Rehab for alcohol

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pits

Original Poster:

6,423 posts

189 months

Wednesday 13th July 2016
quotequote all
I think this is the right place for this.
Need some help with my best mate, I'll try keep it concise.
Always liked a drink, has ever since I've known him, we used to have big drinking sessions about 10 years ago, I grew out of it, he hasn't.

It's now at a point where he is at dependency levels, I have to admit it was a poor effort on my own behalf not spotting it sooner, and for the past few months I've been trying to help him.

So,
He drinks st loads, few cans of Stella, copious amounts of vodka.
His relationship with his misses has broken down, he's never there as he is always doing something, then gets hammered, this has gone on for a long time, she's tried to help him, she's bent over backwards for him, not so much allowing him to drink but, she wants him to be there sometime during the week for food, a chat, but of TV, go to bed together, he just wants to drink.

Got 4 kids, oldest 6, she rightfully doesn't want him around them when he is drinking or drink, she has said that if he can spend time with them sober, he can then go up to his workshop do what he wants after, just don't get slaughtered, now he rarely comes into the house.

She's had to kick him out, so he now lives in the caravan in their paddock, she's tried hard to get him to speak to her about it, he passes out.

I've tried hard to speak to him and get a nonchalant attitude from him being fine, he's under control when he isn't.

I will obviously defend him (to a degree) he can be an amazing dad, he works hard and does put in a shift, but his misses and kids are lonely, she knows that she is at breaking point and walking away from it all, but the drink doesn't let him see this.

He doesn't go to his GP meetings anymore, he doesn't talk about it anymore, he just wants to work and drink.

Now I can't see their family split up, she doesn't want, I know sober he wouldn't, he's in a proper hole now though, everything he owns is broken, his world is falling apart, the only way out he sees is more drink, which pushes him further away, leading to more depression and drink, I know being kicked out must hurt, and he was caught swigging a bottle of vodka at 4pm the other day.

She's at her wits end, as am I, I spent a few hours with her earlier, she cried most of the time, we can't do anymore, we appreciate that kicking him out doesn't help him, but there's 4 kids to think of here, the only thing I've got left is to give him the bking of his life, and I've bit my tongue for so long I don't know how much longer I can keep biting it for, bking him won't help at all.

He needs rehab, but everything we say is in one ear out the other, what the hell can I do? I've even toyed the idea of picking him up for an evening and going to an AA meeting, but if I get him there, will he go in? Or just get pissed off?

I just don't know what to do anymore and need some help

davhill

5,263 posts

183 months

Thursday 14th July 2016
quotequote all
Speaking from the viewpoint of seeing a 12 - year marriage to an alcoholic woman torpedoed after 10 years I can advise a little.

It's particularly difficult when the alcohol user won't accept that there's dependency. You're bang on in realising bullying won't help one iota.

In desperation, I eventually found local support. Al-anon is rather like AA light. It's for the friends and families of alcoholics. I went once a week for two years. It was daunting at first but being among folk who are in or have been in exactly the same boat is very, very helpful.
The meeting last 90 minutes and are 100% confidential. It isn't a religious thing. You're belief is up to you...I used my usual one...fate.

The meetings open with a theme or subject, then, it's about sharing. There's no crosstalk allowed and the like - minded can chat after the meeting. It's self-supporting and you just put what you can afford in the tin.

Sometimes, there'd be an 'open meeting' where current or former alcoholics would reveal their stories. They tended to be very nervous initially, until they realised it's a meeting, not a trial. Some brought their partners or a relative.

Well worth a Google.

I also received invaluable support over the months from another quarter. The local Alcohol and Drug Advisory Service gave me counselling and support - it has a drop-in service. My area (county) begins with 'C' so I went to CADAS. Again, Google will help.

Remember that there are no quick fixes and an alcoholic can't be forced into anything. The control is theirs and remains so.

