Slipped Disc

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bad company

Original Poster:

18,483 posts

265 months

Monday 11th July 2016
quotequote all
I have had back trouble on and off for some years but now it is much worse. A few weeks ago I could hardly walk and spent most of my time horizontal on the sofa.

I had an MRI which confirmed the problem is at L5 S1 which is not uncommon. I had a facet joint injection on 21 June which helped but I'm still in pain. I can walk but slowly and not very far. I still can't sit for long and driving is agony.

Anybody had anything similar?

davhill

5,263 posts

183 months

Monday 11th July 2016
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bad company said:
I have had back trouble on and off for some years but now it is much worse. A few weeks ago I could hardly walk and spent most of my time horizontal on the sofa.

I had an MRI which confirmed the problem is at L5 S1 which is not uncommon. I had a facet joint injection on 21 June which helped but I'm still in pain. I can walk but slowly and not very far. I still can't sit for long and driving is agony.

Anybody had anything similar?
Yep, I got the very same thing. My slipped L5S1 disc gave me bad sciatica, then...

  • I had three dorsal root ganglion injections after getting heavy duty painkillers. The first two dropped the pain level by 70% for 3 months. Injection 3 was at three levels simultaneuosly and did nothing.
  • I had a microdiscectomy. after recovery, the pain level was down by about 60% but this didn't last.
  • I had another microdiscectomy with a laminotomy but my ability to grow scar tissue made the pain came back as bad as ever. I was then diagnosed with FBSS (failed back surgery syndrome).
  • I had a neurostimulator (Google Medtronic) implanted. This is an interanl TENS machine that is wired into en electrode in the spinal canal at mid-thoracic level. It fools the brain by modifying the pain signal into an electrical buzz. It knows my position (standing, lying down left or right). The charge lasts about a week and it's recharged from outside using a belt and rechargeable battery pack.
  • As the electride was in the wrong place first time, another was put in. This was/is better but the pain remains to a considerableextent. As a reult, I need to use a stick to walk and have markedly limited mobility.
If you're younger than I was (early 60s when it went) and if your core strength and current status are better than mine were, you'll do better. I'd had lumbar pain anyway for years.

Tip: I was advised to opt for neurosurgery and steer clear of orthopaedics.

HTH.

Good luck!

dreamer75

1,401 posts

227 months

Tuesday 12th July 2016
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Me too but with a different outcome to davhill (whose posts I've read before and really empathise davhill frown )

Mine was L4/5 (one level above yours). After a few years of physio and other treatments I had a microdiscectomy which gave relief for a few weeks. Unlike davhill I was seeing spinal orthapaedics, not neuro. So they went back in to fit an ADR (Artificial Disc) but ended up with a Fusion (the bones had rubbed on each other as the disc had collapsed so much and made holes in them, so the ADR couldn't be fitted).

That was 3 years ago in Jan (I think) and although not pain free by any stretch of the imagination, I'm now mountain biking, skiing, road cycling and generally getting on with life. I was 37 when I had the surgery. I find standing and ambling around v difficult and a course of pain management CBT (therapy) really helped me come to terms with the pain situation. Between the surgery and the CBT my life is transformed.

Surgery isn't a decision to take lightly and lots of risks, but thought I'd put up a different view to davhill. Both are possible outcomes though!

bad company

Original Poster:

18,483 posts

265 months

Tuesday 12th July 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies. I have made another appointment with the spine consultant tomorrow.

Sheets Tabuer

18,894 posts

214 months

Tuesday 12th July 2016
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I had the same, no fking way was someone going to cut my back open so I opted for excellent pain killers and they were excellent, 14-18 months later and I was fine with the odd left leg weakness.

I miss my pain killers frown

davhill

5,263 posts

183 months

Tuesday 12th July 2016
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dreamer75 said:
Me too but with a different outcome to davhill (whose posts I've read before and really empathise davhill frown )

Mine was L4/5 (one level above yours). After a few years of physio and other treatments I had a microdiscectomy which gave relief for a few weeks. Unlike davhill I was seeing spinal orthapaedics, not neuro. So they went back in to fit an ADR (Artificial Disc) but ended up with a Fusion (the bones had rubbed on each other as the disc had collapsed so much and made holes in them, so the ADR couldn't be fitted).

