Ketosis - Low carb/high fat diet. Experiences?

[13m]

944fan said:

Thanks, that's useful. I am finding the same with exercising. Endurance is ok but I have no power. Running this morning was ok when it was flat but as soon as there was even a slight gradient I just couldn't get my legs to move fast. Swam 2.5 KM yesterday. At slow pace it was fine but when I wanted to go fast my arms just wouldn't turn over.

I seem to fall of a cliff as well, suddenly fatigue just swallows me. It isn't bonking because my muscles have been glycogen depleted by now. Unless I am getting to much protein and that is effecting the ketosis.

I think I will use the diet to get down to race weight and then one or two weeks out switch to a higher carb diet and fuel the half IM as normal.

Are you sure you are in ketosis? Have you tested yourself with wee sticks?

I ask because I found that my strength and stamina were excellent in ketosis.

[944fan]

13m said:

Are you sure you are in ketosis? Have you tested yourself with wee sticks?

I ask because I found that my strength and stamina were excellent in ketosis.

Not totally sure.

I did a couple of tests but the results were a bit all over the place. First one was deep purple which seemed to indicate a very high (dangerous even) level of ketones. 2nd one was a day later and its very light colour and seemed to indicate very low level.

Will do another tonight and see how that comes out.

[13m]

944fan said:

13m said:

Are you sure you are in ketosis? Have you tested yourself with wee sticks?

I ask because I found that my strength and stamina were excellent in ketosis.

Not totally sure.

I did a couple of tests but the results were a bit all over the place. First one was deep purple which seemed to indicate a very high (dangerous even) level of ketones. 2nd one was a day later and its very light colour and seemed to indicate very low level.

Will do another tonight and see how that comes out.

If you're changing the colour of the Ketostix at all you're in ketosis usually. However, the very high reading COULD suggest that you were exiting ketosis because the body can dump ketones when leaving ketosis.

[944fan]

Tested again last night and this morning. Its definitely showing a light purple colour somewhere between 1.5 - 3.0 mmol/l of ketones.

Weight is coming down as well.

Swim was a bit of a struggle this morning but that could just be accumulated fatigue. Due a rest day tomorrow so it might pick up at the weekend.

1lbs lost so far, that includes losing 6 pounds again as I had a hiccup with the process.

[13m]

944fan said:

Tested again last night and this morning. Its definitely showing a light purple colour somewhere between 1.5 - 3.0 mmol/l of ketones.

Weight is coming down as well.

Swim was a bit of a struggle this morning but that could just be accumulated fatigue. Due a rest day tomorrow so it might pick up at the weekend.

1lbs lost so far, that includes losing 6 pounds again as I had a hiccup with the process.

Try having some fat before training. MCT oil perhaps. Helped me.

[944fan]

13m said:

Try having some fat before training. MCT oil perhaps. Helped me.

Thanks will do. All 3 sessions I have struggled with so far have been early morning empty stomach sessions so that could be it.

Perhaps I should go for one of those bulletproof coffees. I don't like swimming on a full sotmach

[944fan]

I am still struggling with exercise. Only I am not actually sure if it is the diet.

Saturday did 2 hours on the bike, felt ok. Bit hard on the hills but not terrible. Sunday went for a run, was aiming for 13km. First 6km were great, then it felt like I hit a wall. Small gradients were a really struggle. Had to start walking, then jogging, then walking again home. Only managed 10km and felt bloody terrible after.

Today my legs ache like hell.

Could be fitness / strength in the legs or could be the diet.

[Pebbles167]

The diet lacks a lot of nutrients, you'll probably start getting night cramps soon.

Be sure to take magnesium and perhaps some multivits.

[FredClogs]

Pebbles167 said:

The diet lacks a lot of nutrients, you'll probably start getting night cramps soon.

Be sure to take magnesium and perhaps some multivits.

Errr, no it doesn't, not really. It's just normal food but with no carbs or sugars. You don't get many nutrients from carbs and sugars anyway, magnesium especially should be coming from salads, veg, meat, nuts, fish etc... all of which you can bang away at on a ketosis diet (except maybe the nuts I dunno I never followed it strictly.)

