Ketosis - Low carb/high fat diet. Experiences?
Discussion
Embrace the lard!
There's a great film called Fathead which explains the Lipid hypothesis and the problems with it very well.
I'm still a bit overweight but that's booze. Eating a low-no carb high fat diet seems to give me more energy and less gut; and once you get over the initial thought that fat is horrible you start to realise it's actually fat that carries most of the flavour and sates the appetite.
If I do have a pizza or some other carb heavy meal I feel sluggish, and very quickly get hungry again.
There's a great film called Fathead which explains the Lipid hypothesis and the problems with it very well.
I'm still a bit overweight but that's booze. Eating a low-no carb high fat diet seems to give me more energy and less gut; and once you get over the initial thought that fat is horrible you start to realise it's actually fat that carries most of the flavour and sates the appetite.
If I do have a pizza or some other carb heavy meal I feel sluggish, and very quickly get hungry again.
I think it's important to note, pretty much any change or 'diet' works for a bit. It's whether it works long term and/or is sustainable is the question.
Those who enjoy a typical Western diet and lifestyle often grow fat because of the amount of processed food and lack of movement. When they change to a veggie/paleo/low carb/high fat/low fat/juice/celebrity/whatever diet, quit/reduce alcohol and add exercise Presto! they lose weight. It's slipping back into old habits that's the killer.
In my experience eating whole foods and limiting alcohol I can consume what I like and maintain good body composition and be confident I can maintain it with little or no effort.
Weightlifting compliments my low(ish) fat by adding a little shape and muscle so I look and feel better at the beach/pool.
Those who enjoy a typical Western diet and lifestyle often grow fat because of the amount of processed food and lack of movement. When they change to a veggie/paleo/low carb/high fat/low fat/juice/celebrity/whatever diet, quit/reduce alcohol and add exercise Presto! they lose weight. It's slipping back into old habits that's the killer.
In my experience eating whole foods and limiting alcohol I can consume what I like and maintain good body composition and be confident I can maintain it with little or no effort.
Weightlifting compliments my low(ish) fat by adding a little shape and muscle so I look and feel better at the beach/pool.
battered said:
I've not tried a ketosis diet but the multiple anecdotes re feeling ill, losing fitness, smelling bad, etc, suggest to me that you are forcing your body into an abnormal state. I don't think this is healthy, and it certainly isn't sustainable.
It's an abnormal state for us in the West, but I wonder if it would be more common in our pre-agriculture diet?LordGrover said:
I think it's important to note, pretty much any change or 'diet' works for a bit. It's whether it works long term and/or is sustainable is the question.
Those who enjoy a typical Western diet and lifestyle often grow fat because of the amount of processed food and lack of movement. When they change to a veggie/paleo/low carb/high fat/low fat/juice/celebrity/whatever diet, quit/reduce alcohol and add exercise Presto! they lose weight. It's slipping back into old habits that's the killer.
In my experience eating whole foods and limiting alcohol I can consume what I like and maintain good body composition and be confident I can maintain it with little or no effort.
Weightlifting compliments my low(ish) fat by adding a little shape and muscle so I look and feel better at the beach/pool.
How much alcohol do you drink, out of interest?Those who enjoy a typical Western diet and lifestyle often grow fat because of the amount of processed food and lack of movement. When they change to a veggie/paleo/low carb/high fat/low fat/juice/celebrity/whatever diet, quit/reduce alcohol and add exercise Presto! they lose weight. It's slipping back into old habits that's the killer.
In my experience eating whole foods and limiting alcohol I can consume what I like and maintain good body composition and be confident I can maintain it with little or no effort.
Weightlifting compliments my low(ish) fat by adding a little shape and muscle so I look and feel better at the beach/pool.
budgie smuggler said:
It's an abnormal state for us in the West, but I wonder if it would be more common in our pre-agriculture diet?
I read this earlier which I found interestinghttp://discovermagazine.com/1987/may/02-the-worst-...
13m said:
How much alcohol do you drink, out of interest?
Maybe two glasses of wine once a month, usually when eating out. I'll often stick to sparkling mineral water at the pub these days, now the piss-taking has subsided.Christmas was rather more and I'm just back from a week in Lanzarote so the last three weeks or so haven't been typical.
Doing it for the first time here (in prep for an event in April)
I'm trying to drop 10-14lb of fat to increase running performace but keep my strength and size.
My starting point is 14%BF anyway so will most likely end up around 8-10%
Fasting is restricted to 800cal (25% of my burn) on two days of the week but not consecutively. Most of that is the 200g of protein i need.