HTH

uber

855 posts

169 months

Friday 15th July 2016
quotequote all
If the family can afford it residential rehab is the best way to deal with the issue. You will often find some kind of intervention can help get the ball rolling with many rehabs having a dedicated councillor who will visit the family

pits

Original Poster:

6,423 posts

189 months

Friday 15th July 2016
quotequote all
Very helpful actually, see he is aware he has a dependency, I know he kind of wants to stop but at the same time he also stuck with the shakes when he doesn't drink.
I rang him yesterday, had a chat and offered to go to an AA meeting with him, wasn't keen to start with and I thought that maybe I had brought him around and he would ring me back later on in the evening to discuss it..... still waiting

There's one Monday that I am going to try and drag him to.


Not sure in home rehab would really work for him, he has too many distractions, the only way it would work is to ratchet strap him to a bed and let him sweat it out.

grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Friday 15th July 2016
quotequote all
pits said:
... the only way it would work is to ratchet strap him to a bed and let him sweat it out.
You'll kill him.

Probably Al-Anon for the wife, and maybe yourself.

For him - whatever it is has got to be his decision. The chances are there is something / are some things that he simply cannot face sober. Obviously he isn't fixing it drunk, but he cannot see another solution. AA may work but it is a bit "churchy". There are non-religious ones too. But he has to go voluntarily, and it isn't a quick fix - it's all about hearing others in the same boat, what put them there, and what they want to do about it. Repeat until those thoughts happen in his head.

pits

Original Poster:

6,423 posts

189 months

Friday 15th July 2016
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
pits said:
... the only way it would work is to ratchet strap him to a bed and let him sweat it out.
You'll kill him.

Probably Al-Anon for the wife, and maybe yourself.

For him - whatever it is has got to be his decision. The chances are there is something / are some things that he simply cannot face sober. Obviously he isn't fixing it drunk, but he cannot see another solution. AA may work but it is a bit "churchy". There are non-religious ones too. But he has to go voluntarily, and it isn't a quick fix - it's all about hearing others in the same boat, what put them there, and what they want to do about it. Repeat until those thoughts happen in his head.
More than likely would kill him.
This is the thing that annoys me, I am very logical in how I think. What I see is an amazing partner, 4 beautiful kids, a lovely cottage and I don't get why he would drink over that.

I've asked, but never pushed about why he drinks, I appreciate that everything that you think is natural to do, force him to meetings, force him to stop, bking him will do him no good whatsoever, just make him worse.

I'll support his misses if she leaves him, I fully respect her choice in that if she can't make it work she can't it work, 4 kids and a life of hell isn't a life at all and she needs to make that choice for herself and I will understand.

Just driving me up the wall, I don't get close to people I am a very singular entity, I am not big into personal contact and whatnot, but it's different with him, I have so much time for him I would happily get lost on an island with him as I know he will somehow save us, I have an undying trust for him but it hurts to see him going this way and I am losing that trust, I like constants and to me he is a constant, I'd drop anything for him and he would drop anything for me, but I don't see why, whatever I do doesn't help, and it infuriates me, I wouldn't go mental on him, I just want him to stop, I've done a fair bit, I don't talk about beer around him and I don't take him out to the pub anymore, I raise a comment if he drinks when I am around.

I know the AA meetings are a bit religious and we couldn't care less about religion, but Christ I'd consider giving God a handjob around the back of a bowling alley if it would help him out.

Drink, she's a cruel mistress weeping

therevday

374 posts

208 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
I am ready for the flack!!!!getmecoat Get him on Jeremy kyle! He will get the best possible help and all for free!! I know there is a big stigma with this but needs must!! I have seen so many people fixed on his show and unfortunately the NHS is over run to help.It would be his wake up call!! I spent too many years with an alcoholic girlfriend who ended up marrying another alcoholic and he died of liver failure.It is a terrible terrible waste of life.i hope you take drastic steps to cure your friend for his sake and his familiescry

