Where to go next? - testosterone issue.
Discussion
I have spoken to the Dr over the phone earlier who had a chat with an endocrinologist about my low testosterone.
He said they wouldn't do anything as I was in the "normal" range.
This is not the first time this has happened, last year I was told by the endocrinologist to lose weight. Having lost 30kg for a different reason my levels have not improved.
I'm a 23yr old male, active in the gym strength training 4-5x a week and have a fairly decent diet.
My testosterone levels have been as low as 225ng/dl up to around 350ng/dl (when I thought there was finally improvement halfway through weight loss) but my most recent one is 275ng/dl.
So twice the Dr has said they wouldn't do anything, won't investigate and that's that.
I've told him issues I'm having such as random nose bleeds (which happened last time it went low) which he said isn't related.
My hair has gone thinner (started to go thicker as my levels went up) and again said it was unrelated.
Sleeping more which he said isn't related.
Sex drive is very low but isn't concerned because I can get a hard on.
I don't know if anyone can recommend how to get a 2nd opinion? I think a different dr from the same practice will say the same thing since I'm already on the 2nd one after the first dismissed me because I can grow facial hair (which took months!).
I'm considering what a friend did and self administering test which he said was the best thing he ever did. He's only running trt levels but has noticed huge improvements with mood etc.
Steroids was something I've considered in the future anyway to have a go at WSM but didn't think I'd be considering it so soon.
He said they wouldn't do anything as I was in the "normal" range.
This is not the first time this has happened, last year I was told by the endocrinologist to lose weight. Having lost 30kg for a different reason my levels have not improved.
I'm a 23yr old male, active in the gym strength training 4-5x a week and have a fairly decent diet.
My testosterone levels have been as low as 225ng/dl up to around 350ng/dl (when I thought there was finally improvement halfway through weight loss) but my most recent one is 275ng/dl.
So twice the Dr has said they wouldn't do anything, won't investigate and that's that.
I've told him issues I'm having such as random nose bleeds (which happened last time it went low) which he said isn't related.
My hair has gone thinner (started to go thicker as my levels went up) and again said it was unrelated.
Sleeping more which he said isn't related.
Sex drive is very low but isn't concerned because I can get a hard on.
I don't know if anyone can recommend how to get a 2nd opinion? I think a different dr from the same practice will say the same thing since I'm already on the 2nd one after the first dismissed me because I can grow facial hair (which took months!).
I'm considering what a friend did and self administering test which he said was the best thing he ever did. He's only running trt levels but has noticed huge improvements with mood etc.
Steroids was something I've considered in the future anyway to have a go at WSM but didn't think I'd be considering it so soon.
you are in the normal range, that's why they won't put you on trt.
you could try another doc until you find one that will put you on trt, but this will most likely be the gel. I believe the only other trt available on the nhs now is neibo.
just pinning yourself is an option, but that's a big decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.
what do you think the difference will be going from 300ng/dl to say 800ng/dl?
your friend feels much better because injecting test means you have that level in your blood 24/7 where as natural levels rise and fall during the 24 hour period.
you could try another doc until you find one that will put you on trt, but this will most likely be the gel. I believe the only other trt available on the nhs now is neibo.
just pinning yourself is an option, but that's a big decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.
what do you think the difference will be going from 300ng/dl to say 800ng/dl?
your friend feels much better because injecting test means you have that level in your blood 24/7 where as natural levels rise and fall during the 24 hour period.
Edited by liam1986 on Wednesday 22 July 12:25
liam1986 said:
you are in the normal range, that's why they won't put you on trt.
you could try another doc until you find one that will put you on trt, but this will most likely be the gel. I believe the only other trt available on the nhs now is neibo.
just pinning yourself is an option, but that's a big decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.
what do you think the difference will be going from 300ng/dl to say 800ng/dl?
your friend feels much better because injecting test means you have that level in your blood 24/7 where as natural levels rise and fall during the 24 hour period.
It's not trt I'm looking for, it's the reason why it's low? And if trt is needed then so be it.you could try another doc until you find one that will put you on trt, but this will most likely be the gel. I believe the only other trt available on the nhs now is neibo.
just pinning yourself is an option, but that's a big decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.
what do you think the difference will be going from 300ng/dl to say 800ng/dl?
your friend feels much better because injecting test means you have that level in your blood 24/7 where as natural levels rise and fall during the 24 hour period.
