Do you take any supplements ?

[ORD]

Back on topic, I think it is extremely difficult to get enough protein from your diet even while trying to maintain weight, let alone lose it.

If you work on the basis of 1 gram per pound of lean mass (i.e. everything but fat), that is a hell of a lot of protein to get from animal and vegetable proteins. You realistically need a supplement like whey. I increased my protein intake a couple of months ago and now have almost zero soreness after any weight sessions (including heavy leg sessions). It is pretty amazing what a difference it makes.

[otolith]

The body fat measurements from scales are of debatable accuracy. Mine were pretty damn close to the DEXA scan I had on the same day, but whether they are still correct or not I don't know. I've paid for a set of three, so I'll get the second scan done soon, I think.

[ORD]

They are useful (if you test under the same conditions each time) for showing a trend, but I would not trust then to be accurate in an absolute sense. They are less likely to be accurate at very high and very low bf percentages.

[TurboHatchback]

Yes, some:

• Creatine (low dosage, maybe 2g per day and only on training days).
• Fish oil tablets. I was recommended these when I was having some joint issues and since I've started taking them I've had no lasting injuries or pain. Make of that what you will.
• Protein. I have Whey, Casein and a mixed protein. I use them rarely and only as a substitute if I can't get enough food protein in a particular meal.
• Electrolyte tablets. I was having some problems with cramping and poor recovery this summer during the hot weather, I was recommended these. They seem to work.

I'm planning to get some vitamin D tablets for this winter as I'm fairly sure I am deficient in the winter months.

[Mothersruin]

Multivit and Omega 3 oils in the evening, calcium/magnesium/vitD in the morning.

I usually have a tub of protein knocking about so I can fix a shake if I feel I'm not getting enough. I try to eat as much solid stuff as I can though. Just as a back up.

[J4CKO]

ORD said:

J4CKO said:

otolith said:

Down to 11.5st, from 15st at Xmas. Still got some fat round the middle to dispose of, but focusing more on gaining some lean mass now - a month of serious calorie restriction and cardio would take a big chunk out of what is left, which I will do at some point, but it's not much fun.

Jesus, thats good going, I want to get to 15 stone, currently 17 st 5.

When I calculate my BMI, my ideal weight at 6ft is apparently between

9st 10lbs and 13st 1lbs

Short of disease, not sure how that would be possible !

My scales say I am 29 percent lard (not sure how accurate but sounds plausible) , 35 percent muscle, so if I get my Bodyfat down to 15 percent that is about 2 stone 5 away, i.e. my 15 stone aim, would have to go lower than 15 percent BF to go lower, or lose muscle, to get to the maximum weight the BMI says of 13.1 I would need to be at 5 percent Bodyfat !

The one positive I take from this is I have more muscle than fat.

Unless you are very broad and/or strong, I think your scales are being very kind. I think your muscle mass is being overstated and your bodyfat understated.

To give you a comparison, I am slightly shorter than you (5'11) and am about 11% bf at 12 stone 8 pounds (80kg). I am a normal kinda shape (neither broad nor slight).

I am generally regarded as having pretty broad shoulders and have fairly large thighs from cycling, been training for a bit now and put a fair bit of muscle on.

Can only really go on what the scales say, definitely need to lose weight, working on it, dont think I could get anywhere near 13 stone though, 14 maybe, 15 more realistic. 29 percent body fat is enough to be going on with, even if the scales are not that accurate they should show I am going in the right direction.

Would be interesting to know what my actual shoulder width is, average is apparently about 17 to 18 inches.

Edited by J4CKO on Monday 26th September 16:48

[okgo]

Cycling won't have built much muscle I doubt, more likely just shaped your legs, but you won't have gained a load of KG's through extra muscle.

I'm classed as quite a big cyclist, 6ft about 81kg, calipered myself at about 12-13% BF, I have large thighs, and quite broad shoulders too - it should be fairly easy for any man of 6ft to get down to 13-14 stone.

[ORD]

J4CKO said:

I am generally regarded as having pretty broad shoulders and have fairly large thighs from cycling, been training for a bit now and put a fair bit of muscle on.

Can only really go on what the scales say, definitely need to lose weight, working on it, dont think I could get anywhere near 13 stone though, 14 maybe, 15 more realistic, will the

Would be interesting to know what my actual shoulder width is, average is apparently about 17 to 18 inches.

Not picking on you at all, Jacko. Getting down to 14 from 17 stone would be bloody good work!

My point is just that men generally massively overestimate their actual and potential lean muscle mass. It is possible, just about, that your leanish weight (say 10-12% bodyfat) would be 14-15 stone. But you would be quite exceptionally well-built. I think that is approximately the maximum muscle mass for non-steroid using bodybuilders at your height.

[otolith]

This was my analysis of my own BMI and body composition earlier this year. The thing that stands out for me is that a BMI of 25 is just into "overweight", and a BMI of 22.5 is "ideal" - but I would say that a body fat percentage of 15% is not by any means overweight and of 6% is some way below "ideal" for a normal person.

otolith said:

OK, I have just calculated what I "should" weigh according to BMI.

I'm 5'6. That gives;

BMI of 20 - bottom of healthy : 56kg
BMI of 22.5 - middle of healthy : 63kg
BMI of 25 - top of healthy : 70kg

I recently had a DEXA scan. My body composition was;

Total Mass : 76.7kg
Fat : 17kg
Lean tissue : 56.4kg
Bone mineral : 3.3kg

Body fat percentage (overall) 22.3%
Body fat percentage (excluding bones) 23.3%

I'm not sure which of those two figures is comparable to the numbers estimated with calipers/displacement/BEI, but I'm going to assume it's total fat mass / total body mass.