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
pits said:
Not sure in home rehab would really work for him, he has too many distractions, the only way it would work is to ratchet strap him to a bed and let him sweat it out.
you will kill him

alcohol detox is one of the most clinically risky detoxes to do which is why it has to be done in carefully managed settings, the average Mental Health Unit won't touch it - most of the NHS managed de-toxes are involuntary ( as the person is either in criminal detention or has had a serious incident and will require inpatient care ) and take place in Acute general Hospital settings

DukeDickson

4,721 posts

212 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
mph1977 said:
you will kill him

alcohol detox is one of the most clinically risky detoxes to do which is why it has to be done in carefully managed settings, the average Mental Health Unit won't touch it - most of the NHS managed de-toxes are involuntary ( as the person is either in criminal detention or has had a serious incident and will require inpatient care ) and take place in Acute general Hospital settings
Surely that depends on what is 'stloads'?

1-2 bottles of spirits a day, more than likely, equivalent of 8-10 pints a day to little or nothing probably won't kill someone. Might be uncomfortable, but would it really be deadly?

grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
DukeDickson said:
Surely that depends on what is 'stloads'?

1-2 bottles of spirits a day, more than likely, equivalent of 8-10 pints a day to little or nothing probably won't kill someone. Might be uncomfortable, but would it really be deadly?
Your maths is way out. A bottle of vodka is 30 units is 10-15 pints. And yes, dropping to zero from that could well kill him.

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
DukeDickson said:
Surely that depends on what is 'stloads'?

1-2 bottles of spirits a day, more than likely, equivalent of 8-10 pints a day to little or nothing probably won't kill someone. Might be uncomfortable, but would it really be deadly?
and your PIN with which professional regulator ?

Edited by mph1977 on Saturday 16th July 14:14

Tiggsy

10,261 posts

251 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
Having watched an ex-wife throw away 20 year marriage/house/business/4 kids to drink non-stop (and tried EVERY thing in the book to stop her).....My only advice is don't waste your efforts unless they are actively seeking your help.

Should have got out years ago - NOTHING will make her stop until she's dead....probably before she hits 45

iwantagta

1,323 posts

144 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
Sadly if the person isnt willing to sort themselves out there is nothing you can do.
I was best man at my mates wedding. 11 months later he had lost his wife, house, car (drink driving).
He is now living in a caravan at the back of an industrial estate.
He went to a bit of counselling. A bit of Dr's etc. People tried to help get him a residential thing but "the forms were too long".
Overall there is nothing you can do.
Its depressing but unless they want to help themselves you are on a losing trip.
They will lie constantly. "Havent had a drink today", "doing well" its bks.
Still see him ocassionally but its very difficult.

davhill

5,263 posts

183 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
iwantagta said:
Sadly if the person isnt willing to sort themselves out there is nothing you can do.
I was best man at my mates wedding. 11 months later he had lost his wife, house, car (drink driving).
He is now living in a caravan at the back of an industrial estate.
He went to a bit of counselling. A bit of Dr's etc. People tried to help get him a residential thing but "the forms were too long".
Overall there is nothing you can do.
Its depressing but unless they want to help themselves you are on a losing trip.
They will lie constantly. "Havent had a drink today", "doing well" its bks.
Still see him ocassionally but its very difficult.
At Al-anon meets, these two surface regularly...

Jekyll & Hyde

You can tell when an alcoholic is lying. Their lips move.

Stu-nph26

1,984 posts

104 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
I feel your pain OP it's an awful situation to find yourself in. My mate is in a similar position works very hard for a living has 2 kids, lives with his girfriend but he can't knock the drink on the head. We used to go out regularly in our teens, early twenties and drink heavily 3 or 4 times a week. I sometimes think I may have played a part in his dependency, now I hardly drink. He really is at rock bottom at the moment, I've researched local AA meets and will do my best to take him on Monday. He has admitted his problem and I think he's finally willing to get help - I just hope it helps not that it makes any difference but he genuinely is one of the nicest lads I know when sober.