Edited by liam1986 on Wednesday 22 July 12:25
Well I would imagine a huge difference.
Might not feel as crap for one.
That's fair on the 24/7 thing but his levels were lower than mine and drs refused to treat him. Think he was 150ng/dl from what he said but hasn't looked back. I suppose being that happy all the time has to be worth it?
I do agree injecting is a big decision hence why I'm looking for other options first.
if I were you, I'd get full blood work done. everything on the list, then take it from there. yes low T can cause you to feel crap but so can a lot of other things.
As once you start pinning test, you'll never look back. even if you were at the top of normal, you'd still get a massive boost from sticking a couple of ml in your butt cheek once a week.
I speak from experience, natural sucks
As once you start pinning test, you'll never look back. even if you were at the top of normal, you'd still get a massive boost from sticking a couple of ml in your butt cheek once a week.
I speak from experience, natural sucks
liam1986 said:
if I were you, I'd get full blood work done. everything on the list, then take it from there. yes low T can cause you to feel crap but so can a lot of other things.
As once you start pinning test, you'll never look back. even if you were at the top of normal, you'd still get a massive boost from sticking a couple of ml in your butt cheek once a week.
I speak from experience, natural sucks
I've asked him to so we can eliminate anything else unrelated As once you start pinning test, you'll never look back. even if you were at the top of normal, you'd still get a massive boost from sticking a couple of ml in your butt cheek once a week.
I speak from experience, natural sucks
in my sport every other person is on it and recommends it lol.I'm no expert, but I think that if you're a guy who produces a normal level of testosterone and you're doing a lot of heavy lifting to build muscle and strength then you'll be using up that testosterone and other areas of your body which might (or might not, I think the pattern baldness thing and testosterone is an urban myth) need testosterone will suffer, it stands to reason. If your levels are normal then the doctor is not going to do anything, if you're in your early 20s though and it's troubling you now, it'll get worse as you reach you mid 30s and 40s.
There is lots of stuff out there, and a few dietary tips but it seems to boil down to short burst intensive exercises, loose weight (muscle is weight too and a strain on the body) and eat a good diet with extra zinc and vit D.
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2...
Steroids aren't going to do you any good in the long run, you know that and TRT is apparently a treadmill because once you stop the cycle your testosterone levels will crash and you'll basically feel like s
t. Life is short but it's not so short that you want to fk your body up by the time you're 30.
There is lots of stuff out there, and a few dietary tips but it seems to boil down to short burst intensive exercises, loose weight (muscle is weight too and a strain on the body) and eat a good diet with extra zinc and vit D.
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2...
Steroids aren't going to do you any good in the long run, you know that and TRT is apparently a treadmill because once you stop the cycle your testosterone levels will crash and you'll basically feel like s
t. Life is short but it's not so short that you want to fk your body up by the time you're 30.If you were local to me and had come to me as a trainer asking me those questions I would have referred you up the chain to one of the Biosignature Modulation course leaders at the Poliquin Group. One specifically.
Not to say that Biosig in general is the answer and it certainly goes past my knowledge of endocrinology but the knowledge the instructors have is high.
I am in agreement with you that just because levels are considered normal that does not mean they are optimal. I am also of the thought that the first step is to look at what may be causing your levels to be lower than they could be and working on that to try to bring them up. That would mean that when you "get around" to what you need for WSM your body is already at it's optimal levels and you are not taking extra just to bring you up to the same level.
I am in one of your Facebook Strong man groups. I can hook up on there and make the referral if you want as my contact with the instructor is also on Facebook. Totally up to you.
Not to say that Biosig in general is the answer and it certainly goes past my knowledge of endocrinology but the knowledge the instructors have is high.
I am in agreement with you that just because levels are considered normal that does not mean they are optimal. I am also of the thought that the first step is to look at what may be causing your levels to be lower than they could be and working on that to try to bring them up. That would mean that when you "get around" to what you need for WSM your body is already at it's optimal levels and you are not taking extra just to bring you up to the same level.