After 2 sesions I'd dropped 2lb of fat, weigh in is after my 4th on sunday morning so will see how its continued but the eeuphoria and increased energy I feel on fasting days is incredible (big down teh following day mind)
I thought i'd feel terrible on the day of fasting but the complete opposite has happened, I will now channel my running and cycling to the fasting days, sleeping is difficult come the eve though as i am buzzing so much (quite common apparently)
For now i'm loving it, my normal diet sees me having to eat every couple of hours so fasting days are almost like freedom for me! Just keep going, get so much more done my wife and i are doing it together and her experience is very different but she doesnt get the come down the day after fasting so laughs at me then 
As someone said, I think its good to boost / shock the system but not a good practise long term i dont think.
I'm trying to drop 10-14lb of fat to increase running performace but keep my strength and size.
My starting point is 14%BF anyway so will most likely end up around 8-10%
Fasting is restricted to 800cal (25% of my burn) on two days of the week but not consecutively. Most of that is the 200g of protein i need.
After 2 sesions I'd dropped 2lb of fat, weigh in is after my 4th on sunday morning so will see how its continued but the eeuphoria and increased energy I feel on fasting days is incredible (big down teh following day mind)
I thought i'd feel terrible on the day of fasting but the complete opposite has happened, I will now channel my running and cycling to the fasting days, sleeping is difficult come the eve though as i am buzzing so much (quite common apparently)
For now i'm loving it, my normal diet sees me having to eat every couple of hours so fasting days are almost like freedom for me! Just keep going, get so much more done
my wife and i are doing it together and her experience is very different but she doesnt get the come down the day after fasting so laughs at me then As someone said, I think its good to boost / shock the system but not a good practise long term i dont think.
LordGrover said:
13m said:
How much alcohol do you drink, out of interest?
Maybe two glasses of wine once a month, usually when eating out. I'll often stick to sparkling mineral water at the pub these days, now the piss-taking has subsided.Christmas was rather more and I'm just back from a week in Lanzarote so the last three weeks or so haven't been typical.
budgie smuggler said:
It's an abnormal state for us in the West, but I wonder if it would be more common in our pre-agriculture diet?
I think that the difficulty with debating a "pre-agriculture diet" is establishing what was the norm. Hunter gatherers in the African plains vs. fishermen in Indonesia or South Americans living mostly on quinoa vs. someone in a jungle living on bananas, coconuts and the odd spider. Along with everything in between. They all survived. Is it Papua New Guinea where there is to this day an indigenous population that goes off into the jungle, harvests fruit, catches spiders and lives on that? No shortage of sugars there but they do OK.battered said:
I think that the difficulty with debating a "pre-agriculture diet" is establishing what was the norm. Hunter gatherers in the African plains vs. fishermen in Indonesia or South Americans living mostly on quinoa vs. someone in a jungle living on bananas, coconuts and the odd spider. Along with everything in between. They all survived. Is it Papua New Guinea where there is to this day an indigenous population that goes off into the jungle, harvests fruit, catches spiders and lives on that? No shortage of sugars there but they do OK.
I wasn't saying that living out of ketosis is not okay, it was just in reply to your use of the word 'abnormal'. Probably in most places in the world, carb availability will be relatively sparse at certain times of the year due to seasonal weather, herds arriving etc, and hence ketosis would not be abnormal as such. Rather it's the mode you switch to in winter when fruit (or whatever) was not easily available and we need to burn our fat stores to survive.
I don't know for sure though, it was just a ponder.
I'm not an expert !Edited by budgie smuggler on Friday 22 January 11:14
I'm sure that you're right re needing to rely on fat reserves at certain times. After all, that's the whole point of fat reserves. The difficulty though is still to establish what was the norm. Some populations will see a harsh winter with restricted food, some not. Some populations, maybe our fisherman in the tropics, will see a steady supply of food over the year, and this will differ from some poor sod in the frozen north hunting seals and living on blubber.
If there is a common thread it is that in the post agriculture age and certainly in the West we no longer go hungry, even for a few hours at a time. When did you last get fewer than 3 meals a day, much less go all day without food? In preagricultural societies, regardless of where you are, they woukld inevitably have the odd lean day or days and have to burn a bit of fat, even if it were only a case of fishing being bad for a couple of days following a storm or some local flooding messing up the food supply.
If there is a common thread it is that in the post agriculture age and certainly in the West we no longer go hungry, even for a few hours at a time. When did you last get fewer than 3 meals a day, much less go all day without food? In preagricultural societies, regardless of where you are, they woukld inevitably have the odd lean day or days and have to burn a bit of fat, even if it were only a case of fishing being bad for a couple of days following a storm or some local flooding messing up the food supply.