Has anyone had any experience of alcoholics overcoming their dependency and living a regular life?

iwantagta

1,323 posts

144 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
Stu-nph26 said:
I feel your pain OP it's an awful situation to find yourself in. My mate is in a similar position works very hard for a living has 2 kids, lives with his girfriend but he can't knock the drink on the head. We used to go out regularly in our teens, early twenties and drink heavily 3 or 4 times a week. I sometimes think I may have played a part in his dependency, now I hardly drink. He really is at rock bottom at the moment, I've researched local AA meets and will do my best to take him on Monday. He has admitted his problem and I think he's finally willing to get help - I just hope it helps not that it makes any difference but he genuinely is one of the nicest lads I know when sober.

Has anyone had any experience of alcoholics overcoming their dependency and living a regular life?
My alcoholics mate alcoholic dad! He doesnt drink now, cost him his first marriage but lives a normal life now, relationship etc etc.
Also a different friends mum - seriously ill in hospital but on the mend now.
It can be done - but its when they really want it.

Same with me and my mate, if it wasnt you it would have been someone else drinking with him. I felt the same way but eventually accepted it wasnt my fault.

My experience is that alcoholics will follow the path of least resistance allowing them to continue their life for as long as possible;
Step 1 - publically acknowledge issue - buys you a few weeks
Step 2 - Got to a source of help (AA etc), still drink - buys you a few weeks
Step 3 - Mix of; Apologise, lie, deny you have an issue (usually telling different people different stories), blame others (wife exaggerating) - buys more time - back to 2.
Rinse and repeat until you burn all bridges and partner loses patience.

iwantagta

1,323 posts

144 months

Saturday 16th July 2016
quotequote all
iwantagta said:
Stu-nph26 said:
I feel your pain OP it's an awful situation to find yourself in. My mate is in a similar position works very hard for a living has 2 kids, lives with his girfriend but he can't knock the drink on the head. We used to go out regularly in our teens, early twenties and drink heavily 3 or 4 times a week. I sometimes think I may have played a part in his dependency, now I hardly drink. He really is at rock bottom at the moment, I've researched local AA meets and will do my best to take him on Monday. He has admitted his problem and I think he's finally willing to get help - I just hope it helps not that it makes any difference but he genuinely is one of the nicest lads I know when sober.

Has anyone had any experience of alcoholics overcoming their dependency and living a regular life?
My alcoholics mate alcoholic dad! He doesnt drink now, cost him his first marriage but lives a normal life now, relationship etc etc.
Also a different friends mum - seriously ill in hospital but on the mend now.
It can be done - but its when they really want it.

Same with me and my mate, if it wasnt you it would have been someone else drinking with him. I felt the same way but eventually accepted it wasnt my fault.

My experience is that alcoholics will follow the path of least resistance allowing them to continue their life for as long as possible;
Step 1 - publically acknowledge issue - buys you a few weeks
Step 2 - Got to a source of help (AA etc), still drink - buys you a few weeks
Step 3 - Mix of; Apologise, lie, deny you have an issue (usually telling different people different stories), blame others (wife exaggerating) - buys more time - back to 2.
Rinse and repeat until you burn all bridges and partner loses patience.
Although having been so negative - its actually 2/3 alcoholics are recoveries for me - but both were older people recoveries.

Stu-nph26

1,984 posts

104 months

Sunday 17th July 2016
quotequote all
Thanks gta I'll do all I can to help but I'm fully aware it's down to him and him alone to change.

oceanview

1,511 posts

130 months

Sunday 17th July 2016
quotequote all
iwantagta said:
Sadly if the person isnt willing to sort themselves out there is nothing you can do.
I was best man at my mates wedding. 11 months later he had lost his wife, house, car (drink driving).
He is now living in a caravan at the back of an industrial estate.
He went to a bit of counselling. A bit of Dr's etc. People tried to help get him a residential thing but "the forms were too long".
Overall there is nothing you can do.
Its depressing but unless they want to help themselves you are on a losing trip.
They will lie constantly. "Havent had a drink today", "doing well" its bks.
Still see him ocassionally but its very difficult.
That's the thing- you have to WANT to stop. I speak from experience. Two years ago I began drinking heavily ( again, due to anxiety about stuff) but this time I couldn't stop. After drinking non-stop for a week, my family booked me into the Priory. Didn't work though as it was "just" the de-tox admittance ( no councelling)Still cost £3000 for 5 days though!!
Anyway, I carried on as soon as I got back ( not as much) but ended up getting arrested for drink-driving 6 weeks later after hitting a tree, down a country lane one morning.