[944fan]

Been taking ZMA and a mutivit anyway.

I just don't think this is working for me with my exercise goals. I can see that this diet would be a great way to lose weight quickly if I were doing minimal or no exercise. The main reason for shedding the weight was to get to a decent race weight. It is irrelevant how much I weigh if I haven't been able to train.

Going to start doing a carb cycle. Will focus my carbs around exercise and then on light/rest days will go low/no carb

[mcelliott]

944fan said:

Been taking ZMA and a mutivit anyway.

I just don't think this is working for me with my exercise goals. I can see that this diet would be a great way to lose weight quickly if I were doing minimal or no exercise. The main reason for shedding the weight was to get to a decent race weight. It is irrelevant how much I weigh if I haven't been able to train.

Going to start doing a carb cycle. Will focus my carbs around exercise and then on light/rest days will go low/no carb

I think this is a very sensible approach. A low or zero carb diet really doesn't tie in with someone partaking in endurance or explosive type sports. I can't think of any top level athlete in the professional ranks that follows a low carb diet. Also I would be intrigued to hear from the people who say their stamina has improved whilst on this diet. I'm assuming they've come from a very low level to begin with. Also the definition of endurance?

[FredClogs]

944fan said:

Been taking ZMA and a mutivit anyway.

I just don't think this is working for me with my exercise goals. I can see that this diet would be a great way to lose weight quickly if I were doing minimal or no exercise. The main reason for shedding the weight was to get to a decent race weight. It is irrelevant how much I weigh if I haven't been able to train.

Going to start doing a carb cycle. Will focus my carbs around exercise and then on light/rest days will go low/no carb

From what I understand (which isn't much) the ketosis for endurance events(maybe not strength training) is now pretty well accepted, the gains over glycogen are scientifically proven - maybe you just need to keep going, get the body more adept at burning that fat and change the diet to more fat, mct oil, avacados etc...? Some tips below

http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2015/02/ketoge...

(Don't take my advice I don't really know what I'm talking about, I can google but not much else)

[Pebbles167]

FredClogs said:

Errr, no it doesn't, not really. It's just normal food but with no carbs or sugars. You don't get many nutrients from carbs and sugars anyway, magnesium especially should be coming from salads, veg, meat, nuts, fish etc... all of which you can bang away at on a ketosis diet (except maybe the nuts I dunno I never followed it strictly.)

If you're closely keeping track of everything, then sure, you can get all of that. But if you're moving quickly through your day with the only dietry concern on your mind being to avoid carbs, then yes it does.

Jeez..

[grumbledoak]

mcelliott said:

A low or zero carb diet really doesn't tie in with someone partaking in endurance or explosive type sports.

My own experience has been consistent with what I have read: I am fine for running or cycling endurance, hours at a time; I struggle a little for power when swimming front crawl. I don't get any other mentioned side effects. I do take a Berocca daily, I doubt I need it - the only food group I skip is glucose.

[944fan]

FredClogs said:

From what I understand (which isn't much) the ketosis for endurance events(maybe not strength training) is now pretty well accepted, the gains over glycogen are scientifically proven - maybe you just need to keep going, get the body more adept at burning that fat and change the diet to more fat, mct oil, avacados etc...? Some tips below

http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2015/02/ketoge...

(Don't take my advice I don't really know what I'm talking about, I can google but not much else)

Ben Greenfield is a bit dogmatic with his advice, although he does admit that the diet isn't for everyone. I am past the initial phase and pee sticks show that I have been in ketosis for over a week. I feel st, more so when I exercise. Diet is very high in fat with a good mix of avocados, cheese, coconut oil, olive oil, fatty meat

Maybe if I persevered it might improve but I know if I carb cycle and monitor my cal intake I will still lose weight and wont suffer the side effects. My first race is in 6 weeks and if I carry on like this for another 2-3 weeks and can't complete my training then I am buggered.

I might use this diet again when my events are over with and I have some stubborn weight to shift during the winter. Maybe at that stage I will have more time to fully adapt and can use it longer term.