That was 3 years ago in Jan (I think) and although not pain free by any stretch of the imagination, I'm now mountain biking, skiing, road cycling and generally getting on with life. I was 37 when I had the surgery. I find standing and ambling around v difficult and a course of pain management CBT (therapy) really helped me come to terms with the pain situation. Between the surgery and the CBT my life is transformed.

Surgery isn't a decision to take lightly and lots of risks, but thought I'd put up a different view to davhill. Both are possible outcomes though!
I think a lot of it is down to two things..the state of your spine/core when it lets go and good old luck.

Not everyone develops scar tissue post-op but I've a talent for it. My second op included dissection of the offending tissue and the laminotomy took bone away to give the sciatic nerve more room but more scar tissue developed and impinged on it. It's probably still applying pressure but that can't be checked. An implanted neurostimulator means no more MRIS.

I'm glad to hear the OP isn't biding his time. The material that's exuded from a slipped disc is toxic to the nerves it leans on. So you get mechanical and chemical damage.

bad company

Original Poster:

18,483 posts

265 months

Wednesday 13th July 2016
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So I saw the consultant again today. He suggested 3 options:-

1:- Give it time, apparently there is a very good chance that all will be well in a couple of years.

2:- Surgery, a quick fix but not without risk and after 2 years the result is probably similar to if I had just waited.

3:- Another facet joint injection. The last one improved my situation but still not right.


I want for another injection which will hopefully be done on Tuesday.

dreamer75

1,401 posts

227 months

Thursday 14th July 2016
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davhill said:
I think a lot of it is down to two things..the state of your spine/core when it lets go and good old luck.

Not everyone develops scar tissue post-op but I've a talent for it. My second op included dissection of the offending tissue and the laminotomy took bone away to give the sciatic nerve more room but more scar tissue developed and impinged on it. It's probably still applying pressure but that can't be checked. An implanted neurostimulator means no more MRIS.

I'm glad to hear the OP isn't biding his time. The material that's exuded from a slipped disc is toxic to the nerves it leans on. So you get mechanical and chemical damage.
I always read your threads to keep up with your progress! Sort of "fellow back sufferers" thing I think !

Yes I wish I had got mine sorted earlier, I hadn't realised about the toxic thing at the time. I waited several years of persevering with things like acupuncture, osteo, then seeing a specialist, then physio etc. All the time more and more damage was being done. I know it's a balance between waiting because they sometimes sort themselves out, and getting on with it to minimise damage, but it's why I get so frustrated when I see posts suggesting random therapies for back issues without knowing what the actual issue is. Both of my feet are damaged (nerve damage - one side from the leaky disc and one from the fusion surgery) and my left leg is weaker than my right etc .etc. but in the grand scheme of things it's much better. I just kick myself regularly for not sorting it out quicker and getting my life back earlier. Pretty much my whole 30's were spent in pain and restricting my activity due to it. Bring on the 40's now it's relatively sorted !!!

Good luck OP smile

davhill

5,263 posts

183 months

Thursday 14th July 2016
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dreamer75 said:
I always read your threads to keep up with your progress! Sort of "fellow back sufferers" thing I think !

Yes I wish I had got mine sorted earlier, I hadn't realised about the toxic thing at the time. I waited several years of persevering with things like acupuncture, osteo, then seeing a specialist, then physio etc. All the time more and more damage was being done. I know it's a balance between waiting because they sometimes sort themselves out, and getting on with it to minimise damage, but it's why I get so frustrated when I see posts suggesting random therapies for back issues without knowing what the actual issue is. Both of my feet are damaged (nerve damage - one side from the leaky disc and one from the fusion surgery) and my left leg is weaker than my right etc .etc. but in the grand scheme of things it's much better. I just kick myself regularly for not sorting it out quicker and getting my life back earlier. Pretty much my whole 30's were spent in pain and restricting my activity due to it. Bring on the 40's now it's relatively sorted !!!

