Losing fat / gaining muscle

[Hoofy]

otolith said:

Hoofy said:

otolith said:

Shameful confession regarding mirrors and clothes - I am a little ashamed of how vain I feel I am becoming as a result of this process.

I am not ashamed at all of looking in the mirror and approving of my physique. Nothing else I do is based on vanity. I don't preen myself every morning for hours upon end like some "metrosexuals" do.

REPENT, SINNER!

I can't help but flex my abs every time I pass the mirror. My gf approves which doesn't help matters.

[otolith]

chris watton said:

Belly fat can be a very stubborn bugger! I have a bit of belly fat still, even though the rest of me is seemingly now free from any fat (veins showing on chest and thighs). I have resigned myself to the fact that I would have to go on too much of a calorie deficit for at least 2 months to clear the last vestiges of visible fat - and it really doesn't bother me that much now. I am stronger (once injuries heal completely..), fitter and healthier than I have ever been, and am happy with a 30" waist. I cannot justify becoming too obsessed with just one body part and putting the rest at risk via voluntary malnutrition..

I'm still about 22% fat, so a fair bit to go before I can expect to be rid of the gut completely. It's just slightly comical the way it's disappearing from everywhere else, without the training I think I would end up looking like a pot bellied famine victim.

[Hoofy]

otolith said:

I'm still about 22% fat, so a fair bit to go before I can expect to be rid of the gut completely. It's just slightly comical the way it's disappearing from everywhere else, without the training I think I would end up looking like a pot bellied famine victim.

Yep.

[Autopilot]

johnwilliams77 said:

Kiwi LS2 said:

Have to agree with this. In the last two years I have dropped from 21% BF to 12%, scale weight has stayed exactly the same. No gym, just breaststroke 3x a week 45min sessions and walking 40 miles per week (dogs!). Clean eating, calorie deficit 5 days a week minimum and drinking 3 days a month on average bar holidays. Carrying noticeably a lot more muscle in chest, shoulders, arms and legs. Waist now 28" from 32" (5'8").

Only concession to weights is dumbell curls with a single freeweight after swimming, 3 reps per arm time under tension until failure.

Macros? I eat approx 300grams of carbs a day, and around 120grams of protein.

Best thing is no injuries.

I am more surprised that 21% bf was a waist of 32". I am 5 9/10 and had a bf of 19% a couple of months ago and waist was a good bit higher. We are all different I guess. Well done on your progress. I bet you're proud of yourself.

I was more surprised that the quoted figure of 12% bodyfat doesn't come with a six pack! I guess I hold bodyfat differently, but at 14% - 15% mine are very visible and at 10% to 12% I look shredded.

[popeyewhite]

Autopilot said:

johnwilliams77 said:

Kiwi LS2 said:

Have to agree with this. In the last two years I have dropped from 21% BF to 12%, scale weight has stayed exactly the same. No gym, just breaststroke 3x a week 45min sessions and walking 40 miles per week (dogs!). Clean eating, calorie deficit 5 days a week minimum and drinking 3 days a month on average bar holidays. Carrying noticeably a lot more muscle in chest, shoulders, arms and legs. Waist now 28" from 32" (5'8").

Only concession to weights is dumbell curls with a single freeweight after swimming, 3 reps per arm time under tension until failure.

Macros? I eat approx 300grams of carbs a day, and around 120grams of protein.

Best thing is no injuries.

I am more surprised that 21% bf was a waist of 32". I am 5 9/10 and had a bf of 19% a couple of months ago and waist was a good bit higher. We are all different I guess. Well done on your progress. I bet you're proud of yourself.

I was more surprised that the quoted figure of 12% bodyfat doesn't come with a six pack! I guess I hold bodyfat differently, but at 14% - 15% mine are very visible and at 10% to 12% I look shredded.

I need to be sub 10% before my abs are clearly visible. A lot of bbers I know need to be <8% bf before they're happy with their abs.

[Autopilot]

popeyewhite said:

Autopilot said:

I do understand some people's argument that you can gain lean tissue and lose bodyfat at the same time, but like you've pointed out, these are the exception not the rule.

That's incorrect, are you suggesting that some people's basic bodily functions differ from others? I think possibly you're looking from a bber's perspective, where losing bf and gaining lean tissue is actually harder because a bber normally already has low bf. However for a beginner it should be far easier to achieve. It's very basic stuff this and really is as simple as 1.creating a calorie deficit, 2.doing cardiorespiratory exercise, 3.performing the right combination of resistance exercises to inspire muscle hypertrophy, and 4. making sure your macros are correct. Most important is to remember all exercises are performed whilst on a calorie deficit - this is why most fail as they find it just too demanding.

