Just need to express my thoughts

[Hughmanbean]

I'm a regular member here, and posting this under an alias (sorry if its rule braking mods) as I know some friends and a family member visits the forum regularly, and I don't feel I can go to them about this. So I'm just writing this to get it out there.
There's no need to reply or feel any pity for me btw!


My wife an I have been together for a little over 10 years and during this time we have spoken openly about starting a family when things are going well. She has suffered from anxiety and depression since she was a teen and has sought counselling and therapy which helped a lot over the years, but as with all mental conditions relapses are still prominent.

Earlier this year we made the decision that as we were both in secure jobs now is the 'going well' point in our lives where we have wanted to be before starting a family, so she stopped with contraception and we began trying, months have ticked by since then and we thought on 2 occasions that we had been successful, but nature took its course and we continued trying.
back at the start of the summer she started to get low, so we talked it over and asked if still trying was a good idea, she thought it would be as she was "just having a moment" with work getting more stressful around the summer months she has got like this for a few years since she got the promotion, which was a forced promotion but at the time the benefits seemed to outweigh the negatives of redundancy and job hunting!

Now this is where things get more complicated for us, she hit a low point in work, but managed to cover it up from myself and her family, I could usually tell when it was getting tough but somehow this time I couldn't, maybe I was too busy dealing with my work issues to notice, maybe she just got better at hiding it?

Around 3 weeks ago she took an overdose, not a fatal one thank god, more of a cry for help/wanting to drown out the anxious thoughts in her head, she estimated taking about 7-10 co-codamol tablets over the course of a few hours. I didn't immediately know about the overdose as I was working late shifts that night. I only found out when I got home to find her in a ball on the sofa sobbing uncontrollably. She told me what she had done and I contacted the out of hours doctor who insisted I took her to get checked out, but as she was refusing they said to keep an eye on her and if she showed any signs of ill health to take her immediate to A&E, aside from feeling ashamed of what she had done she had no other problems from it. She has been signed off work since then with stress and anxiety.

It wasn't until a week and a half ago that she realised she was late. with everything that has been going on she obviously hasn't been keeping track of things. We took a test when we realised she was a week late and it came back negative. I assumed she was all over the place hormonally due to the stress which can cause it. we took another test last Saturday as she still hadn't come on and this would be 2 weeks late. This one came back positive.
She broke down, I stood there in disbelief. we talked all day about our options before agreeing that a termination would be the best option for both her mental and physical state and for the baby's. so we made the necessary contacts to who we needed to and the ball is in motion.

Except, now I am having second thoughts, I've loved the idea of my wife carrying our baby for a long time, and this situation now has never been even a tiny speck of a though in my mind until this week.
I've been honest with my wife about having second thoughts, but she can not change her mind, and I know that if we do keep the baby and it is born with any sort of problem, physically or mentally then she will never forgive herself for taking that overdoes, even if all the doctors in the world told her that what she did had no effect on the baby's development. she would always be thinking it.
the nurse we spoke to at a family planning clinic to get the termination under way couldn't put her at ease that she wouldn't have harmed the development, mainly because she couldn't say it for sure. The doctor we had to speak to to authorise the termination process agreed that it isn't the best time for us with everything my wife is feeling.

So this week I have been up and down with my feelings over this whole situation, one minute I understand the reasons were doing what were doing, then I feel elated that my wife is pregnant with our child.
All the time she is crying and just wants it over with now, if she could do it today she would. But we need to wait until Monday to get the process started.

I in no way resent or feel any hatred towards my wife for what she's done, overdose or not, now still isnt right with her feeling so low.
I just cant shake the doubts in my mind.

We cant talk to her parents about this as they would try and convince her to go through with it by giving more false promises of help and support. Like the time she had to take a few months off work years ago through depression and severe anxiety, she talked it over with them, they agreed to be there and support us. Then jetted off to America for a month and a half to see her brother out there!

We cant talk to our group of friends as they all have a family and have been pestering us to start our own, and I just don't feel they'd be as understanding as she needs. I don't want to talk to anyone I know really as I don't want to be pitied or judged, not that I know they would but I cant risk it for my wife's mental state.
It isn't helping having pregnant work colleagues surrounding me right now either.

So that's my life for the last fortnight or so, and I just needed to get it out of my head.

Sorry if its all over the place and mainly blabber.


I'll sign off by wishing you all reading this a Merry Christmas and a Happy new year, but please excuse me if mine isn't quite as merry and happy

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Wow. What a tough situation.

I know nothing about mental health problems or stress/anxiety, but I do know that having a new baby is the most stressful thing I've ever done. I've got 2 and it's a nightmare. It's also wonderful but not something I would want to try if starting from any point other than 100% mentally fit and healthy.