I am in one of your Facebook Strong man groups. I can hook up on there and make the referral if you want as my contact with the instructor is also on Facebook. Totally up to you.
jonah35 said:
You sound like you're looking for, and determined to find, an excuse for taking steroids.
Steroids and so on mess with you and your hormones
Your testosterone is normal, your choice of 'sport' will play havoc with things.
I'm not looking for an excuse to take, I would have taken and not started this thread otherwise. Steroids and so on mess with you and your hormones
Your testosterone is normal, your choice of 'sport' will play havoc with things.
I want help to find out why it's low at 23, it was low at 22 as well when it should be nearly 4x what it currently is now.
You say normal, normal to what? an 80yr old?
If my sport will play havoc with things, why is it so many natural friends have normal levels and are older than me? Some heavier than my self carrying more bodyfat as well.
FredClogs said:
I'm no expert, but I think that if you're a guy who produces a normal level of testosterone and you're doing a lot of heavy lifting to build muscle and strength then you'll be using up that testosterone and other areas of your body which might (or might not, I think the pattern baldness thing and testosterone is an urban myth) need testosterone will suffer, it stands to reason. If your levels are normal then the doctor is not going to do anything, if you're in your early 20s though and it's troubling you now, it'll get worse as you reach you mid 30s and 40s.
There is lots of stuff out there, and a few dietary tips but it seems to boil down to short burst intensive exercises, loose weight (muscle is weight too and a strain on the body) and eat a good diet with extra zinc and vit D.
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2...
Steroids aren't going to do you any good in the long run, you know that and TRT is apparently a treadmill because once you stop the cycle your testosterone levels will crash and you'll basically feel like st. Life is short but it's not so short that you want to fk your body up by the time you're 30.
Already get a lot of vitamins through diet and supplement with some that are meant to boost t levels such as vitamin D3 but doesn't seem to be helping much.There is lots of stuff out there, and a few dietary tips but it seems to boil down to short burst intensive exercises, loose weight (muscle is weight too and a strain on the body) and eat a good diet with extra zinc and vit D.
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2...
Steroids aren't going to do you any good in the long run, you know that and TRT is apparently a treadmill because once you stop the cycle your testosterone levels will crash and you'll basically feel like s
t. Life is short but it's not so short that you want to fk your body up by the time you're 30.GranderTransit said:
If you were local to me and had come to me as a trainer asking me those questions I would have referred you up the chain to one of the Biosignature Modulation course leaders at the Poliquin Group. One specifically.
Not to say that Biosig in general is the answer and it certainly goes past my knowledge of endocrinology but the knowledge the instructors have is high.
I am in agreement with you that just because levels are considered normal that does not mean they are optimal. I am also of the thought that the first step is to look at what may be causing your levels to be lower than they could be and working on that to try to bring them up. That would mean that when you "get around" to what you need for WSM your body is already at it's optimal levels and you are not taking extra just to bring you up to the same level.
I am in one of your Facebook Strong man groups. I can hook up on there and make the referral if you want as my contact with the instructor is also on Facebook. Totally up to you.
That would be great, any idea on costs though? Not to say that Biosig in general is the answer and it certainly goes past my knowledge of endocrinology but the knowledge the instructors have is high.
I am in agreement with you that just because levels are considered normal that does not mean they are optimal. I am also of the thought that the first step is to look at what may be causing your levels to be lower than they could be and working on that to try to bring them up. That would mean that when you "get around" to what you need for WSM your body is already at it's optimal levels and you are not taking extra just to bring you up to the same level.
I am in one of your Facebook Strong man groups. I can hook up on there and make the referral if you want as my contact with the instructor is also on Facebook. Totally up to you.
I'm not minted at the moment
Op.... My brother has just gone through all what you describe with his gp.... Google leger clinic Doncaster - well known Dr in the UK who actually understands the symptoms of low test etc even if you are within the 'normal' range as my brother was. He has just started nebido..... And although he had to go visit him from London initially he now no longer has to as he is still under his care but medication is administered locally rather than having to travel unless it's for a yearly check ... Hth
mark831 said:
Op.... My brother has just gone through all what you describe with his gp.... Google leger clinic Doncaster - well known Dr in the UK who actually understands the symptoms of low test etc even if you are within the 'normal' range as my brother was. He has just started nebido..... And although he had to go visit him from London initially he now no longer has to as he is still under his care but medication is administered locally rather than having to travel unless it's for a yearly check ... Hth
Thanks! In my case it was a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituitary_adenoma (I had lots of other symptoms though, and a far, far lower testosterone count). Might be worth an MRI just in case.
