Norco or Specialized??

[PomBstard]

Have done the research for the next bike - one of these adventure bikes seems to hit all the right notes for me, and have a shortlist of 2. Norco Search A105 or Specialized Diverge Elite DSW

Have looked at both bikes, but riding them seems to be a problem - neither supplier will build the bike in my size without some sort of money changing hands, which is annoying. Have tried similar models in each of their ranges to check sizing. Anyway, the point is that I've no experience of either manufacturer, so am curious if any here have any particular views.

The Norco is better kitted out for the price, and looks like it carries over some mtb tech, such as thru axles, which is nice. Specialized is the better-known company and the Diverge seems to have many fans, though reviews of the Search are also favourable.

What say ye??

[duff]

I'd go with the Norco. Better Spec and better looking ( but I'm not a fan of Soecialized road bikes).

Evans will build you a bike to try for a refundable £50 iirc which seems fair enough.

[benny.c]

I'm still really enjoying riding my Diverge and it's been trouble free so far. There are a few PH'ers with them now, thread here in case you haven't seen it:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=146...

[SixPotBelly]

duff said:

I'd go with the Norco. Better Spec and better looking ( but I'm not a fan of Soecialized road bikes).

Evans will build you a bike to try for a refundable £50 iirc which seems fair enough.

I'm guessing by his username that PomBstard isn't round the corner from an Evans...

[matt-ITR]

Norco search is an absolutely brilliant bike, perhaps the best I rode through all of 2015.
The one we had on test was an Ultegra spec and carbon frame, so not a direct comparison - but the geometry was really good.

[PomBstard]

Thanks for that lot - doesn't seem to be any negatives to either bike, so I'll go for the one that looks best to me! Off round the bike shops this weekend to see who wants some business

Probably not getting it from Evans, as correctly guessed

[Antony Moxey]

As a bit of a Spesh fan boy I'd take the Norco all day long - I couldn't be doing with that stupid bent top tube on the Spesh. But I'm going on looks alone, I have no experience of riding either bike.

[Google [bot]]

As an aside, I recently had my Specialized Sirrus Comp stolen and replaced it with a 2016 Sirrus Elite Disc. I'm also in Australia, and just received my delivery of particular bar ends from Evans, that I scoured the world for, via my Dad.

[PomBstard]

Google [bot] said:

As an aside, I recently had my Specialized Sirrus Comp stolen and replaced it with a 2016 Sirrus Elite Disc. I'm also in Australia, and just received my delivery of particular bar ends from Evans, that I scoured the world for, via my Dad.

If Evans had the bike I wanted, I'd get it from them - I'm sure my mum's suitcase will be big enough... I've used CRC enough too.

And if you're now back on 2 wheels, when I get my chosen steed, perhaps a loop of Akuna someday??

[Barchettaman]

Giant Defy 1 Disc?

But do you really need disc brakes on a road bike in 'Straya? Seattle I can understand....!

[PomBstard]

Barchettaman said:

Giant Defy 1 Disc?

But do you really need disc brakes on a road bike in 'Straya? Seattle I can understand....!

Looking at bikes that can handle some fairly broken firetrails as well as road, hence why the adventure-type bikes seem to appeal.

As for discs, not sure why I wouldn't want them, to be honest, but I'm sure that's already been debated elsewhere.

[Barchettaman]

Why wouldn't you want disc brakes, particularly in a dry( ish) climate:

Put more stress on spokes
You need a dished wheel, even in front
More beefy forks required, since stress is put on one side
Some risk of pulling front wheel out of the dropout due to torsional stress
Weaker rear wheel, since more dished both sides
Complicates rack attachment
Complicates rear kickstand mounting
Less standard worldwide
Pads become useless if you get oil on them
Disc rotor is smaller than rims, so heats up more quickly
On long descents, red hot rotor can heat up hub (bad for bearings)
Disc rotor can still become damaged in transit, harder to replace
Disc brakes often need re-adjustment

[matt-ITR]

Haha, what a load of bullst.

[neenaw]

Barchettaman said:

Why wouldn't you want disc brakes, particularly in a dry( ish) climate:

Put more stress on spokes
You need a dished wheel, even in front
More beefy forks required, since stress is put on one side
Some risk of pulling front wheel out of the dropout due to torsional stress
Weaker rear wheel, since more dished both sides
Complicates rack attachment
Complicates rear kickstand mounting
Less standard worldwide
Pads become useless if you get oil on them
Disc rotor is smaller than rims, so heats up more quickly
On long descents, red hot rotor can heat up hub (bad for bearings)
Disc rotor can still become damaged in transit, harder to replace
Disc brakes often need re-adjustment

I can honestly say that out of everything on that list I've only ever suffered with one of those issues, I got oil on the pads when I bled the brakes on my Diverge so had to bin them.
Other than that it's absolute tosh.