My guess is that termination is the right option, quite apart from the possible damage done by the overdose. If she's struggling to keep her head above water mentally now, a new baby is going to be like a concrete boot, believe me.

[grumbledoak]

Sounds awful. I'm sorry to say it, but it sounds like not having the baby is for the best under the circumstances.

Your problem is - what are you going to do next? Her back on contraception? The doctors won't do that forever. Get your own tubes tied? How much do you want kids yourself? You might want to leave those decisions 'til the New Year. Do what you can to get through Christmas.

All the best.

Edited by grumbledoak on Saturday 20th December 17:41

[CAPP0]

I can't offer you a solution but I'd just like to offer my commiserations for the terrible situation you find yourself in. I can completely empathise with some, although not all, aspects of your position.

Hope things work out as well as they can for you both and that you can both find the way to move forward. Good luck, chin up.

[Hammer67]

IIWY I would get your wife out of her job, permanently, then spend some months de-stressing about everything and when your both ready try again.

Whatever you do, good luck OP.

[hidetheelephants]

My first reaction is that a depressed person should not be opting for a procedure which can cause profound depression and grief, my second is that the pair of you need to see a psychiatrist pronto and probably a counsellor as well to talk about the best way forward. You need to speak to a paeds specialist about what if any effect the pills may have had.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Saturday 20th December 18:54

[Tribal Chestnut]

Having a child with any kind of disability, particularly if it's one you could have prevented, is very hard.

The decision to abort is difficult, but probably the right one, although if you make it, it's one you'll have to struggle with for a long time to come.

Perhaps it's awful to say so, but unless someone is physically and mentally healthy enough, they should not have a child. The chance of things working out for the best in such circumstances are, IMO, not brilliant.

[BlackVanDyke]

hidetheelephants said:

My first reaction is that a depressed person should not be opting for a procedure which can cause profound depression and grief, my second is that the pair of you need to see a psychiatrist pronto and probably a counsellor as well to talk about the best way forward. You need to speak to a paeds specialist about what if any effect the pills may have had.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Saturday 20th December 18:54

Cocodamol isn't known for being a bad one for pregnancy - probably shouldn't be a major factor in decision making either way.

There are such huge pros and cons to this, it's so deeply personal to you and your other half and here are so many factors we don't know - but I'm glad to see someone make a space for the possibility that a termination could make things worse, as well as better. I don't know how old your GF is but a) 6 or 7 months is a lot of time to get some help if this pregnancy continued (and perinatal psychiatry is a relatively well supported area in some NHS trusts - a friend has recently had excellent care from Wythenshawe hospital in Manchester) and b) given you've struggled to conceive, and that you do in general want kids, what would it do to you both if you weren't able to conceive again after this pregnancy? It's only a tiny risk but because of its potential impact it's worth some thought.

No easy answers. I'm sorry for your troubles and hope things improve, whatever choice your girlfriend makes.

PS it's just occurred to me that the hormonal changes could have been the *cause* of your GF's episode.

[Hughmanbean]

Thanks all for the replies. as I said above I'm not after pity or expecting answers off you all, I just needed to get my thoughts out somewhere where no one knew me, or at least under an alias as I have now.

I'll reply to a few points made, but again, thanks for those who've offered condolences.

grumbledoak said:

Your problem is - what are you going to do next? Her back on contraception? The doctors won't do that forever. Get your own tubes tied? How much do you want kids yourself? You might want to leave those decisions 'til the New Year. Do what you can to get through Christmas.

We've already discussed this and decided using contraception for the future will be the best option until she's better. We do both still want kids, but as I said originally when were both in a comfortable place. I am aware that that comfortable place may never return if she keeps having anxiety attacks. But guess we can only tackle that hurdle when it approaches.

Hammer67 said:

IIWY I would get your wife out of her job, permanently, then spend some months de-stressing about everything and when your both ready try again.

Whatever you do, good luck OP.

We've been trying to get her out of the job for about a year now, she's applied for various other jobs, mostly getting interviews to only find out that she is just 'not quite experienced enough' or 'far too overqualified for such a menial job'.
She's convinced that her boss has put in a word to other departments when she's applied for internal positions.
She had an interview Monday, and it went amazingly (interviewers words) but for the fact that the person appointed the position is the one currently acting up she'd have been a walk in he said.
We're waiting on hearing back on a few other applications she's submitted.

hidetheelephants said:

My first reaction is that a depressed person should not be opting for a procedure which can cause profound depression and grief, my second is that the pair of you need to see a psychiatrist pronto and probably a counsellor as well to talk about the best way forward. You need to speak to a paeds specialist about what if any effect the pills may have had.

I know what your saying, and agree. however for my wife the thought of having this baby and the possibility of any adverse effects of the overdose is more distressing to her than the thought of aborting.
Sadly it seems the NHS is more available to carry out terminations at this time of year than they are to refer us to a specialist. The doctor we spoke too last week said we'd be lucky to see anyone before February with the current list of emergency waiting lists.
I do understand that this time of year isn't the most ideal time to be going through this and people do need their time off, we cant expect medical professionals to work 365 days a year.

