertent self-harm. I knew one friend who came home to find that her mother had left a pot on the stove that had burnt through. If the person is living alone, it is definitely a danger. As it advances it is common for the sufferer to have bursts of anger also and in later stages they may no longer recognize even the closest loved ones.
You are right to be concerned.
Firstly, it is critical to have a medical diagnosis done properly before jumping to conclusions in case there is some other cause, so if you can arrange for a medical exam that would be helpful. If social services can do it, so much the better.
Secondly, the degree of progression varies wildly, but it typically does progress. Give the advanced age of your friend, there is obviously a lot of danger of inadvertent self-harm. I knew one friend who came home to find that her mother had left a pot on the stove that had burnt through. If the person is living alone, it is definitely a danger. As it advances it is common for the sufferer to have bursts of anger also and in later stages they may no longer recognize even the closest loved ones.
You are right to be concerned.
You could also talk to his doctor, in confidence. This will also help when contacting Social Services as a report will have been made on his records.
I strongly suggest that you don't do anything like 'taking car keys and selling cars', unless you have lasting power of attorney.
Do any of his relatives have this ?
I strongly suggest that you don't do anything like 'taking car keys and selling cars', unless you have lasting power of attorney.
Do any of his relatives have this ?
digger the goat said:
You could also talk to his doctor, in confidence. This will also helhen contacting Social Services as a report will have been made on his records.
I strongly suggest that you don't do anything like 'taking car keys and selling cars', unless you have lasting power of attorney.
Do any of his relatives have this ?
This. His doctor won't give any details to you but might not be aware how bad it is and it could be worse due to underlying infection. Don't take his car as it's theft no matter how good your intentions.I strongly suggest that you don't do anything like 'taking car keys and selling cars', unless you have lasting power of attorney.
Do any of his relatives have this ?
I am trying to deal with my mother having dementia, it is tough, however if you don't laugh you will end up crying.
Please talk to his doctor, they can remove the license, and please be there for him.
I spend hours talking absolute rubbish to mother, but it makes her happy, so I am as well.
Its tough, grinding, and if as you write, his family have turned away, please be there.
Please talk to his doctor, they can remove the license, and please be there for him.
I spend hours talking absolute rubbish to mother, but it makes her happy, so I am as well.
Its tough, grinding, and if as you write, his family have turned away, please be there.
b
d of a disease. One of my neighbours is going. He said to me last week over a chat - I won't remember any of this tomorrow.
I was going to put this in the you tube thread but it's better here. Look at the daughters face when her mum resurfaces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxDo0j6l2s8
d of a disease. One of my neighbours is going. He said to me last week over a chat - I won't remember any of this tomorrow.I was going to put this in the you tube thread but it's better here. Look at the daughters face when her mum resurfaces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxDo0j6l2s8
Lost my father a few years back after he'd suffered terribly with this for several years.
We had to stop him driving - a small white lie that the doctor had not allowed his license to renew and quickly selling the car.
It was horrible watching him slowly drift away - it started with simple forgetfulness, went through a stage of wandering off (was picked up by friends 3 miles away!) before he finally started to become violent and threatened to kill the strange woman in his house (his wife/my mother). That was the point he was finally sectioned and taken into care.
Then we had a couple of years in different hospital units before we found a a specialist care home to take him. He had a few months there but was really just an empty shell by that point - he couldn't recognise any of us, nor even speak properly.
I think what made it worse for him was that he'd already seen his two brothers go the same way and so, at the start anyway, knew what he was going to become and hated it.
We had to stop him driving - a small white lie that the doctor had not allowed his license to renew and quickly selling the car.
It was horrible watching him slowly drift away - it started with simple forgetfulness, went through a stage of wandering off (was picked up by friends 3 miles away!) before he finally started to become violent and threatened to kill the strange woman in his house (his wife/my mother). That was the point he was finally sectioned and taken into care.
Then we had a couple of years in different hospital units before we found a a specialist care home to take him. He had a few months there but was really just an empty shell by that point - he couldn't recognise any of us, nor even speak properly.
I think what made it worse for him was that he'd already seen his two brothers go the same way and so, at the start anyway, knew what he was going to become and hated it.
Lost my grandfather to Alzheimer's a few years back. Although it may sound odd, it was lucky he died relatively quickly (a year) after getting seriously bad as he was very healthy physically and it was not state to live.