Good luck OP smile
Hi dreamer75,

I recall our having chatted here before - I'm glad to hear things are much better, albeit with caveats.

I've had the electric box of tricks on board for seven years now - time flies when you're having fun! It's serving to modify the pain inasmuch as I no longer need the horrible, heavy duty painkillers. There is still pain but I manage, largely though having little choice in the matter.

My Achilles reflex went soon after the disc let go and my right leg is weaker. It seems I can expect and 'end of life' message soon - from the neurostimulator, not, I hope, for me yet! It's a day case job to hoik the stim out and replace its rehargeable battery pack.

I too crossed swords with the physioterrorists and they sent me for a hip X-Ray. It turned out that this was down to referred pain from the sicatic nerve. The hip joint wasn't brilliant but it was OK. Happily, I haven't suffered cauda equina syndrome or the foot drop that can afflict disc slippers.

I found out about the toxicity of the nucleus pulposa material while researching what to do next. I toyed with the notion of a false disc or a cage fusion but that was never really an option.

HTH, David



JerseyS2000

378 posts

217 months

Thursday 14th July 2016
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Hi all

just my 2p

I had a discectomy on L4/L5 20 years ago after an American football tackle went wrong at university. They also did a partial laminectomy on L5/S1 at the same time. instant result was end of very bad sciatica that I had been suffering for nine months. hurt like hell in hospital though.

Two months ago, aged 42, I slipped the L5/S1 disc. lots of left side lower leg sciatica, getting worse. started getting CES symptoms, so had emergency laminectomy 4 weeks ago in Taunton. brilliant consultant called Paul Thorpe.

Result this time? immediate end of sciatica. some pain from the surgery healing, fairly obviously. very happy with it.

would I change anything I did? yes, I would have demanded surgery sooner the first time.

cheers

Ben

dreamer75

1,401 posts

227 months

Friday 15th July 2016
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davhill said:
Hi dreamer75,

I recall our having chatted here before - I'm glad to hear things are much better, albeit with caveats.

I've had the electric box of tricks on board for seven years now - time flies when you're having fun! It's serving to modify the pain inasmuch as I no longer need the horrible, heavy duty painkillers. There is still pain but I manage, largely though having little choice in the matter.

My Achilles reflex went soon after the disc let go and my right leg is weaker. It seems I can expect and 'end of life' message soon - from the neurostimulator, not, I hope, for me yet! It's a day case job to hoik the stim out and replace its rehargeable battery pack.

I too crossed swords with the physioterrorists and they sent me for a hip X-Ray. It turned out that this was down to referred pain from the sicatic nerve. The hip joint wasn't brilliant but it was OK. Happily, I haven't suffered cauda equina syndrome or the foot drop that can afflict disc slippers.

I found out about the toxicity of the nucleus pulposa material while researching what to do next. I toyed with the notion of a false disc or a cage fusion but that was never really an option.

HTH, David
Wow 7 years already! I am sure I remember you going through the first install and subsequent revision !! I'm glad you're off the bad drugs - they're nasty things. I struggled with the pain for a while, and was v sceptical when the pain clinic referred me to a CBT lady, but she was incredible. A lot of talk about acceptance (which I equate with giving in) but finally she got through to me and transformed life. It's still a daily management thing as you'll know, and I so wish I'd gone for the surgery earlier (it was a cage fusion), but it's such a big decision at the end.

bad company

Original Poster:

18,483 posts

265 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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So greetings from Ipswich hospital where I am in bed waiting for strength to return to me leg after another facet joint injection. Hopefully this will work.

Clio200pat

143 posts

187 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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bad company said:
So greetings from Ipswich hospital where I am in bed waiting for strength to return to me leg after another facet joint injection. Hopefully this will work.
I hope that you get some relief from your injection, as someone who is going through a similar issue I really do feel your pain.

