Discussion
We have topics for SL 5x5 and Starting Strength, so thought it may be interesting to find out what people have moved onto next.
I may well be wrong, but my understanding is Jim Wendler's original programme was quite popular a decade ago, though it was criticised for being a jack of all trades and master of none with too frequent deloads kept the volume pretty low. It wasn't a bodybuilding routine, nor Olympic/power lifting. Great for increasing overall strength though. I did the original 5/3/1 a few years ago and really enjoyed it, only quit because I got lazy and lost my mojo using a couple of minor injury niggles as an excuse.
When it was revised with Beyond 5/3/1 deloads were pretty much halved in frequency and loads of options included for sport specific training.
The programme in short is four main lifts; Press, Squat, Bench Press & Deadlift plus accessory work organized into 'cycles'. Each cycle is seven weeks long with the last week being deload.
Week 1 of a cycle is effectively 3 sets of 5 reps, the last set as many reps as possible (AMRAP), plus joker sets if you have the energy.
Week 2 is 3 x 3, otherwise as week one
Week 3 is 5 reps at 75% TM, 3 reps 85% and 1+ reps (AMRAP) at 95%
Week 4, 5 & 6 are similar with increased weight; +2.5 kg on upper +5 kg on lower.
Week 7 deload.
There's way more to it, but that's the principle. Vitally, it is important to begin with weights that are lower than you believe you should - it may feel daft for a few weeks, but even for someone with pretty good form and some previous experience it's humbling and demoralizing how it can catch you out if you begin too heavy. Buy the books - it's all there.
I stopped drinking a few weeks ago and need somewhere to channel my increased energy so after a year or so of sporadic, half-hearted training I decided to start training again. I need a prescribed programme to keep me on the straight and narrow and the 'new' Wendler 5/3/1 is my weapon of choice.
I'm keeping a blog of my progress which I may share later. Not sure if my notes would help or entertain anyone else but it's there to help keep me focussed.
So, any other 5/3/1 advocates or otherwise out there?
I may well be wrong, but my understanding is Jim Wendler's original programme was quite popular a decade ago, though it was criticised for being a jack of all trades and master of none with too frequent deloads kept the volume pretty low. It wasn't a bodybuilding routine, nor Olympic/power lifting. Great for increasing overall strength though. I did the original 5/3/1 a few years ago and really enjoyed it, only quit because I got lazy and lost my mojo using a couple of minor injury niggles as an excuse.
When it was revised with Beyond 5/3/1 deloads were pretty much halved in frequency and loads of options included for sport specific training.
The programme in short is four main lifts; Press, Squat, Bench Press & Deadlift plus accessory work organized into 'cycles'. Each cycle is seven weeks long with the last week being deload.
Week 1 of a cycle is effectively 3 sets of 5 reps, the last set as many reps as possible (AMRAP), plus joker sets if you have the energy.
Week 2 is 3 x 3, otherwise as week one
Week 3 is 5 reps at 75% TM, 3 reps 85% and 1+ reps (AMRAP) at 95%
Week 4, 5 & 6 are similar with increased weight; +2.5 kg on upper +5 kg on lower.
Week 7 deload.
There's way more to it, but that's the principle. Vitally, it is important to begin with weights that are lower than you believe you should - it may feel daft for a few weeks, but even for someone with pretty good form and some previous experience it's humbling and demoralizing how it can catch you out if you begin too heavy. Buy the books - it's all there.
I stopped drinking a few weeks ago and need somewhere to channel my increased energy so after a year or so of sporadic, half-hearted training I decided to start training again. I need a prescribed programme to keep me on the straight and narrow and the 'new' Wendler 5/3/1 is my weapon of choice.
I'm keeping a blog of my progress which I may share later. Not sure if my notes would help or entertain anyone else but it's there to help keep me focussed.
So, any other 5/3/1 advocates or otherwise out there?
pimpchez said:
One thing i will also say is , dont get caught up in 5s and 2.5s. Go up in increments of 10kg , if you struggle drop the weight.
531 is so simple at its core , i have been reading the beyond book this morning and its seems developed just to increase the size of his wallet.
