Caught between running and lifting
Discussion
I've been doing some sport or another for most of my life, cardio and weights.
I'm a 1m80, 82kg mesomorph.
For the last 10 or so years it's been running once a week, sometimes doing exercises on the route, and weights twice a week, including deadlifts, benchpress and latpulls.
I don't have a good physique for running long distance (too tall and heavy) but don't have great genes to build muscle (too tall and wirely, hard gainer).
The thing is doing both is really important to me but it seems like they are counter productive. Doing the weights seems to tire me out for running and vice versa. For each to develop you need to do them at least twice a week.
Lately I've been training for a 10km race and so have stopped the weights and been running 3 times a week. After just 2 weeks of doing this I'm running 16km at a time the prospect of which I would have laughed at a few months ago. A half marathon is looking easily doable and even a marathon possible.
But I really miss the weights and can feel the upper body shrinking away but I know that as soon as I start lifting again the running will suffer. You don't see long distance runners doing squats etc right?
Does anybody combine these 2 sports succesfully and if so, how do you do it?
I'm a 1m80, 82kg mesomorph.
For the last 10 or so years it's been running once a week, sometimes doing exercises on the route, and weights twice a week, including deadlifts, benchpress and latpulls.
I don't have a good physique for running long distance (too tall and heavy) but don't have great genes to build muscle (too tall and wirely, hard gainer).
The thing is doing both is really important to me but it seems like they are counter productive. Doing the weights seems to tire me out for running and vice versa. For each to develop you need to do them at least twice a week.
Lately I've been training for a 10km race and so have stopped the weights and been running 3 times a week. After just 2 weeks of doing this I'm running 16km at a time the prospect of which I would have laughed at a few months ago. A half marathon is looking easily doable and even a marathon possible.
But I really miss the weights and can feel the upper body shrinking away but I know that as soon as I start lifting again the running will suffer. You don't see long distance runners doing squats etc right?
Does anybody combine these 2 sports succesfully and if so, how do you do it?
Of course you see long distance runners doing weights. The good ones do anyway. You should base your weight training program around running performance, so you get some weight training in - and can squeeze some upper body work into the program too - and it will not just sit nicely alongside your running, it should help improve it. You just need someone who knows what they're doing to design you a strength and conditioning program for your running.
TheBALDpuma said:
Driller said:
I stupidy forgot some very important info: I can only train 3 times a week.
No reason why that can't be 2 runs a week, and a gym session. Or train concurrently, and do 30 mins of weight training before a run 1 or 2 out of the 3 times a week.
And to take the weight training more seriously (which is also very important to me) you have to do this at least 3 times a week.
I suppose I was looking to share the problem with others in the same situation.
None of the serious runners I know do weight training 3+ times a week.
Driller said:
I've been doing some sport or another for most of my life, cardio and weights.
I'm a 1m80, 82kg mesomorph.
For the last 10 or so years it's been running once a week, sometimes doing exercises on the route, and weights twice a week, including deadlifts, benchpress and latpulls.
I don't have a good physique for running long distance (too tall and heavy) but don't have great genes to build muscle (too tall and wirely, hard gainer).
The thing is doing both is really important to me but it seems like they are counter productive. Doing the weights seems to tire me out for running and vice versa. For each to develop you need to do them at least twice a week.
Lately I've been training for a 10km race and so have stopped the weights and been running 3 times a week. After just 2 weeks of doing this I'm running 16km at a time the prospect of which I would have laughed at a few months ago. A half marathon is looking easily doable and even a marathon possible.
But I really miss the weights and can feel the upper body shrinking away but I know that as soon as I start lifting again the running will suffer. You don't see long distance runners doing squats etc right?
Does anybody combine these 2 sports succesfully and if so, how do you do it?
You do see serious distance runners doing weights. My gym routine when I was training seriously for steeplechase/5000m on track included squats, cleans, deadlifts and bench press. I'd do that twice a week plus one body-weight circuits session (and running 7-10 times a week of course). The goal was to gain strength and flexibility without putting on muscle.I'm a 1m80, 82kg mesomorph.
For the last 10 or so years it's been running once a week, sometimes doing exercises on the route, and weights twice a week, including deadlifts, benchpress and latpulls.