Last year I had a DNA test done. That indicated that I am highly sensitive to carbs and should follow a low carb diet. I tinkered a bit last year but cutting refined carbs.
Anyway last week I have tried going full low carb. First thing I found hard was actually getting carbs below 50g. Without completely giving up all fruit and veg that is quite hard. Some veg has quite a high number of carbs.
I had a headache for about two days and one day of feeling like I had the flu. One website called this the Induction Flu which is quite common they say. Exercise has been impacted only slightly so far. Mostly seems to be reduction in power delivery but no impact on endurance.
There were a load of pee sticks at home (my daughter has recurring UTI) and these measure Ketones in piss. After one week was still showing negligible amount, guess I need a couple of weeks for it to kick in.
I will give it a few weeks and see how it goes. I am doing a half ironman in June and carrying quite a bit of lard so priority is to drop the weight quick as possible.
Anyway last week I have tried going full low carb. First thing I found hard was actually getting carbs below 50g. Without completely giving up all fruit and veg that is quite hard. Some veg has quite a high number of carbs.
I had a headache for about two days and one day of feeling like I had the flu. One website called this the Induction Flu which is quite common they say. Exercise has been impacted only slightly so far. Mostly seems to be reduction in power delivery but no impact on endurance.
There were a load of pee sticks at home (my daughter has recurring UTI) and these measure Ketones in piss. After one week was still showing negligible amount, guess I need a couple of weeks for it to kick in.
I will give it a few weeks and see how it goes. I am doing a half ironman in June and carrying quite a bit of lard so priority is to drop the weight quick as possible.
So almost a full week in. I have lost 10lbs 
A lot will be water but also I have gone up a notch on my belt so the waist has got a little smaller. fell pretty good to be fair. Pee sticks show urine ketone levels at 0.5. Looks like optimum is between 1.5 and 3 so guess it will take a couple of weeks to get there.
Might be unrelated but my long running anxiety has been better this week, on the night I did have carbs my heart was pounding like mad.
A lot will be water but also I have gone up a notch on my belt so the waist has got a little smaller. fell pretty good to be fair. Pee sticks show urine ketone levels at 0.5. Looks like optimum is between 1.5 and 3 so guess it will take a couple of weeks to get there.Might be unrelated but my long running anxiety has been better this week, on the night I did have carbs my heart was pounding like mad.
944fan said:
So almost a full week in. I have lost 10lbs A lot will be water but also I have gone up a notch on my belt so the waist has got a little smaller. fell pretty good to be fair. Pee sticks show urine ketone levels at 0.5. Looks like optimum is between 1.5 and 3 so guess it will take a couple of weeks to get there.
Might be unrelated but my long running anxiety has been better this week, on the night I did have carbs my heart was pounding like mad.
Yeah some will be water, but that's just the start, you're on the right track. Soon you'll start visibly noticing the difference and if you're training you'll feel it too. I've lost nearly 3 stone and feeling much healthier. The downsides are generally pretty easy to deal with, they mainly consist of shopping about well as the food is often expensive, and spending time planning meals as it's very easy to mess up and exit ketosis. Or miss a meal and feel awful. As regards ketostix, don't worry about them too much. At first they'll show dark purple but will get lighter over time, pink is what you're after as it's showing trace amounts. This means your body is burning a good amount of ketones, if ìts purple it's got more spare which in a few weeks will possibly mean you're eating too much. I rarely show purple anymore. A lot will be water but also I have gone up a notch on my belt so the waist has got a little smaller. fell pretty good to be fair. Pee sticks show urine ketone levels at 0.5. Looks like optimum is between 1.5 and 3 so guess it will take a couple of weeks to get there.Might be unrelated but my long running anxiety has been better this week, on the night I did have carbs my heart was pounding like mad.
Either way, glad you're getting on well. As for the anxiety, i can't say. It's possible that you're going through the 'keto flu' where mild feelings of weirdness are supposedly not uncommon.
Anxiety is most likely the hormone Cortisol (fight or flight hormone) some say its more of a high some decribe it as anxious, I started taking Magnesium to counteract it because for me Cortisol is not good as it eats muscle for energy, could be that...
Mines going well, though todays fast has been different as I saved both my meals to as late in teh day as possible (normaly eat 1st around lunchtime) this made a BIG difference in the way I normaly feel....
At around lunchtime when i'd normaly eat I started feeling really agressive, by 4pm I HAD to go in the gym and work it off, I felt like an uncaged animal tbh, the difference in me was huge, reading up, it seems this is most likely an increase in HGH (human growth hormone) studies have shown recently that HGH can increase by 2000% whilst fasting but only after a certian length of time doe sit start to ramp.