We did a week-long trip from Geneva to Lake Garda in the summer and and the issues with rotors overheating or affecting bearings never occurred to anyone running disc wheels, neither did they get damaged during transit or need adjustment. As for wheels pulling out of dropouts, I've never had that on two disc braked road/CX bikes or numerous MTB's.

The only person who had brake issues was the guy who almost totalled a set of rims after a couple of long wet descents with lots of braking which destroyed a few sets of rim brake pads as well.

[PomBstard]

Barchettaman said:

Why wouldn't you want disc brakes, particularly in a dry( ish) climate:

Put more stress on spokes
You need a dished wheel, even in front
More beefy forks required, since stress is put on one side
Some risk of pulling front wheel out of the dropout due to torsional stress
Weaker rear wheel, since more dished both sides
Complicates rack attachment
Complicates rear kickstand mounting
Less standard worldwide
Pads become useless if you get oil on them
Disc rotor is smaller than rims, so heats up more quickly
On long descents, red hot rotor can heat up hub (bad for bearings)
Disc rotor can still become damaged in transit, harder to replace
Disc brakes often need re-adjustment

Hmm, so much carp, its hard to know where to start. Lets quickly dispel the myth that Sydney is dry - average rainfall is around 1300mm/pa, around twice that of London, and about 25% more than Seattle. Its a wet place and when it rains, it really rains. Hard.

As for the rest, in ten years of running disk brakes on mtbs I've only suffered the oil on pad problem, but even that was a simple thing to sort - must've taken at least 60seconds to change the pads. The brakes have always been fit and forget, and just to break the internet, my reliable disk brakes are Avids!!

You might argue that disc brakes aren't completely necessary on a road-only bike, and in certain situations, you might be right, but you can't argue that discs are less competent than rim brakes.

As for disk brakes on the road, the Norco or Spesh will be an effective replacement for a Giant XTC that I've been running with 1.5" slicks and fully rigid carbon forks for the last five years. Its been an awesome machine, only let down as a road/tourer/adventure bike by the low mtb gearing and upright riding position. Downhill I was easily keeping up with or passing roadies, esp if it was wet and twisty, and that was largely down to the brakes.

So, I still can't think of a reason why I wouldn't want disk brakes on a road bike.

[Barchettaman]

Guys, I'm just adding to the debate - that list wasn't my own, I lifted it from the Interwebs.

I think we should however all be aware that, in a ROAD application, disc brakes have their disadvantages.

Funnily enough, these Adventure/Gravel bikes that are being touted as perfect for discs would be one place where I wouldn't want discs. With the risk of high speed crashes in the middle of nowhere, need for simple, serviceable and robust drivetrain and equipment, plus tyre clearance, I would go for a drop-bar set up with bar end shifters, Tektro V-brake levers (long pull), MTB V-brakes for clearance and posh cables and housing to optimise lever/shifting performance. Combine that with Kool-Stop salmon pads and you'll have an effective set-up.

This runs completely at odds with the bike industry which of curse is one great big fking fashion parade that wants us to buy the newest and shiniest st each and every year.

[Barchettaman]

I should also add:

- front fork failures at the caliper mounts documented on this forum on a road disc bike, very scary
- Avid BB7 calipers overheating on alpine descents and melting the red inboard adjuster knob, destroying the brake
- the complete recall of all road hydraulic brakes by SRAM after a series of cold-weather seal failures

I'm just trying to temper the mad stampede to disc brakes in a road application.
There are other ways to get excellent year-round braking performance from your equipment.

[matt-ITR]

The arguments coming from people who have no experience of disc brakes is quite tiresome.

[benny.c]

I've had a few cross bikes with very good mini-Vs (TRP CX9 and 8.4) and I resisted discs for a long time as I never really found the mini-Vs wanting. But....the TRP Spyres on my Diverge have been a revelation and I wouldn't go back to rim brakes for a adventure/gravel type bike. At this time of year riding through all the mud and crap they are particularly excellent.

As an aside, there is no way I would want bar end shifters on an off road bike. When there's not much traction I want my hands on the hoods, not fumbling around on the end of the drops. Also, as I found out with my other cross bikes, full mudguards are a PITA with mini-Vs.

Edited by benny.c on Thursday 14th January 22:35

[Barchettaman]

matt-ITR said:

The arguments coming from people who have no experience of disc brakes is quite tiresome.

Matt, I've put many hundreds of KMs on a disc brake equipped commuter bike. I liked it.