To watch a furiously intelligent man who could build / repair / design / make anything struggle to operate the microwave one day (how it started) was frankly horrible.
After that, it was a quick decline into not know who where or at some points, what he was.
To watch a furiously intelligent man who could build / repair / design / make anything struggle to operate the microwave one day (how it started) was frankly horrible.
After that, it was a quick decline into not know who where or at some points, what he was.
OP i have to commend you for your concerns for your friend and thought i had to reply as reading your post took me back to 4 years ago. Some of the problems you are experiencing sound so similar to my dad, he started off pretty much the same, mum ended up caring for him up until he had a fall and was taken to hospital and that is when social services got involved as mum is ill too and really was struggling to cope.
It really is a horrible illness and we had to watch as dad was taken into a care home, it was heartbreaking, i could write all night about it but i will keep it short.
As i said, dad started off pretty much the same as your friend, then slowly, he lost the ability to communicate by speech, you could see in his eyes he was trying to summon up the words but they never got out, mobility went and then he was transferred to a nursing home as he required so much care.
The illness slowly took him apart bit by bit until he lost his fight with it 5 days before christmas last year, i would given up everything just to have had just one more decent conversation with him before he went.
My point? please do all you can for your friend, if you can get in contact with his family, try to get them to understand so they can help, show them this thread, anything. Failing that please get social services involved, they can arrange for memory tests for assessment of him, we had these for dad and he ended up on some medication that did help slow the progression.
Best of luck OP, you sound like a great friend, it may not be the type of post you were expecting but it really is a FG SY illness and my heart goes out to everyone, family friends and sufferers, who have been through, or going through this.
Mark
It really is a horrible illness and we had to watch as dad was taken into a care home, it was heartbreaking, i could write all night about it but i will keep it short.
As i said, dad started off pretty much the same as your friend, then slowly, he lost the ability to communicate by speech, you could see in his eyes he was trying to summon up the words but they never got out, mobility went and then he was transferred to a nursing home as he required so much care.
The illness slowly took him apart bit by bit until he lost his fight with it 5 days before christmas last year, i would given up everything just to have had just one more decent conversation with him before he went.
My point? please do all you can for your friend, if you can get in contact with his family, try to get them to understand so they can help, show them this thread, anything. Failing that please get social services involved, they can arrange for memory tests for assessment of him, we had these for dad and he ended up on some medication that did help slow the progression.
Best of luck OP, you sound like a great friend, it may not be the type of post you were expecting but it really is a F
G SY illness and my heart goes out to everyone, family friends and sufferers, who have been through, or going through this.Mark
I thank you all profoundly for your replies, and those also who took the trouble to email me. I forgot to explain that we live in France, and here the state only interferes if you have no relations, and the problem also is that if a nursing home is warranted (and I feel it is) the family have to pay the balance if his income isn't adequate, and it surely isn't given today's costs. So they don't want to pay and look the other way. He has a cleaner, but his clothes are food-stained, he doesn't change them, and I am sure you all have suffered with the TV problem; you know - "the effing thing won't work properly and I can't find the right channel". Just presses any button, puts it on the aerial and not the satellite and has no idea he's done it. Yesterday he had the menu screen up and rang me, but short of driving 20 miles there and back every day I can't cure that. He phoned a TV company to sort it out which is stupid from our point of view but not his since nothing is ever his fault.
As regards his driving, I spoke to the chemist (they called me out a while back when he was there completely disoriented and we had him taken to hospital that time) who spoke to his doctor but no one seems to intervene at all. I am now going to see the doctor myself, since he is a danger and as always, it won't be him that gets hurt.
Taking away someone's freedom is not a thing to be tackled lightly, and as I'm getting on for 70 I feel the chill wind too, but I now feel that I don't want the death of someone on my conscience if I can prevent it, so he has to be stopped from driving. oh, and on that subject he has now decided to take his Spitfire for an MOT so he can use it again. I disconnected the battery.
Once again, thank you all for letting me let off steam. It helps a bit.
As regards his driving, I spoke to the chemist (they called me out a while back when he was there completely disoriented and we had him taken to hospital that time) who spoke to his doctor but no one seems to intervene at all. I am now going to see the doctor myself, since he is a danger and as always, it won't be him that gets hurt.