On that basis, for a BMI of 25, maximum "healthy" weight, I would weigh 70kg and have a body fat percentage of 15%.

For a BMI of 22.5, middle of the healthy range for my height, I would weigh 63kg and have a body fat percentage of 6%.

For a BMI of 20, bottom of the healthy range, I would weigh 56kg, have 0% body fat, and would have had to lose either 3kg of lean tissue or my skeleton.

I think that's quite interesting - we all know that BMI can be a crock of st, but we also know that most people pointing out that elite sportsmen are overweight by BMI are not international rugby players or body builders but fat people. I wouldn't say I was particularly muscular. I have (apparently) very good bone density and I have short legs and a long torso. Still, I wouldn't have expected the BMI guidelines to be so far out for me.

[J4CKO]

ORD said:

J4CKO said:

I am generally regarded as having pretty broad shoulders and have fairly large thighs from cycling, been training for a bit now and put a fair bit of muscle on.

Can only really go on what the scales say, definitely need to lose weight, working on it, dont think I could get anywhere near 13 stone though, 14 maybe, 15 more realistic, will the

Would be interesting to know what my actual shoulder width is, average is apparently about 17 to 18 inches.

Not picking on you at all, Jacko. Getting down to 14 from 17 stone would be bloody good work!

My point is just that men generally massively overestimate their actual and potential lean muscle mass. It is possible, just about, that your leanish weight (say 10-12% bodyfat) would be 14-15 stone. But you would be quite exceptionally well-built. I think that is approximately the maximum muscle mass for non-steroid using bodybuilders at your height.

Ok, fair dos, will see how I feel when I get down to 15, and take it from there, am not exceptionally well built, fairly muscular now but am guessing there must be another stone or more hiding in fat then !

Not aiming to go lower than 15 percent though, well if I get there I will be ecstatic.

Edited by J4CKO on Monday 26th September 19:08

[HappyMidget]

J4CKO said:

Ok, fiar dos, will see how I feel when I get down to 15, and take it from there, am not exceptionally well built, fairly muscular now but am guessing there must be another stone or more hiding in fat then !

These guys are all under 15 stone (v low bf, but you get the gist) http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2014-arnold-classi...

[J4CKO]

HappyMidget said:

J4CKO said:

Ok, fiar dos, will see how I feel when I get down to 15, and take it from there, am not exceptionally well built, fairly muscular now but am guessing there must be another stone or more hiding in fat then !

These guys are all under 15 stone (v low bf, but you get the gist) http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2014-arnold-classi...

Bet they dont float as well as I do

What percentage BF are they, 5 ish ?

[HappyMidget]

J4CKO said:

Bet they dont float as well as I do

What percentage BF are they, 5 ish ?

3-4% at most. I am at about 5% but at under 9 stone it is nothing much.

[J4CKO]

Was interested so measured shoulder width, wife said 23 inches, I reckon it was nearer 22, measuring from the widest part of the deltoid as per the guide I found, I must have put some width on as I have found myself brushing things anticipating being marginally narrower.

So, fairly broad, but still a fat knacker

Edited by J4CKO on Monday 26th September 22:23

[J4CKO]

Was interested so measured shoulder width, wife said 23 inches, I reckon it was nearer 22, measuring from the widest part of the deltoid as per the guide I found, I must have put some width on as I have found myself brushing things anticipating being marginally narrower.

So, fairly broad, but still a fat knacker

Edited by J4CKO on Tuesday 27th September 19:01

[ORD]

Fairly broad? That's the width of a small house! An inch of that might be fat, but you'll have some impressive shoulders when you shift that weight.

[smiffy180]

ORD said:

Back on topic, I think it is extremely difficult to get enough protein from your diet even while trying to maintain weight, let alone lose it.

If you work on the basis of 1 gram per pound of lean mass (i.e. everything but fat), that is a hell of a lot of protein to get from animal and vegetable proteins. You realistically need a supplement like whey. I increased my protein intake a couple of months ago and now have almost zero soreness after any weight sessions (including heavy leg sessions). It is pretty amazing what a difference it makes.

Depends.
500g chicken is 150g protein or there abouts.
Split that over 3/4 meals and that's (imo) a small amount of meat per meal.

Trying to get 300g protein a day through food alone is quite a task though

[ORD]

That's the problem, though - your diet becomes about getting high protein but boring food at every meal.
Much easier to just eat normally and supplement with 50g of protein.

[J4CKO]

ORD said:

Fairly broad? That's the width of a small house! An inch of that might be fat, but you'll have some impressive shoulders when you shift that weight.

The average is 18 1/2 inches apparently, even allowing for poor measurement and fat I am broader than average but its only slight mitigation, still well overweight, would need to be four foot wide for it to make all that much difference

Its coming off though, another pound today, 17 st 4, my aim is to be at 15 by July next year when we go away for a week, well under four pounds a month so very possible, pound a week is nice and easy to remember, need to be 17.3 by next Tuesday.

Edited by J4CKO on Tuesday 27th September 09:28

[smiffy180]

ORD said:

That's the problem, though - your diet becomes about getting high protein but boring food at every meal.
Much easier to just eat normally and supplement with 50g of protein.

I agree.
I'm playing with slow cooked meals currently. Really enjoy slow cooked curry currently