Can I ask, how long does it take to get relief from the steroid injection? I had one last Friday a for degenerate disc at L5/S1 with an annular tear, and I seem to be in quite a lot more discomfort since the injection. I'm hoping it's a case of it having to get worse for a bit before it feels better.


bad company

Original Poster:

18,483 posts

265 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Clio200pat said:
bad company said:
So greetings from Ipswich hospital where I am in bed waiting for strength to return to me leg after another facet joint injection. Hopefully this will work.
I hope that you get some relief from your injection, as someone who is going through a similar issue I really do feel your pain.

Can I ask, how long does it take to get relief from the steroid injection? I had one last Friday a for degenerate disc at L5/S1 with an annular tear, and I seem to be in quite a lot more discomfort since the injection. I'm hoping it's a case of it having to get worse for a bit before it feels better.
My problem is also L5/S1. I was horizontal on the couch or in bed unable to even tie my shoe laces until I had the first injection on 21 June. The injection worked in so far as that after I could walk albeit slowly but not ride my bike or play tennis etc. I have also been unable to drive for more than 20 minutes or so due to pain. The improvement after that injection came after 24 hours or so.

Today I had a second injection to try to improve the situation further. Too early to say if it's worked.

Good luck, it's a horrible situation.

davhill

5,263 posts

183 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Clio200pat said:
I hope that you get some relief from your injection, as someone who is going through a similar issue I really do feel your pain.

Can I ask, how long does it take to get relief from the steroid injection? I had one last Friday a for degenerate disc at L5/S1 with an annular tear, and I seem to be in quite a lot more discomfort since the injection. I'm hoping it's a case of it having to get worse for a bit before it feels better.
With mine it was a matter if an hour or so. That said, two of them triggered more pain for a day or so. Thus was especially after the second one, where the doc twisted the curved needle to verify the position was right - tall about touching a nerve!

Thing us , the injection can't go into the nerve anyway, it can only be used to bathe the affected areas. The painkilling part is lidocaine or similar while the steroid element reduces inflammation and helps the nerve heal.

Remember that any interference with a nerve track is likely to have a consequence. It's likely to improve with time until the painkilling bit wears off.

bad company

Original Poster:

18,483 posts

265 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
Well the second facet joint injection has helped. I can now walk a fair distance albeit with a limp but I wouldn't even think about playing tennis or riding my bike which I did before I had the problem.

One bonus is that I can now drive my car for a reasonable distance / time. Before the second injection it got too painful after 20 minutes or so. Thankfully I have an automatic as I don't think my left leg would be too good with a clutch pedal yet.

fatboy b

9,492 posts

215 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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bad company said:
Well the second facet joint injection has helped. I can now walk a fair distance albeit with a limp but I wouldn't even think about playing tennis or riding my bike which I did before I had the problem.

One bonus is that I can now drive my car for a reasonable distance / time. Before the second injection it got too painful after 20 minutes or so. Thankfully I have an automatic as I don't think my left leg would be too good with a clutch pedal yet.
Kinda puts my slipped disc in perspective. I've not had any disabling issues at all, other than occasional fk - that hurts if I bend down sometimes.

bad company

Original Poster:

18,483 posts

265 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
fatboy b said:
Kinda puts my slipped disc in perspective. I've not had any disabling issues at all, other than occasional fk - that hurts if I bend down sometimes.
Be very very careful, that's how mine started. If I were you I would try to avoid lifting anything heavy and start doing regular 'core muscle' exercises. These help to protect the vulnerable area.

Probably worth seeing a physiotherapist or doing Pilates.

Good luck.

fatboy b

9,492 posts

215 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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bad company said:
fatboy b said:
Kinda puts my slipped disc in perspective. I've not had any disabling issues at all, other than occasional fk - that hurts if I bend down sometimes.
Be very very careful, that's how mine started. If I were you I would try to avoid lifting anything heavy and start doing regular 'core muscle' exercises. These help to protect the vulnerable area.

Probably worth seeing a physiotherapist or doing Pilates.

Good luck.
Yep - doing core strength exercises. It does appear to be on the mend, and heavy lifting is out.

Johnny

9,652 posts

283 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
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I had a herniated L5/S1 disc for years.

Finally had Spinal Fusion in March 2013. Best thing I ever did.

Any questions, fire away.