Ketosis - Low carb/high fat diet. Experiences?

[LordGrover]

Consuming excess calories will only make you fat if you don't do something to build lean mass/muscle.
Has anyone mentioned stronglifts?

[DuncanM]

Pebbles167 said:

Well weighing myself tonight I'm at 58.5kg (9.3 stone) so literally boardering on what's generally considered healthy weight i guess. I'm quite small framed naturally so i don't look especially slim.

I'm not training for anything but i do exercise. Until recently i was taking around 1750 calories a day, combined with a 4 mile run, 200 sit ups, 200 pressups, 100 bicep curls and 4 minutes of mixed plank. No rest days. In order to get myself to a comfortable weight of around 10 stone I've upped the cals to 2000 (with the semi occasional binge day of 3000+) and halved the exercise adding in a reat day. To be honest though over the last month i don't seemed to have gained anything so I'm going to rethink.

Your fitness must be excellent going on what you are doing.

However, with a bmi of 18.5, low enough to get thrown out of some catwalk shows for being too skinny, I can't see how you can consider yourself anything other than extremely slim?

What do your friends and family think?

[Pebbles167]

DuncanM said:

Your fitness must be excellent going on what you are doing.

However, with a bmi of 18.5, low enough to get thrown out of some catwalk shows for being too skinny, I can't see how you can consider yourself anything other than extremely slim?

What do your friends and family think?

I'm above average fitness for the population I'd expect, but considering most of the population are couch potato's that's not saying much! I'm no athlete for sure. Half marathon is the longest fitness events I do occasionally.

A few are concerned, but I believe that's due to the quick weight loss associated with ketogenic diets. I've been this weight before but as it's been a while since I was I think it's just more noticeable.

I feel pretty good for the most part. I used to feel very bloated regularly and lethargic, but I'm able to have better energy during the day now. I do crash harder though, I've noticed it in the evenings. I fall asleep early during films or any sort of rest activity wherever I am. Something I didn't do before.

On the ketosis note though, I do intend to reintroduce carbs at some point.. but when? and how best to go about it? It would certainly feel weird for example to go and have a bowl of granola (something I adore) and I'd struggle not to feel guilt. Whilst I sometimes give into temptation and overeat or exceed my calorie plan, I'm very disciplined with keeping off high carb foods.

Edited by Pebbles167 on Wednesday 23 March 23:10

[DuncanM]

Pebbles167 said:

DuncanM said:

Your fitness must be excellent going on what you are doing.

However, with a bmi of 18.5, low enough to get thrown out of some catwalk shows for being too skinny, I can't see how you can consider yourself anything other than extremely slim?

What do your friends and family think?

I'm above average fitness for the population I'd expect, but considering most of the population are couch potato's that's not saying much! I'm no athlete for sure. Half marathon is the longest fitness events I do occasionally.

A few are concerned, but I believe that's due to the quick weight loss associated with ketogenic diets. I've been this weight before but as it's been a while since I was I think it's just more noticeable.

I feel pretty good for the most part. I used to feel very bloated regularly and lethargic, but I'm able to have better energy during the day now. I do crash harder though, I've noticed it in the evenings. I fall asleep early during films or any sort of rest activity wherever I am. Something I didn't do before.

On the ketosis note though, I do intend to reintroduce carbs at some point.. but when? and how best to go about it? It would certainly feel weird for example to go and have a bowl of granola (something I adore) and I'd struggle not to feel guilt. Whilst I sometimes give into temptation and overeat or exceed my calorie plan, I'm very disciplined with keeping off high carb foods.

Edited by Pebbles167 on Wednesday 23 March 23:10

Christopher if I'm honest, your posts are quite worrying

You have a BMI right on the limit of what is considered too low, and yet you write this:

"...to go and have a bowl of granola (something I adore) and I'd struggle not to feel guilt."

Ketosis diets have to be the most miserable and dangerous fad in the weight loss/fitness industry for a long time, not feeling able to eat food you adore (your words), whilst sitting on the lowest BMI index to be considered healthy?

[LordGrover]

DuncanM said:

Christopher if I'm honest, your posts are quite worrying

You have a BMI right on the limit of what is considered too low, and yet you write this:

"...to go and have a bowl of granola (something I adore) and I'd struggle not to feel guilt."

Ketosis diets have to be the most miserable and dangerous fad in the weight loss/fitness industry for a long time, not feeling able to eat food you adore (your words), whilst sitting on the lowest BMI index to be considered healthy?