OP, I think some have missed a comment in your original post.
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
OP, I think some have missed a comment in your original post.
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
TVR1 said:
OP, I think some have missed a comment in your original post.
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
stop assuming I want steroids! I would have taken by now if I wanted them! I went for general health check last year and was interested in my levels, they came back around 260 or something but Dr wasn't concerned.
The full bloods also showed my liver showing something slightly wrong which was a fatty liver, lost bodyfat to counter this and recent tests came back good so no concern anymore
We're talking 162kg down to 135kg (bulked a little last couple of weeks).
smiffy180 said:
TVR1 said:
OP, I think some have missed a comment in your original post.
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
stop assuming I want steroids! I would have taken by now if I wanted them! I went for general health check last year and was interested in my levels, they came back around 260 or something but Dr wasn't concerned.
The full bloods also showed my liver showing something slightly wrong which was a fatty liver, lost bodyfat to counter this and recent tests came back good so no concern anymore
We're talking 162kg down to 135kg (bulked a little last couple of weeks).
smiffy180 said:
TVR1 said:
OP, I think some have missed a comment in your original post.
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
You've lost 30kg? How and what was the 'unrelated' reason. I'd suggest that is exactly the reason you have a low T count.
You're a young chap, so what brought this about? Perhaps your looking for justification to take steroids?
Just saying
stop assuming I want steroids! I would have taken by now if I wanted them! I went for general health check last year and was interested in my levels, they came back around 260 or something but Dr wasn't concerned.
The full bloods also showed my liver showing something slightly wrong which was a fatty liver, lost bodyfat to counter this and recent tests came back good so no concern anymore
We're talking 162kg down to 135kg (bulked a little last couple of weeks).
TVR1 said:
With respect, you know you are morbidly obese then? I'd suggest that your T levels are a direct result of that. Stop worrying about it-your Dr isn't. Keep up the good work with the weight loss though.
I'm not 135kg of pure fat either.....here's me 4 weeks ago for reference https://youtu.be/7UBBNHj3Zf0
I'd agree if I was round though, however IMO my current fat levels cannot be the primarily cause of low T.
smiffy180 said:
I'm not 135kg of pure fat either.....
here's me 4 weeks ago for reference https://youtu.be/7UBBNHj3Zf0
I'd agree if I was round though, however IMO my current fat levels cannot be the primarily cause of low T.
I dunno man.here's me 4 weeks ago for reference https://youtu.be/7UBBNHj3Zf0
I'd agree if I was round though, however IMO my current fat levels cannot be the primarily cause of low T.
I reckon you are at least 6 stone overweight. That's going to make a hell of a difference to your T levels.
You realistically have two choices:
Lose that body fat and see where it's at.
Accept that your bf levels are a problem you aren't going to fix due to your sport and self administer.
Haggleburyfinius said:
I dunno man.
I reckon you are at least 6 stone overweight. That's going to make a hell of a difference to your T levels.
You realistically have two choices:
Lose that body fat and see where it's at.
Accept that your bf levels are a problem you aren't going to fix due to your sport and self administer.
6 stone? I'd be stage ready at 15st I reckon you are at least 6 stone overweight. That's going to make a hell of a difference to your T levels.
You realistically have two choices:
Lose that body fat and see where it's at.
Accept that your bf levels are a problem you aren't going to fix due to your sport and self administer.
I agree I'm a couple stone over weight and I'm going to cut again over winter - just wanted to do a couple comps this year since I had been dieting 7 months.
However, surely if diet is good, I strength train + I'm young cannot mean carrying a little excess counteracts my test levels on a large scale?
I wouldn't complain if they were around 500+ (800 being average) but they've been as low as 225 and not been much over 300.
Fat loss hasn't improved it - surely there would be a change if fat was the problem?
I'm not arguing against you saying you're wrong, it's just I've got no evidence in front of me to say the only cause is because I'm overweight and not got something else wrong
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