Ketosis - Low carb/high fat diet. Experiences?

[Pebbles167]

I'm with LordGrover here, basing a diet on calories in/out alone is ineffective.

When i was losing weight initially, i took on 3500-4000kcal a day, with nothing more than moderate exercise. The weight fell off. The fact that the calories came from lean meats, vegetables and sources of saturated fats and protein caused my body to be an efficient fat burning tool.

I'm pretty sure i could have eaten a 2000kcal a day diet full of carbs without results that were nearly as pronounced.

For the record, a small rough weight diary: (Edit: Worth noting I'm no longer in Ketosis and I've changed my way of eating)

Male - 26 - 5'10"

October 2015 - 12st 9lbs (regular diet)
November 2015 - 12st 3lbs
December 2015 - 11st 12lbs
January 2016 - 11st 0lbs (ketogenic diet)
February 2016 - 10st 2lbs
March 2016 - 9st 3lbs
April 2016 - 8st 6lbs

Edited by Pebbles167 on Tuesday 26th April 11:45

[didelydoo]

I'm cutting nicely on a non strict diet with 100's of grams of carbs, but lowish fat. I feel great, and don't need to be fussy with food or treats. Ketosis has a large initial drop in weight due to glycogen depletion and water loss. After this, the weight loss is down to cals in vs cals out, same as any other diet.

Fat loss is really simple, I'm amazed at the arguments about it, it takes consistent will power, but a sensible diet*, where cals in are less than cals out is all you need.

• sensible being generally healthy.

[grumbledoak]

You don't need any will power if you get yourself off the sugars.

[Pebbles167]

I found that too once i cut the sugars out. After a while my new sweet foods to look forward to became raspberries, or strawberries and cream.

That being said, sugar free 'treats' using polyols were a massive trigger for me. After a while i completely cut them out as they'd work up a monstrous and insatiable sugar craving in me, and i tell you now, it REALLY took some willpower to avoid sweets and baked goods on those days.

[didelydoo]

grumbledoak said:

You don't need any will power if you get yourself off the sugars.

Perhaps, but as I'd mentioned earlier in the thread- basically no one sticks to a keto diet long term. Many on this thread alone have said how great it was, but they had to stop for one reason or another...often followed by a rebound in weight gain. It's a short term fix, and generally isn't sustainable for the vast majority.

No doubt it work however.

[Pebbles167]

Agree with you also. No one i know apart from myself went more than a month on Keto. A few of them switched to a sort of primal/paleo thing though, and claim their weight is easy to manage and they can have the occasional indulgence too.

[LordGrover]

I can't be precise about which carbs/sugars screw with me, but I know that within a few months of going back to 'normal' I put inches on my waist and just feeling not quite 'on it'. A few weeks of keto and then switch to low carb/high fat and I'm great. Plenty of fresh veg with meat/fish and fats, just no starchy carbs or grains. It's going to be as much alcohol as carbs, but that's really just another refined sugar anyway that messes me up.

[HJMS123]

Okay so all you guys defi the law of thermogenics. A calorie is a unit of energy, your body doesn't know the difference between a mars bar and a chicken breast. It simply breaks them down initially as fats, carbs and protein.

I knew I'd get told I'm 'wrong' as soon as I posted yet I'm the one who has people approach me to prep them for photo shoots.

I'd happily help anyone on here for free if they were having trouble with their physique but you need to get into the 21st century and stop believing the drivel posted in magazines etc.

[HJMS123]

didelydoo said:

I'm cutting nicely on a non strict diet with 100's of grams of carbs, but lowish fat. I feel great, and don't need to be fussy with food or treats. Ketosis has a large initial drop in weight due to glycogen depletion and water loss. After this, the weight loss is down to cals in vs cals out, same as any other diet.

Fat loss is really simple, I'm amazed at the arguments about it, it takes consistent will power, but a sensible diet*, where cals in are less than cals out is all you need.

• sensible being generally healthy.

75-80% from 'healthy' whole sources is enough for most and the rest can be whatever they desire.

However we are wrong .... and a middle aged 'well built' director is right. Obviously.

[LordGrover]

HJMS123 said:

Okay so all you guys defi the law of thermogenics. A calorie is a unit of energy, your body doesn't know the difference between a mars bar and a chicken breast. It simply breaks them down initially as fats, carbs and protein.

I knew I'd get told I'm 'wrong' as soon as I posted yet I'm the one who has people approach me to prep them for photo shoots.

I'd happily help anyone on here for free if they were having trouble with their physique but you need to get into the 21st century and stop believing the drivel posted in magazines etc.