I agree with your conclusion, but ketosis/low carb-high fat diets have nothing to do with it. BDD may be 'tackled' by any number of means by the 'sufferer', but however they choose to achieve their goals is likely to be unhealthy for them.
Ketosis/low carb/high fat can be a perfectly healthy option if implemented properly.

[DuncanM]

LordGrover said:

DuncanM said:

Christopher if I'm honest, your posts are quite worrying

You have a BMI right on the limit of what is considered too low, and yet you write this:

"...to go and have a bowl of granola (something I adore) and I'd struggle not to feel guilt."

Ketosis diets have to be the most miserable and dangerous fad in the weight loss/fitness industry for a long time, not feeling able to eat food you adore (your words), whilst sitting on the lowest BMI index to be considered healthy?

I agree with your conclusion, but ketosis/low carb-high fat diets have nothing to do with it. BDD may be 'tackled' by any number of means by the 'sufferer', but however they choose to achieve their goals is likely to be unhealthy for them.
Ketosis/low carb/high fat can be a perfectly healthy option if implemented properly.

I know what you're saying, and I get that Ketosis seems to work for some people, but the fact is that he cannot eat a lovely bowl of Granola without blowing straight out of the ketogenic diet, meaning the diet is very much restricting what he can eat, and keeping him from that lovely granola.

Not many diets are so restrictive are they? Ketosis is effectively forcing your body to do without the one energy source it wants the most. The heavy crashes, people writing on here about losing power, bonking, not being able to swim powerfully anymore, and for what?

The mad thing for me, is that even the Ketosis fan pages, the ones encouraging people to try it, scare the hell out of me, let alone the many sites you can go to that are against it.

[LordGrover]

It's no worse that the fat-phobic fads of the last few decades. Many people trying to be 'healthy' still avoid fats at all costs and look at the state of their health now. Diabetes and obesity is almost epidemic.

[grumbledoak]

I far prefer this regime. The only 'food' I have to skip is sugary junk or animal feed. And you can keep those.

'Lovely' granola? You must be flogging the stuff.

Edited by grumbledoak on Thursday 24th March 08:34

[FredClogs]

I'm struggling to know what to eat at breakfast, no toast, no porridge, no muesli etc... There's only so many boiled eggs I want to eat and the time I have in the mornings is limited.

[Pebbles167]

Aww, i appreciate the concern guys

Honestly though, despite my emotive writing I've got a handle on it.

I get the impression you imagine me sitting there quietly alone in darkened rooms without food worrying about what i can and can't eat staring at a bowl of granola! Not true. I enjoy a decent mixed diet. Nice hearty breakfasts of meats, eggs and fish with a decent lunch salad with nuts/fruit and a big dinner with a decent selection of cheeses and vegetables. Perhaps even a takeaway if the mood takes me.

It just seems that a low carb diet works very quickly and effectively for me.

I think it's the time to reintroduce carbs slowly and just keep to a sensible but normal diet we'll see how it goes.

[Pebbles167]

FredClogs said:

I'm struggling to know what to eat at breakfast, no toast, no porridge, no muesli etc... There's only so many boiled eggs I want to eat and the time I have in the mornings is limited.

Today's breakfast consisted of:

30g of linwoods mixed flax and chia seeds, 200ml of alpro unsweetened almond or soya milk with a 50g dollop of alpro natural coconut yoghurt and 50g of raspberries. Add stevia/truvia to taste.

Calories: 250ish.
Carbs: 6g
Taste: Awesome. Remarkably like granola!

Breakfast need not be boring or unhealthy

[LordGrover]

Mine was bacon and eggs fried in ghee.
Calories = no idea.
I know which I prefer.

[didelydoo]

IMO cutting out entire food groups should only be used as a last resort. I don't know why anyone would want to cut carbs out if it wasn't a necessity! You can loose weight just fine by limiting cals and exercising. When this begins to fail, which will be a long time if you do it gradually and sensibly, look at more extreme measures, like cutting out carbs.

You can develop an unhealthy obsession with food if you begin to label whole groups as bad or unhealthy.

[FredClogs]

didelydoo said:

IMO cutting out entire food groups should only be used as a last resort. I don't know why anyone would want to cut carbs out if it wasn't a necessity! You can loose weight just fine by limiting cals and exercising. When this begins to fail, which will be a long time if you do it gradually and sensibly, look at more extreme measures, like cutting out carbs.

You can develop an unhealthy obsession with food if you begin to label whole groups as bad or unhealthy.