Going to try a full day fasting on tuesday and see if i can trigger it some more, just stay by the gym (dont go to see the guy at the restaurant that f
ked up your valentine day meal . Booking back in place now )
Loving the learnining curve, 11% BF now and no muscle mass loss or water gain (water gain is another cortisol increase sign by the way)
Eta: piss strips are woefully inacurate, try one of the diabetic machines from boots, much better.
Mines going well, though todays fast has been different as I saved both my meals to as late in teh day as possible (normaly eat 1st around lunchtime) this made a BIG difference in the way I normaly feel....
At around lunchtime when i'd normaly eat I started feeling really agressive, by 4pm I HAD to go in the gym and work it off, I felt like an uncaged animal tbh, the difference in me was huge, reading up, it seems this is most likely an increase in HGH (human growth hormone) studies have shown recently that HGH can increase by 2000% whilst fasting but only after a certian length of time doe sit start to ramp.
Going to try a full day fasting on tuesday and see if i can trigger it some more, just stay by the gym (dont go to see the guy at the restaurant that f
ked up your valentine day meal . Booking back in place now )Loving the learnining curve, 11% BF now and no muscle mass loss or water gain (water gain is another cortisol increase sign by the way)
Eta: piss strips are woefully inacurate, try one of the diabetic machines from boots, much better.
Edited by Pvapour on Saturday 13th February 18:10
Keep us informed 944fan. You might want to keep a check on your cholesterol levels. If you eat the wrong things, while trying to avoid carbs, your cholestrol levels can rise alarmingly.
I couldn't find out how much you can expect to lose while on Ketosis (after that initial big loss in the first 1-3 weeks). There's many personal logs on bodybuilding.com, and no doubt I could have trawled through those to find the answer, but I couldn't be bothered. I did find on one site, an average of 1lb per day, if you're doing it right, which is amazing. Be interesting to see if manage that.
I couldn't find out how much you can expect to lose while on Ketosis (after that initial big loss in the first 1-3 weeks). There's many personal logs on bodybuilding.com, and no doubt I could have trawled through those to find the answer, but I couldn't be bothered. I did find on one site, an average of 1lb per day, if you're doing it right, which is amazing. Be interesting to see if manage that.
I fell into a bit of a trap today. I work nights and after a long shift I decided to get a hotel to stay in. With a few hours to kill before check in I tried to drive to the local Tesco for some lunch. Easier said than done in busy London Traffic.
By the time i reached the shop, I'd been up for 26 hours and not eaten in 12. Needless to say I was starving. Spotting the deli counter I wandered over and bought a few things for the coming couple of days. A large roast bacon joint and three double bags of large hot and spicy sausages.
No sooner had I got back to my van I'd eaten the lot! I just couldn't stop! I'd estimate it at at least 3000 calories and so compared to my usual 1600 this was far too much.
Aside from the calories I now guess the carb count was pretty high. Around 100 perhaps? I'm usually spoiled by high quality 0 carb sausages, but in this case who knows. When i remembered that sausages can contain carbs I felt so guilty I went for a 45 minute jog and blasted out a couple of hundred press ups, sit ups and a few minutes of planks. Not sure why, I just had to do something.
Either way, I feel DREADFUL. 9 hours on with 5 hours of broken sleep later I feel bloated, sick, lethargic, hot and my head hurts. I'm guessing this is from sheer volume of food, probably exiting Ketosis and mild dehydration?
I've got work tonight, and really cant be arsed. Anyone got any advice to make me feel better?! I just wanted to share a quick story whilst sat in a hotel feeling sorry for my gluttonous self
By the time i reached the shop, I'd been up for 26 hours and not eaten in 12. Needless to say I was starving. Spotting the deli counter I wandered over and bought a few things for the coming couple of days. A large roast bacon joint and three double bags of large hot and spicy sausages.
No sooner had I got back to my van I'd eaten the lot! I just couldn't stop! I'd estimate it at at least 3000 calories and so compared to my usual 1600 this was far too much.
Aside from the calories I now guess the carb count was pretty high. Around 100 perhaps? I'm usually spoiled by high quality 0 carb sausages, but in this case who knows. When i remembered that sausages can contain carbs I felt so guilty I went for a 45 minute jog and blasted out a couple of hundred press ups, sit ups and a few minutes of planks. Not sure why, I just had to do something.
Either way, I feel DREADFUL. 9 hours on with 5 hours of broken sleep later I feel bloated, sick, lethargic, hot and my head hurts. I'm guessing this is from sheer volume of food, probably exiting Ketosis and mild dehydration?
I've got work tonight, and really cant be arsed. Anyone got any advice to make me feel better?! I just wanted to share a quick story whilst sat in a hotel feeling sorry for my gluttonous self
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