You haven't read all my posts now have you

Autopilot said:

I'll go a little against the grain here and say you'll be hard pushed to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time

Autopilot said:

If I want to build size, I eat more calories, it's as simple as that. While I have pretty good genetics as far as adding muscle goes, I also add fat as well

Autopilot said:

When it comes to losing the body fat, the calories get lower, carbs get lower and cardio goes up

Autopilot said:

Could I build muscle while doing this? No chance, my diet doesn't support it, even small weights start to feel heavy and I just can't train at the same intensity. I can categorically state that if I'm cutting, I lose weight, muscle and overall size

Stay awake at the back

My comment you quoted wasn't from a BB'ers perspective, but from a newbies who hasn't really trained before.

Autopilot said:

I do understand some people's argument that you can gain lean tissue and lose bodyfat at the same time, but like you've pointed out, these are the exception not the rule. You can shock your body in to growth by never having stepped in to a gym before, working your butt off and your body being dazed and confused as to what the hells happened

I said this not because of the additional effort a lean, muscular person has to go to to get results, but the fact that when somebody starts training they'll have a short period of time where their body just kind of responds to everything. This is of course short lived and a proper diet comes in to play.

[Autopilot]

popeyewhite said:

I need to be sub 10% before my abs are clearly visible. A lot of bbers I know need to be <8% bf before they're happy with their abs.

I know a few who can be in competition shape on the day and still be critiqued for having lower back fat! I don't think many BB'er are truly happy with their conditioning when they see what the rest of the line up looks like

[mcelliott]

popeyewhite said:

Autopilot said:

johnwilliams77 said:

Kiwi LS2 said:

Have to agree with this. In the last two years I have dropped from 21% BF to 12%, scale weight has stayed exactly the same. No gym, just breaststroke 3x a week 45min sessions and walking 40 miles per week (dogs!). Clean eating, calorie deficit 5 days a week minimum and drinking 3 days a month on average bar holidays. Carrying noticeably a lot more muscle in chest, shoulders, arms and legs. Waist now 28" from 32" (5'8").

Only concession to weights is dumbell curls with a single freeweight after swimming, 3 reps per arm time under tension until failure.

Macros? I eat approx 300grams of carbs a day, and around 120grams of protein.

Best thing is no injuries.

I am more surprised that 21% bf was a waist of 32". I am 5 9/10 and had a bf of 19% a couple of months ago and waist was a good bit higher. We are all different I guess. Well done on your progress. I bet you're proud of yourself.

I was more surprised that the quoted figure of 12% bodyfat doesn't come with a six pack! I guess I hold bodyfat differently, but at 14% - 15% mine are very visible and at 10% to 12% I look shredded.

I need to be sub 10% before my abs are clearly visible. A lot of bbers I know need to be <8% bf before they're happy with their abs.

Also a lot of people bullst about their BF percentage.

Not so long ago there was a guy on the health thread reckoned he was 5%...

[chris watton]

mcelliott said:

Also a lot of people bullst about their BF percentage.

Not so long ago there was a guy on the health thread reckoned he was 5%...

5%! What was he, desiccated?

[mcelliott]

chris watton said:

mcelliott said:

Also a lot of people bullst about their BF percentage.

Not so long ago there was a guy on the health thread reckoned he was 5%...

5%! What was he, desiccated?

He he, nowhere near - he even posted a picture of himself bless him, just to confirm his claims were total bks. Never understood the fixation with low body fat measurements - totally irrelevant to a person's wellbeing.

[LordGrover]

Hoofy said:

I remember ordinarychap (where is he these days??) telling me that the body isn't very good at doing two things at once effectively so I've stuck with that. I've read about carb cycling etc but it's hard work and the results are incredibly slow.

He was still about fairly recently, but under a new account/username. Can't remember what it is now though. D'oh!

[Hoofy]

LordGrover said:

Hoofy said:

I remember ordinarychap (where is he these days??) telling me that the body isn't very good at doing two things at once effectively so I've stuck with that. I've read about carb cycling etc but it's hard work and the results are incredibly slow.

He was still about fairly recently, but under a new account/username. Can't remember what it is now though. D'oh!

[popeyewhite]

chris watton said:

mcelliott said:

Also a lot of people bullst about their BF percentage.