The shock/shame of all this made me carry on drinking for another couple of months ( also got de-moted at work and lost £7000 in salary when I was already only just on the national average.

The thing that made me stop was seeing the desperation in my family and there 100% desire to help me ( its no exaggeration to say, I wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for them). Also, i am a bit of a health/fitness fanatic so i could see the booze destroying me both mentally and physically.

Gradually gave up- was hard to begin with but after about 2 weeks, it was fine. I now rarely drink ( it just doesn't agree with me) and have got my fitness and good health back.

So, your friend can come back from this but he HAS to want to give up the booze so much. Until then it isn't going to happen.

( edited to add- to give you an idea of how desperate a drinker is when it runs out, i stayed at my parents during my bad spell and one early morning, i climbed out of the window and tried breaking into the shed which i knew i could find some wine they'd hidden from me.

Desperate, sad times that i wouldn't wish on any one.


Edited by oceanview on Sunday 17th July 12:37

jonah35

3,940 posts

156 months

Sunday 17th July 2016
quotequote all
pits said:
I think this is the right place for this.
Need some help with my best mate, I'll try keep it concise.
Always liked a drink, has ever since I've known him, we used to have big drinking sessions about 10 years ago, I grew out of it, he hasn't.

It's now at a point where he is at dependency levels, I have to admit it was a poor effort on my own behalf not spotting it sooner, and for the past few months I've been trying to help him.

So,
He drinks st loads, few cans of Stella, copious amounts of vodka.
His relationship with his misses has broken down, he's never there as he is always doing something, then gets hammered, this has gone on for a long time, she's tried to help him, she's bent over backwards for him, not so much allowing him to drink but, she wants him to be there sometime during the week for food, a chat, but of TV, go to bed together, he just wants to drink.

Got 4 kids, oldest 6, she rightfully doesn't want him around them when he is drinking or drink, she has said that if he can spend time with them sober, he can then go up to his workshop do what he wants after, just don't get slaughtered, now he rarely comes into the house.

She's had to kick him out, so he now lives in the caravan in their paddock, she's tried hard to get him to speak to her about it, he passes out.

I've tried hard to speak to him and get a nonchalant attitude from him being fine, he's under control when he isn't.

I will obviously defend him (to a degree) he can be an amazing dad, he works hard and does put in a shift, but his misses and kids are lonely, she knows that she is at breaking point and walking away from it all, but the drink doesn't let him see this.

He doesn't go to his GP meetings anymore, he doesn't talk about it anymore, he just wants to work and drink.

Now I can't see their family split up, she doesn't want, I know sober he wouldn't, he's in a proper hole now though, everything he owns is broken, his world is falling apart, the only way out he sees is more drink, which pushes him further away, leading to more depression and drink, I know being kicked out must hurt, and he was caught swigging a bottle of vodka at 4pm the other day.

She's at her wits end, as am I, I spent a few hours with her earlier, she cried most of the time, we can't do anymore, we appreciate that kicking him out doesn't help him, but there's 4 kids to think of here, the only thing I've got left is to give him the bking of his life, and I've bit my tongue for so long I don't know how much longer I can keep biting it for, bking him won't help at all.

He needs rehab, but everything we say is in one ear out the other, what the hell can I do? I've even toyed the idea of picking him up for an evening and going to an AA meeting, but if I get him there, will he go in? Or just get pissed off?

I just don't know what to do anymore and need some help
Precisely why does he need rehab? He may just be sick of his wife and he is still working and drinking a fair bit?

What, exactly, are the reasons?

Has he been aggressive? Is he constantly drunk and drink driving? Is he being arrested for drunken things?