I don't have a good physique for running long distance (too tall and heavy) but don't have great genes to build muscle (too tall and wirely, hard gainer).
The thing is doing both is really important to me but it seems like they are counter productive. Doing the weights seems to tire me out for running and vice versa. For each to develop you need to do them at least twice a week.
Lately I've been training for a 10km race and so have stopped the weights and been running 3 times a week. After just 2 weeks of doing this I'm running 16km at a time the prospect of which I would have laughed at a few months ago. A half marathon is looking easily doable and even a marathon possible.
But I really miss the weights and can feel the upper body shrinking away but I know that as soon as I start lifting again the running will suffer. You don't see long distance runners doing squats etc right?
Does anybody combine these 2 sports succesfully and if so, how do you do it?
I agree that to improve you need to do your target activity 3 times a week minimum, so I think you've got 2 choices:
1. Choose to prioritise weights OR running, not both.
2. Combine weights and running each time - so run to the gym or run before the weights session.
Of course, if you can work out a way to fit in running on the other days then even better - I now often run-commute, so get the train part way to work and run the rest. Friends drive part way, park, run to work, run back to the car in the evening. Obviously this depends on your home, work and commute circumstances etc.
I'd guarantee if you ask your serious runner friends if they think they should be doing more core/weights they would say yes. It's easy to skip it though when you barely have enough time to fit in the running never mind the gym too.
Driller said:
TheBALDpuma said:
Driller said:
I stupidy forgot some very important info: I can only train 3 times a week.
No reason why that can't be 2 runs a week, and a gym session. Or train concurrently, and do 30 mins of weight training before a run 1 or 2 out of the 3 times a week.And to take the weight training more seriously (which is also very important to me) you have to do this at least 3 times a week.
I suppose I was looking to share the problem with others in the same situation.
None of the serious runners I know do weight training 3+ times a week.
One or two weights sessions a week will help, and compliment your running program. You will also be able to do weights, followed by running and recover well but it might take a little getting used to. You just need to make sure you do the right kind of training.
If as you say you want to "take the weight training more seriously" and you really want to gain some muscle mass and focus on this, then you need to prioritise the weight training. For someone who is a hard gainer running 3 x per week is going to make it that much harder as a)time spent running when you could be lifting and b)calories burnt running when you find it hard to put on weight anyway.
You can't have three slots per week, have three runs and three seperate weight sessions, because that's six sessions. So, figure out what's important to you and choose. But as I have said, you can very legitamtly use 1 or 2 shortish weight training sessions a week to help improve your running performance and allow you to build a bit of mass.
I'm the same
I swim 3-4 times a week. In the past I used to swim 10 times a week. I have swam in some competitive form for the past 20 years. But it does feel directly at odd with weight training in the gym. What is more, I don't think I have read anything yet that suggest improvements in the weight room = tangible improvements in the pool. Certainly read a few studies on this, including one where they found doing squats and land based jumping exercises did absolutely nothing for dive performance. In-fact doing dives was the only way to improve dive performance and many suggest swimming with added drag is the best way to improve pulling strength.
But, all the top swimmers do weights. They all do olympic style lifts, squats, pull ups, dips and more, including a boat load of core work (which I think does actually help, but at the end of the day you aren't supporting your own body in the water...the water is doing that for you).
I do 5x5 strong lifts and supplement with core work, pull ups and other motions that mimic swimming. There must be something to it because everyone does it, the americans, the british, the french.
I feel I can't just stop swimming to concentrate on weights. I'd lose far more ground than I'd gain. Its a very CV sport (aerobic and anaerobic) and also one that relies on feel of the water. It can take awhile to get that back after being out of the water for weeks. little changes in stroke efficiency can have a huge impact. Additionally there is also much more to gain by reducing drag (because of water density and drag's squared relationship to speed) than there is increasing power.
By that logic I should just do more swimming, more stroke work. But I feel I can't give up the weights either. Its also difficult to eat enough food to support it all!
Guess I'll just muddle on!