Taking away someone's freedom is not a thing to be tackled lightly, and as I'm getting on for 70 I feel the chill wind too, but I now feel that I don't want the death of someone on my conscience if I can prevent it, so he has to be stopped from driving. oh, and on that subject he has now decided to take his Spitfire for an MOT so he can use it again. I disconnected the battery.
Once again, thank you all for letting me let off steam. It helps a bit.
Hello lowdrag. I'm in France too and went through this with my own father and housebound and immobile mother in 2010/2011 but they were in the UK. My father started by getting forgetful then progressed over the months to being dangerous, he would hit my mother for nothing in particular she would 'phone me here in France saying he'd been violent again and I'd speak to him and he would say that she was lying and he hadn't done anything in the end he couldn't even walk the 100 yards to the local shop with a note of what he wanted and money in an envelope as he'd lost both by the time he got there then couldn't find his way back home. It got very bad and I was constantly driving back and forth to the UK often after just a few days back here I would have to drive back there again for yet another emergency. In the end I had to stay there for a long period as it was impossible to leave them alone, my mother had cancer (lung and bladder) but wouldn't admit that she was deteriorating and what was happening to her and wouldn't accept home help as she didn't want anyone in the house. In the end on one long trip I did arrange for home help as the situation was impossible and I had to pay a proportion of that cost to the council I remember. That was OK for about 6 months then I had to have my dad put away in a specialised dementia care home and he went from being quite a strapping old boy to a curled up skeleton wearing a nappy in about 3 months during which time my mothers cancer took it's toll and she died. We did take my dad to the funeral on the advice of his carer at the home but he didn't know what was going on and showed no emotion whatsoever other than to say "we were together a long time weren't we" and that was it he didn't speak again but died in hospital 8 weeks after my mothers funeral, we lost both between November and January, she was 87 he was 90.
I feel for you as what is happening is not nice at all and looking back I don't know how I stayed sane with all the worry and always think I should have moved back to the UK to be there for them, I guess that's the guilt that will never leave me. Good luck and be there for him, he needs you.
I feel for you as what is happening is not nice at all and looking back I don't know how I stayed sane with all the worry and always think I should have moved back to the UK to be there for them, I guess that's the guilt that will never leave me. Good luck and be there for him, he needs you.
As an update - and sorry to carry on - my friend rang today. He was rude and vicious for the first time, saying the TV problems were down to me and that his credit card had been in his wallet all the time and that I was a waste of space. Also, that my comments on his driving and accidents were a tissue of lies and that he had driven to Paris twice in the last week to go shopping. I can't take any more of this and have told the family that they have a week to get this sorted or I will go to the doctor, the gendarmerie, the town and county council and move heaven and earth until something is done. Knowing the French I don't hold out much hope, but I will go as far as I can.
Bringing this topic up to date, the general impression in the UK is that the French medical service is the best. That might be true as far as hospitals are concerned, but for the rest it is fractured or non-existent. After 25 calls in one week (and I am one of many) I went to the gendarmerie to see what can be done. Absolutely nothing, was the reply. They are aware of him, but can not make him take a medical or withdraw his licence until there is due cause, such as a serious accident or excess alcohol. They can invite him to have a medical, but if he doesn't show up they can't act. So on I go to his local town hall to see if there is any safety net such as Social Services. Once again, the reply was negative and the woman I spoke to is a neighbour of his and suffering like the rest of us. So, in desperation I contacted the county council, with the same response. So there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do; his driving licence here is for life, and untouchable, and there is no medical service available if he doesn't ask for it himself. We set up a nurse and meals on wheels but he cancelled them. Believe me, at ground level people want to act, but are powerless. What a shocking state of affairs in this day and age. I visited him yesterday for a chat and all I got was complaints that I am never there any more for him and nor is anyone else. Then a friend turned up to show him how to turn a battery cut-out switch on, something I'd done four times in a month. Ashamedly, during this moment I deleted my numbers from his phone. Then I saw him later at the bar and he started going on about how a certain friend had completely let him down. When asked by another friend, he said my name. I quietly asked him who I was, to be told we'd never met. I'm sorry, but for my own sanity I have had to drop out. The family have now given him an ultimatum; accommodation with medical assistance or they wash their hands of him. It has had to come to that for all our sakes.
Edited by lowdrag on Wednesday 17th September 08:24
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