Tribal Chestnut said:

Perhaps it's awful to say so, but unless someone is physically and mentally healthy enough, they should not have a child. The chance of things working out for the best in such circumstances are, IMO, not brilliant.

again I agree completely with this statement. And we honestly thought we were, but with all mental health issues it can turn from amazing to bad in a split second.

BlackVanDyke said:

b) given you've struggled to conceive, and that you do in general want kids, what would it do to you both if you weren't able to conceive again after this pregnancy? It's only a tiny risk but because of its potential impact it's worth some thought.

PS it's just occurred to me that the hormonal changes could have been the *cause* of your GF's episode.

I wouldn't say we've struggled to conceived, we were more or less just going with the flow and not expecting her to catch at the first time of trying, I'd put a time frame of a 8months to a year of trying before we questioned our virility.
There is some small consolation in this that we can see that we are fortunate enough to conceive naturally right now. and were both still young enough that if we need to hold out for a few years we can, (obviously aware of the chances decreasing year after year, but I'm only 33 and she's 28. I know, worst "I've got a hot younger wife" post ever )

I did think that this may have been a cause of the episode. But looking back its been building over the course of months since work started getting at her again, she just got better at hiding it.


Sorry to have waffled on again, but I appreciate the ones here who've listened and replied. I just needed to get things out of my brain.
Now to finish off work and make it to tesco express to pick up a bottle of Winter Jack to help with it all.

[hidetheelephants]

Hughmanbean said:

hidetheelephants said:

My first reaction is that a depressed person should not be opting for a procedure which can cause profound depression and grief, my second is that the pair of you need to see a psychiatrist pronto and probably a counsellor as well to talk about the best way forward. You need to speak to a paeds specialist about what if any effect the pills may have had.

I know what your saying, and agree. however for my wife the thought of having this baby and the possibility of any adverse effects of the overdose is more distressing to her than the thought of aborting.
Sadly it seems the NHS is more available to carry out terminations at this time of year than they are to refer us to a specialist. The doctor we spoke too last week said we'd be lucky to see anyone before February with the current list of emergency waiting lists.
I do understand that this time of year isn't the most ideal time to be going through this and people do need their time off, we cant expect medical professionals to work 365 days a year.

NHS mental health services are poorly funded compared to pretty much any other part of the NHS(at a guess success/failure metrics are much harder to apply, therefore pretty spreadsheets can't be filled in as easily); if you can afford it, go private and be seen now when you need it, not in 6 weeks time.

Given she's depressed be aware of how that will colour every thought and in ways that seem ridiculous to those who aren't ill. The sooner she can start on some CBT and/or meds the better.

[mph1977]

hidetheelephants said:

My first reaction is that a depressed person should not be opting for a procedure which can cause profound depression and grief, my second is that the pair of you need to see a psychiatrist pronto and probably a counsellor as well to talk about the best way forward. You need to speak to a paeds specialist about what if any effect the pills may have had.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Saturday 20th December 18:54

absolutely i agree with Hidetheelephants on this

Depression is not a reason to jump for a ToP as the default choice, having a termination can cause as many problems psychologically as it solves .

if the OP's OH had a greater history of psychiatric issues and was regularly ODing , getting admitted , having to have antipsychotics or mood stabilisers it might be a different matter.

[Anonamoose]

II'm sorry for the abolsutey horrific circumstances you've found yourselves in, must be incredibly hard for both of you.

There will be no easy decision to make, termination can could cause as many issues as having the baby, but will they be as long term as they would be if the baby was born with a disability. You're wife will likely recover from the termination within months (with the right support). If she had the baby and he/she was born with a disability that would be a daily reminder of one of the worst times of her life, even with the best of doctors telling her it isn't her fault, she would likely blame herself forever.

As much as the baby is both of yours, what your wife wants has to take precedence, as at the end of it all, she will be the one at home, with the baby. First time motherhood can be incredibly isolating in those first months espcially if the mother is already fragile. It could do more harm than good for both of them.

Also keep in mind if she keeps the pregnancy and sees a psychiatrist there might be a chance that social services will be informed? I'm not sure whether that is true but something to bear in mind.

Of course it could all go fine, and the baby is fine (co-codamol isn't too adverse and in the first couple of weeks baby isn't actually taking anything from Mum's blood supply as the placenta hasn't formed) but there are no guarantees.

Lastly if you have the termination before 9 weeks then all your wife has to do is take two pills and nature will take its course. Admittedly it's still worse than a normal menstruation but a damn sight less invasive and traumatic than a termination at a later date.

Again I'm really sorry :-(