I swim 3-4 times a week. In the past I used to swim 10 times a week. I have swam in some competitive form for the past 20 years. But it does feel directly at odd with weight training in the gym. What is more, I don't think I have read anything yet that suggest improvements in the weight room = tangible improvements in the pool. Certainly read a few studies on this, including one where they found doing squats and land based jumping exercises did absolutely nothing for dive performance. In-fact doing dives was the only way to improve dive performance and many suggest swimming with added drag is the best way to improve pulling strength.
But, all the top swimmers do weights. They all do olympic style lifts, squats, pull ups, dips and more, including a boat load of core work (which I think does actually help, but at the end of the day you aren't supporting your own body in the water...the water is doing that for you).
I do 5x5 strong lifts and supplement with core work, pull ups and other motions that mimic swimming. There must be something to it because everyone does it, the americans, the british, the french.
I feel I can't just stop swimming to concentrate on weights. I'd lose far more ground than I'd gain. Its a very CV sport (aerobic and anaerobic) and also one that relies on feel of the water. It can take awhile to get that back after being out of the water for weeks. little changes in stroke efficiency can have a huge impact. Additionally there is also much more to gain by reducing drag (because of water density and drag's squared relationship to speed) than there is increasing power.
By that logic I should just do more swimming, more stroke work. But I feel I can't give up the weights either. Its also difficult to eat enough food to support it all!
Guess I'll just muddle on!
Otispunkmeyer said:
I'm the same
But, all the top swimmers do weights. They all do olympic style lifts, squats, pull ups, dips and more, including a boat load of core work (which I think does actually help, but at the end of the day you aren't supporting your own body in the water...the water is doing that for you).
Core work for swimmers is important for exactly that reason - because the water supports you it's very easy just to allow the core to be loose.. This means you'll see swimmers who's backs fall into extension when they are swimming as their cores are weak as piss. This means that they have a weaker base to swim from, and also puts them in a less aquadynamic position as drag is increased due to floppy backs.But, all the top swimmers do weights. They all do olympic style lifts, squats, pull ups, dips and more, including a boat load of core work (which I think does actually help, but at the end of the day you aren't supporting your own body in the water...the water is doing that for you).
TheBALDpuma said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
I'm the same
But, all the top swimmers do weights. They all do olympic style lifts, squats, pull ups, dips and more, including a boat load of core work (which I think does actually help, but at the end of the day you aren't supporting your own body in the water...the water is doing that for you).
Core work for swimmers is important for exactly that reason - because the water supports you it's very easy just to allow the core to be loose.. This means you'll see swimmers who's backs fall into extension when they are swimming as their cores are weak as piss. This means that they have a weaker base to swim from, and also puts them in a less aquadynamic position as drag is increased due to floppy backs.But, all the top swimmers do weights. They all do olympic style lifts, squats, pull ups, dips and more, including a boat load of core work (which I think does actually help, but at the end of the day you aren't supporting your own body in the water...the water is doing that for you).
Thanks for the helpful replies and info.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that to have good results with the weights I have to go full on at it because of my body type and the same goes for the running. Obviously I can't do both and I'm not good at compromise hence the problem.
Have to keep muddling on then. Maybe do 2 runs and 1 compound weights session per week as suggested.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that to have good results with the weights I have to go full on at it because of my body type and the same goes for the running. Obviously I can't do both and I'm not good at compromise hence the problem.
Have to keep muddling on then. Maybe do 2 runs and 1 compound weights session per week as suggested.
Hoofy said:
TBH doing what you prefer to do and enjoy is going to reap rewards in the long term rather than forcing yourself to do something you would really rather not.
Tru dat. I'm really not built for running either. Always been broad set, even with a decent BF % level and abs showing, I have a very thick core. I'm built for powerlifting and lucky to have the levers perfect for the compound movements, so I'm sticking with that for now.Hoofy said:
TBH doing what you prefer to do and enjoy is going to reap rewards in the long term rather than forcing yourself to do something you would really rather not.
Exactly. Unless you're aiming for a specific competition it's far more important that you enjoy your exercise than it is to maximise the results.
Driller said:
For the last 10 or so years it's been running once a week, sometimes doing exercises on the route, and weights twice a week, including deadlifts, benchpress and latpulls.