[FredClogs]

944fan said:

Ben Greenfield is a bit dogmatic with his advice, although he does admit that the diet isn't for everyone. I am past the initial phase and pee sticks show that I have been in ketosis for over a week. I feel st, more so when I exercise. Diet is very high in fat with a good mix of avocados, cheese, coconut oil, olive oil, fatty meat

Maybe if I persevered it might improve but I know if I carb cycle and monitor my cal intake I will still lose weight and wont suffer the side effects. My first race is in 6 weeks and if I carry on like this for another 2-3 weeks and can't complete my training then I am buggered.

I might use this diet again when my events are over with and I have some stubborn weight to shift during the winter. Maybe at that stage I will have more time to fully adapt and can use it longer term.

I'd be interested to know how that first hit of carbs feels in your stomach and what it does to your blood sugar, for a variety of reasons I succumbed at lunch today for a kfc (zinger tower meal) and whilst eating it was a complete mouth orgasm (the Pepsi even tasted good) by 2:30 I was groaning with stomach ache and falling asleep :-)

[Pebbles167]

FredClogs said:

I'd be interested to know how that first hit of carbs feels in your stomach and what it does to your blood sugar, for a variety of reasons I succumbed at lunch today for a kfc (zinger tower meal) and whilst eating it was a complete mouth orgasm (the Pepsi even tasted good) by 2:30 I was groaning with stomach ache and falling asleep :-)

That sounds EXACTLY like what's happened to me on carb ups. You'll perhaps also get massively hungry later on and want to eat everything in the house. At least i did!

Best thing to do is to try not to overeat and just get back on target quickly and you'll be fine. Even if you do succumb to hunger cravings and eat loads (high or low carb) just take it as a learning experience, note what happens and get back on the wagon. Remembering the process will help next time it happens. Stick with it!

I've been keto dieting since the start of this topic. I've lost two stone now, and three stone overall since weight loss began in October/November. I still slip up occasionally but I've yet to intentionally indulge in high carb food (although occasional overindulgence in sugar free sweets has happened! )

[944fan]

So I got up early this morning and had 40g porridge oats, 120ml semi-skimmed milk and a dessert spoon of golden syrup.

My plan called for some hill repeats today. My HRV app on my phone told me that I hadn't recovered completely so it was going to be a tough session.

Jogged for 10 mins to warm up and then 25 minutes of running fast up a steep hill (150m) then jogging back down. At nearly 18 stone it was a lot of effort and my HR was peaking at 179 at the top of the hill.

Importantly though it was cardio-respiratory system that was holding me back. Not power/strength in my legs or my energy systems.

I had a bagel with tomato , rocket, slice chicken and beef, boiled egg for recovery.

Feel pretty good now. I will let you know how I feel later on.

[DuncanM]

Pebbles167 said:

That sounds EXACTLY like what's happened to me on carb ups. You'll perhaps also get massively hungry later on and want to eat everything in the house. At least i did!

Best thing to do is to try not to overeat and just get back on target quickly and you'll be fine. Even if you do succumb to hunger cravings and eat loads (high or low carb) just take it as a learning experience, note what happens and get back on the wagon. Remembering the process will help next time it happens. Stick with it!

I've been keto dieting since the start of this topic. I've lost two stone now, and three stone overall since weight loss began in October/November. I still slip up occasionally but I've yet to intentionally indulge in high carb food (although occasional overindulgence in sugar free sweets has happened! )

Hi Christopher,

Your weight seems very low if you're now around 9 stone @5 foot 10?

Are you getting fit for a certain sport, like endurance cycling or something?

[Pebbles167]

Well weighing myself tonight I'm at 58.5kg (9.3 stone) so literally boardering on what's generally considered healthy weight i guess. I'm quite small framed naturally so i don't look especially slim.

I'm not training for anything but i do exercise. Until recently i was taking around 1750 calories a day, combined with a 4 mile run, 200 sit ups, 200 pressups, 100 bicep curls and 4 minutes of mixed plank. No rest days. In order to get myself to a comfortable weight of around 10 stone I've upped the cals to 2000 (with the semi occasional binge day of 3000+) and halved the exercise adding in a reat day. To be honest though over the last month i don't seemed to have gained anything so I'm going to rethink.