Not so long ago there was a guy on the health thread reckoned he was 5%...

5%! What was he, desiccated?

[Kiwi LS2]

Autopilot said:

I was more surprised that the quoted figure of 12% bodyfat doesn't come with a six pack! I guess I hold bodyfat differently, but at 14% - 15% mine are very visible and at 10% to 12% I look shredded.

That's unreal, you must be a genetic freak Seems most people don't get clearly visible abs until they hit the 10-12% range. The top four of mine are visible, and good oblique definition, but I reckon I still have a kilo or so of fat to shift (overall) I think before the six pack will really show. Vascularity is really prominent all over my legs and arms (missus reckons I look a bit freaky...), and to a lesser degree chest, shoulders, and obliques. At 14-15% I was still looking a bit blobby!

[chris watton]

Kiwi LS2 said:

That's unreal, you must be a genetic freak Seems most people don't get clearly visible abs until they hit the 10-12% range. The top four of mine are visible, and good oblique definition, but I reckon I still have a kilo or so of fat to shift (overall) I think before the six pack will really show. Vascularity is really prominent all over my legs and arms (missus reckons I look a bit freaky...), and to a lesser degree chest, shoulders, and obliques. At 14-15% I was still looking a bit blobby!

The top 4 of my abs are very visible too. However, I have come to the conclusion that trying to get rid of that last kg or so of lower belly fat just is not worth the effort. The only thing I can do is to keep training hard and keeping my diet on point.

Last month I did a little experiment, where I ate the same meals every day without any deviation for 5 weeks, and was 2000 calories per day. I did get down to 70.3kg, but I still had those last vestiges of fat staring back at me. I did feel slightly weaker when training (especially the heavy compounds), and decided that 5 weeks of that was enough. I upped my diet to 2200-2300 calories per day and feel much better for it. I realised that my main aims are not virtually zero body fat, I have no designs on entering competitions and am not a beach lover anyway, but muscle-building and strength. You cannot have the latter two if I am continually obsessed with ultra-low body fat percentages.

I think that to get rid of that last kg of stubborn fat (for me at least, a 49 year old male), it would take 12 weeks of very clean eating at a slight deficit with absolutely no deviations from that diet. Even then I bet it would still be there staring back, mocking me!

If I am still doing this in three years time, which means over five years of training and healthy diet under my belt, perhaps that would be the time to re-visit BF% - but it may have been resolved by then, anyway. There are certainly no quick and easy fixes, not naturally anyway, unless I want to further prolong muscle and strength gain. At least, from my (relatively limited) experience.

[didelydoo]

I seem to have abs up to pretty high BF levels, though I never check the actual measurement.... got them just now, and i'm pretty fat.

Lowest I've been was maybe 6-8% BF, which was just before competing. Felt st, but looked pretty good- will be getting down lower next year, which I'm quite looking forward to, in a masochistic kind of way.....

[cliffe_mafia]

This came up on my youtube feed and it reminded me of this thread. Jeff says losing fat / gaining muscle
is possible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3AG-oCXTE

[TurboHatchback]

An obvious point on bodyfat percentages: it's a percentage not an absolute figure. A 120kg bodybuilder at 8% BF is carrying the same absolute amount of fat (9.6kg) as a 60kg small guy at 16% (9.6kg), the visual result of this will obviously be different.

Back to the topic at hand, my personal experience suggests that it is possible to slowly build muscle and lose fat together. I find it more efficient however to focus on maintaining muscle whilst quickly losing fat then on building muscle whilst not worrying too much about it ('cutting' and 'bulking' if you will) though to a restrained degree.

Correct training is vital for maintaining the muscle during a cut, muscle is metabolically costly so the body is not inclined to hold onto it in a starvation condition as it would survive longer by losing the muscle first and eking out the fat reserves afterward unless some stimulus is present to tell the body it needs that muscle (training). Keeping the weights heavy seems key, on a diet your glycogen, ATP, blood sugar etc will likely be low and slower to replenish, consequently you'll likely find that you can manage less volume at a given weight than you could before. The muscle needs the heavy load to provide the stimulus to grow (or at least not shrink) so I go for keeping the weight heavy and doing the reps I can manage rather than reducing the weight to keep the reps high, if necessary do more sets and increase the rest periods to account for the slower recovery.

Disclaimer: I'm not in any way qualified in the subject, just a guy who lifts and does a lot of reading/youtubing on the subject.