I don't subscribe to the whole of the paleo ethos but it's absolutely true to say the human body is very capable of surviving and thriving on a very wide and varied diet and refined sugars and processed carbs are relatively newcomers on our diner plates. People who do subscribe to the full paleo lifestyle don't appear to suffer because of it, there's all sorts of genetic variances and age and other lifestyle choices obviously have a huge factor, but cutting out pasta and bread and other refined mass manufactured carbs isn't going to hurt anyone.

[didelydoo]

FredClogs said:

I don't subscribe to the whole of the paleo ethos but it's absolutely true to say the human body is very capable of surviving and thriving on a very wide and varied diet and refined sugars and processed carbs are relatively newcomers on our diner plates. People who do subscribe to the full paleo lifestyle don't appear to suffer because of it, there's all sorts of genetic variances and age and other lifestyle choices obviously have a huge factor, but cutting out pasta and bread and other refined mass manufactured carbs isn't going to hurt anyone.

Everything in moderation- if self control is lacking and moderation is an issue, then perhaps more drastic steps such as removing food groups may be required. But long term, no one sticks to a keto diet out of choice, it's a quick fix, and should be viewed as such.

Italians do ok with a diet high in pasta/bread....

[944fan]

DuncanM said:

Not many diets are so restrictive are they? Ketosis is effectively forcing your body to do without the one energy source it wants the most. The heavy crashes, people writing on here about losing power, bonking, not being able to swim powerfully anymore, and for what?

This was a main worry for me when I was on it. Apart from the fact I was having a terrible time with training but if I felt tempted by a carby food I kept thinking "No i can't it will kick me out of ketosis". Whereas on a normal diet I might have a biscuit and run for an extra 10 mins and think nothing of it.

I have been back on carbs for 3 days now and feel a lot better. My weight has gone up by 1.5lbs but I suspect tat is the glycogen and associated water being retained in my muscles.

[DuncanM]

944fan said:

This was a main worry for me when I was on it. Apart from the fact I was having a terrible time with training but if I felt tempted by a carby food I kept thinking "No i can't it will kick me out of ketosis". Whereas on a normal diet I might have a biscuit and run for an extra 10 mins and think nothing of it.

I have been back on carbs for 3 days now and feel a lot better. My weight has gone up by 1.5lbs but I suspect tat is the glycogen and associated water being retained in my muscles.

Yep, all that sugary goodness, making you feel better

[FredClogs]

didelydoo said:

FredClogs said:

I don't subscribe to the whole of the paleo ethos but it's absolutely true to say the human body is very capable of surviving and thriving on a very wide and varied diet and refined sugars and processed carbs are relatively newcomers on our diner plates. People who do subscribe to the full paleo lifestyle don't appear to suffer because of it, there's all sorts of genetic variances and age and other lifestyle choices obviously have a huge factor, but cutting out pasta and bread and other refined mass manufactured carbs isn't going to hurt anyone.

Everything in moderation- if self control is lacking and moderation is an issue, then perhaps more drastic steps such as removing food groups may be required. But long term, no one sticks to a keto diet out of choice, it's a quick fix, and should be viewed as such.

Italians do ok with a diet high in pasta/bread....

Some people are on the keto diet exactly because they have to be, this isn't new science...

https://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/ketogenic-diet#...

And this gentleman is living paleo exactly out of choice...

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz43owPteBJ

And when I'm over 60 I'd quite like the choice of still being in that sort of shape (in fact I'd quite like to be in that shape now)

I won't go back to munching bread and pasta 10 - 15 times a week (and that wasn't because I was weak willed, it's just the way the common western diet is) since cutting it out I can feel the inflammation in my body reducing, my concentration levels going up and general health and well being being much improved, I'm carrying less fat and my generally just feel much better (although it's true to say at times after exercise I do feel weaker).

[LordGrover]

FredClogs said:

And this gentleman is living paleo exactly out of choice...

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz43owPteBJ

And when I'm over 60 I'd quite like the choice of still being in that sort of shape (in fact I'd quite like to be in that shape now)

Have a listen to Mark Sisson on this week's Robb Wolf podcast.

[FredClogs]

LordGrover said:

FredClogs said:

And this gentleman is living paleo exactly out of choice...

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz43owPteBJ

And when I'm over 60 I'd quite like the choice of still being in that sort of shape (in fact I'd quite like to be in that shape now)

Have a listen to Mark Sisson on this week's Robb Wolf podcast.

He was on Joe Rogan a few weeks ago, he certainly makes you believe what he's saying whilst he's saying it, whether or not any of it's true might require more in depth research than I'm happy to do, but you can't argue that the fella is in shape!