If you start with a correct weight, you'll stall quickly with 10kg jumps, which defeats the purpose of the smaller increments.531 is so simple at its core , i have been reading the beyond book this morning and its seems developed just to increase the size of his wallet.
pimpchez said:
One thing i will also say is , dont get caught up in 5s and 2.5s. Go up in increments of 10kg , if you struggle drop the weight.
531 is so simple at its core , i have been reading the beyond book this morning and its seems developed just to increase the size of his wallet.
Couldn't agree less. 531 is so simple at its core , i have been reading the beyond book this morning and its seems developed just to increase the size of his wallet.
2.5 kg is a big increase on the Press in particular, I have a pair of 0.5 kg plates so I can keep increasing, albeit slowly, for far longer than otherwise.
Beyond 5/3/1 has some interesting concepts, especially the acknowledgement that deloads every fourth week is too much (little?) for many. Seven weeks before a deload is preferable for me certainly. The additional info on accessories made it a worthwhile 'upgrade' too.
LordGrover said:
Couldn't agree less.
2.5 kg is a big increase on the Press in particular, I have a pair of 0.5 kg plates so I can keep increasing, albeit slowly, for far longer than otherwise.
Beyond 5/3/1 has some interesting concepts, especially the acknowledgement that deloads every fourth week is too much (little?) for many. Seven weeks before a deload is preferable for me certainly. The additional info on accessories made it a worthwhile 'upgrade' too.
But bear in mind, if you used 10kg increments on the press, you'd add 120kg+ to it in only 1 year! 2.5 kg is a big increase on the Press in particular, I have a pair of 0.5 kg plates so I can keep increasing, albeit slowly, for far longer than otherwise.
Beyond 5/3/1 has some interesting concepts, especially the acknowledgement that deloads every fourth week is too much (little?) for many. Seven weeks before a deload is preferable for me certainly. The additional info on accessories made it a worthwhile 'upgrade' too.
I have found in reality you wont get stronger at the rate , the 531 calc states anyway. I have a few years experience doing this so i think my points are valid , vs someone reading a book.
For ref , i have gone from 100kg on bench for 3-4 to 160 for 2.Along with my squats and deads going up in a similar fashion. To me if i can do 107.5kg (insert exercise) for 5 , then i can do 110kg for 4. Its hard to actually feel the differences in weight . Another old skool method is "feeling the weight" even if you cant yet push it for months. I certainly aint Arnie and dont want to be , but i am stronger all round than the juice(insert supplement) heads at my gym which keeps me happy enough.
For ref , i have gone from 100kg on bench for 3-4 to 160 for 2.Along with my squats and deads going up in a similar fashion. To me if i can do 107.5kg (insert exercise) for 5 , then i can do 110kg for 4. Its hard to actually feel the differences in weight . Another old skool method is "feeling the weight" even if you cant yet push it for months. I certainly aint Arnie and dont want to be , but i am stronger all round than the juice(insert supplement) heads at my gym which keeps me happy enough.
didelydoo said:
LordGrover said:
Couldn't agree less.
2.5 kg is a big increase on the Press in particular, I have a pair of 0.5 kg plates so I can keep increasing, albeit slowly, for far longer than otherwise.
Beyond 5/3/1 has some interesting concepts, especially the acknowledgement that deloads every fourth week is too much (little?) for many. Seven weeks before a deload is preferable for me certainly. The additional info on accessories made it a worthwhile 'upgrade' too.
But bear in mind, if you used 10kg increments on the press, you'd add 120kg+ to it in only 1 year! 2.5 kg is a big increase on the Press in particular, I have a pair of 0.5 kg plates so I can keep increasing, albeit slowly, for far longer than otherwise.
Beyond 5/3/1 has some interesting concepts, especially the acknowledgement that deloads every fourth week is too much (little?) for many. Seven weeks before a deload is preferable for me certainly. The additional info on accessories made it a worthwhile 'upgrade' too.
pimpchez said:
I have found in reality you wont get stronger at the rate , the 531 calc states anyway. I have a few years experience doing this so i think my points are valid , vs someone reading a book.
For ref , i have gone from 100kg on bench for 3-4 to 160 for 2.Along with my squats and deads going up in a similar fashion. To me if i can do 107.5kg (insert exercise) for 5 , then i can do 110kg for 4. Its hard to actually feel the differences in weight . Another old skool method is "feeling the weight" even if you cant yet push it for months. I certainly aint Arnie and dont want to be , but i am stronger all round than the juice(insert supplement) heads at my gym which keeps me happy enough.