I don't have a good physique for running long distance (too tall and heavy) but don't have great genes to build muscle (too tall and wirely, hard gainer).
The thing is doing both is really important to me but it seems like they are counter productive. Doing the weights seems to tire me out for running and vice versa. For each to develop you need to do them at least twice a week.
Lately I've been training for a 10km race and so have stopped the weights and been running 3 times a week. After just 2 weeks of doing this I'm running 16km at a time the prospect of which I would have laughed at a few months ago. A half marathon is looking easily doable and even a marathon possible.
But I really miss the weights and can feel the upper body shrinking away but I know that as soon as I start lifting again the running will suffer. You don't see long distance runners doing squats etc right?
Does anybody combine these 2 sports succesfully and if so, how do you do it?
This has been my bugbear for years now. I like to run, but I also like the weights. I figured out year ago that running and squats do not mix. I started strength training back in October, but now I need to train for my 10k in May. So now the 3x5 strength needs to go, and I am gonna get back to a single day 20 rep scheme, with also a bodyweight day with no lower body stuff. Squats and deadlifts can hamper my running, so the weight there is being dropped.I don't have a good physique for running long distance (too tall and heavy) but don't have great genes to build muscle (too tall and wirely, hard gainer).
The thing is doing both is really important to me but it seems like they are counter productive. Doing the weights seems to tire me out for running and vice versa. For each to develop you need to do them at least twice a week.
Lately I've been training for a 10km race and so have stopped the weights and been running 3 times a week. After just 2 weeks of doing this I'm running 16km at a time the prospect of which I would have laughed at a few months ago. A half marathon is looking easily doable and even a marathon possible.
But I really miss the weights and can feel the upper body shrinking away but I know that as soon as I start lifting again the running will suffer. You don't see long distance runners doing squats etc right?
Does anybody combine these 2 sports succesfully and if so, how do you do it?
Halb said:
This has been my bugbear for years now. I like to run, but I also like the weights. I figured out year ago that running and squats do not mix. I started strength training back in October, but now I need to train for my 10k in May. So now the 3x5 strength needs to go, and I am gonna get back to a single day 20 rep scheme, with also a bodyweight day with no lower body stuff. Squats and deadlifts can hamper my running, so the weight there is being dropped.
Yes the post I was waiting for and it's good old Halb! 
I'm so glad you get the squats thing: how can you go out and do 10-15km the day or even a few days after destroying your legs with squats?
Funnily enough I always had you down as a full on endomorph weights monster but that doesn't seem to be the case.
What exercises do you do in your 20 rep scheme?
This may be helpful to those wishing to run and strength train:
Part 1: http://www.completehumanperformance.com/so-you-wan...
Part 2: http://www.completehumanperformance.com/so-you-wan...
Guy who writes the articles does marathons, ultramarathons, triathlons and powerlifting, and aims to achieve both a sub-eleven hour Ironman and an Elite powerlifting total in the 220 pound class.
Knows his stuff- Website has some other useful bits too.
Part 1: http://www.completehumanperformance.com/so-you-wan...
Part 2: http://www.completehumanperformance.com/so-you-wan...
Guy who writes the articles does marathons, ultramarathons, triathlons and powerlifting, and aims to achieve both a sub-eleven hour Ironman and an Elite powerlifting total in the 220 pound class.
Knows his stuff- Website has some other useful bits too.
Driller said:
Halb said:
This has been my bugbear for years now. I like to run, but I also like the weights. I figured out year ago that running and squats do not mix. I started strength training back in October, but now I need to train for my 10k in May. So now the 3x5 strength needs to go, and I am gonna get back to a single day 20 rep scheme, with also a bodyweight day with no lower body stuff. Squats and deadlifts can hamper my running, so the weight there is being dropped.
Yes the post I was waiting for and it's good old Halb! I'm so glad you get the squats thing: how can you go out and do 10-15km the day or even a few days after destroying your legs with squats?
Funnily enough I always had you down as a full on endomorph weights monster but that doesn't seem to be the case.
What exercises do you do in your 20 rep scheme?
You don't need to destroy your legs when you squat and the two can be and regularly are done together. You won't find a single high level river who doesn't squat.
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