Suggest you read Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes or any one of the other recent books on it. Any number of references to why the lipid hypothesis is wrong and trying to apply the first law of thermo dynamics to a complex biological system like the human body is ridiculous.

[HJMS123]

LordGrover said:

Suggest you read Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes or any one of the other recent books on it. Any number of references to why the lipid hypothesis is wrong and trying to apply the first law of thermo dynamics to a complex biological system like the human body is ridiculous.

I base what I say off science and first hand experiences. Layne Norton's thoughts and findings are an interesting read, you'll find the method is quite scientifically well-supported

I've got myself down to sub 8% bodyfat whilst holding onto what I'd class as a decent amount of muscle (more than your average mens health model) using the flexible dieting/IIFYM approach. I find it hard when people with no scientific proof or even just proof of concept are saying these things do or don't work.

I appreciate you have your own opinion and your own thoughts on the subject but arguing against scientifically proven method is a bit silly.

[LordGrover]

...rather why I suggested reading the book, so you can see that other opinions are well supported by recent research too.
Because opinions don't gel with accepted dogma does not make them invalid.

[shakotan]

HJMS123 said:

LordGrover said:

Suggest you read Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes or any one of the other recent books on it. Any number of references to why the lipid hypothesis is wrong and trying to apply the first law of thermo dynamics to a complex biological system like the human body is ridiculous.

I base what I say off science and first hand experiences. Layne Norton's thoughts and findings are an interesting read, you'll find the method is quite scientifically well-supported

I've got myself down to sub 8% bodyfat whilst holding onto what I'd class as a decent amount of muscle (more than your average mens health model) using the flexible dieting/IIFYM approach. I find it hard when people with no scientific proof or even just proof of concept are saying these things do or don't work.

I appreciate you have your own opinion and your own thoughts on the subject but arguing against scientifically proven method is a bit silly.

The problem there is that there is plenty of scientific proof regarding "a calorie is not just a calorie", you are just oblivious to it, either by choice or by accident.

[grumbledoak]

Indeed. You are not a bomb calorimeter. Well, I'm not.

[HJMS123]

We'll all have to agree to disagree then.

How is your training and diet dging for you all at the minute?

[DuncanM]

Pebbles167 said:

I'm with LordGrover here, basing a diet on calories in/out alone is ineffective.

When i was losing weight initially, i took on 3500-4000kcal a day, with nothing more than moderate exercise. The weight fell off. The fact that the calories came from lean meats, vegetables and sources of saturated fats and protein caused my body to be an efficient fat burning tool.

I'm pretty sure i could have eaten a 2000kcal a day diet full of carbs without results that were nearly as pronounced.

For the record, a small rough weight diary: (Edit: Worth noting I'm no longer in Ketosis and I've changed my way of eating)

Male - 26 - 5'10"

October 2015 - 12st 9lbs (regular diet)
November 2015 - 12st 3lbs
December 2015 - 11st 12lbs
January 2016 - 11st 0lbs (ketogenic diet)
February 2016 - 10st 2lbs
March 2016 - 9st 3lbs
April 2016 - 8st 6lbs

Edited by Pebbles167 on Tuesday 26th April 11:45

Hello Pebbles, have you put on weight since you got down to 8st 6?

I ask because that seems dangerously low, giving you a BMI of 16.9, which is anorexia territory.

General question to the Keto fans, would you continue on this diet/way of life if you had any heart problems?

[Pebbles167]

Yes i have. I'm currently yo-yo'ing between 10st & 11st, but this will certainly rise more and more very quickly if i dont act fast.

I'm working on improving the situation and finding a way of eating that is suitable for me and lessens urges to binge. It's been a rough few weeks.

[DuncanM]

Pebbles167 said:

Yes i have. I'm currently yo-yo'ing between 10st & 11st, but this will certainly rise more and more very quickly if i dont act fast.

I'm working on improving the situation and finding a way of eating that is suitable for me and lessens urges to binge. It's been a rough few weeks.

Ah that's good to hear, I am quite relieved tbh, 8st 6 was not a good weight to stay at, not at 5 foot 10.

Good luck in the future

[13m]

Pebbles167 said:

I'm currently yo-yo'ing between 10st & 11st, but this will certainly rise more and more very quickly if i dont act fast.

I used to yo-yo at about 12 stone but didn't find it weight critical. For Frisbee and diablo the additional weight was definitely beneficial.

[LordGrover]

Pebbles167 said:

...
I'm working on improving the situation and finding a way of eating that is suitable for me and lessens urges to binge. It's been a rough few weeks.

I've only just started reading it so can't yet comment, but it comes highly recommended; Perfect Health Diet by Paul Jaminet.
I came across it via Chris Kresser and the forward's by Mark Sisson, so I guess you can get he general idea from that.