A 10kg increment if your max bench is 60kg (eg) is huge- not so much if you bench 200kg though. Why take a program, and then change it?For ref , i have gone from 100kg on bench for 3-4 to 160 for 2.Along with my squats and deads going up in a similar fashion. To me if i can do 107.5kg (insert exercise) for 5 , then i can do 110kg for 4. Its hard to actually feel the differences in weight . Another old skool method is "feeling the weight" even if you cant yet push it for months. I certainly aint Arnie and dont want to be , but i am stronger all round than the juice(insert supplement) heads at my gym which keeps me happy enough.
I'm not a big fan of 5/3/1 anyway- no where near enough intensity & volume for my liking.
didelydoo said:
I'm not a big fan of 5/3/1 anyway- no where near enough intensity & volume for my liking.
To be fair, it's an 'advanced beginner' or intermediate programme for lazy gits like me who don't create their own.Also, Beyond 5/3/1 in particular, you are encouraged to add accessories ad infinitum so you can have as much volume and intensity as you like, so long as you stick to the principle of starting light and small increments on the main compounds.
ETA Link to the basics for those unfamiliar with the original programme and don't want to buy the book unseen: T_NATION.
Edited by LordGrover on Wednesday 7th October 14:16
LordGrover said:
Also, Beyond 5/3/1 in particular, you are encouraged to add accessories ad infinitum so you can have as much volume and intensity as you like, so long as you stick to the principle of starting light and small increments on the main compounds.
That's pretty much what I ended up doing. I still prefer more on the main lifts though- high volume squats, low volume but heavy deads, and both for bench would be my preference. Pressing particularly for me, didn't progress much with 531.After my comp I'm probably on a strength kick for a couple of months... want to pull 300kg this year
For the record, just started cycle 1, week 4 and enjoying it, a lot.
It's so much better (for me) to know exactly what's to be done every workout. Contrary to advice, I'm adding in a few extras if there's gas in the tank as I'm still at light weights for the main lifts.
What I find remarkable is how quickly my body responds to structured training. After a year or so of on again - off again hit & miss sessions with pretty much zero in return - I'm visibly losing fat and gaining muscle already. I shouldn't be surprised, I've been here before but there's always something that gets in the way, or I get comfortable with what I've got.
It's so much better (for me) to know exactly what's to be done every workout. Contrary to advice, I'm adding in a few extras if there's gas in the tank as I'm still at light weights for the main lifts.
What I find remarkable is how quickly my body responds to structured training. After a year or so of on again - off again hit & miss sessions with pretty much zero in return - I'm visibly losing fat and gaining muscle already. I shouldn't be surprised, I've been here before but there's always something that gets in the way, or I get comfortable with what I've got.
LordGrover said:
For the record, just started cycle 1, week 4 and enjoying it, a lot.
It's so much better (for me) to know exactly what's to be done every workout. Contrary to advice, I'm adding in a few extras if there's gas in the tank as I'm still at light weights for the main lifts.
What I find remarkable is how quickly my body responds to structured training. After a year or so of on again - off again hit & miss sessions with pretty much zero in return - I'm visibly losing fat and gaining muscle already. I shouldn't be surprised, I've been here before but there's always something that gets in the way, or I get comfortable with what I've got.
It's so much better (for me) to know exactly what's to be done every workout. Contrary to advice, I'm adding in a few extras if there's gas in the tank as I'm still at light weights for the main lifts.
What I find remarkable is how quickly my body responds to structured training. After a year or so of on again - off again hit & miss sessions with pretty much zero in return - I'm visibly losing fat and gaining muscle already. I shouldn't be surprised, I've been here before but there's always something that gets in the way, or I get comfortable with what I've got.
Good for you - keep it up!
TheBALDpuma said:
I use my own variation of 5/3/1 on some of my athletes - Basically the 5/3/1 on the main lifts, with my own accessory work around them. I use it for athletes who have a good base, but are still in the noobie zone in terms of gainz. I like it for that, but wouldn't do it myself.
That's me, right there. I've been 'training' for c. ten years - get so far and pack it in for a while. If I'd stuck at it I'd be pulling the world by now - as it is I'm working my way back up. again. Noob gainz FTW!
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